Safe standing - Herald article

[GreenThing]

Whatever.

The thrust behind GT's point was that various sliding door moments led to the terrible waste of life.

It certain wasn't 'only' the lack of seats.

The people taking decision that day and since, have no idea of football and its fans.

That’s right. Hillsborough is the reason why we can’t stand at football, but terracing wasn’t the cause of the problem. Overcrowding with no means to escape was the problem.

With the short fences and technology which allows only scanned tickets to open the turnstile means that the risk of overcrowding will be virtually nil and if overcrowding does occur, there is means of escape. There is no reason why terracing cannot be re-introduced.

 

[Shankster]

I think we’re all agreed

 

[SWTT]

Doesn't even need to be "safe" standing. There's nothing unsafe about a terrace. Plenty of away days see us stood on them.

 

[jimsing]

Whatever.

The thrust behind GT's point was that various sliding door moments led to the terrible waste of life.

It certain wasn't 'only' the lack of seats.

The people taking decision that day and since, have no idea of football and its fans.

That’s right. Hillsborough is the reason why we can’t stand at football, but terracing wasn’t the cause of the problem. Overcrowding with no means to escape was the problem.

With the short fences and technology which allows only scanned tickets to open the turnstile means that the risk of overcrowding will be virtually nil and if overcrowding does occur, there is means of escape. There is no reason why terracing cannot be re-introduced.

Don't confuse safe standing with terracing.

I don't think that terracing, as we know it, will ever be re-introduced. Any new ground will not be able to re-introduce it. It will have to be either all seater or safe seating or any combination.

Terracing remains in the lower divisions, and it will be up to the authorities to decide whether it should be withdrawn completely and replaced with safe standing or not.

No doubt, unless finance can be found by the FA/FL, the clubs will plead poverty and the situation for the lower clubs will remain as it is now.

However, it probably should be either sit at a seat or stand at the safe standing, but there will be those that will still want to stand at a seat, giving all sorts of reasons why they should still be able to do so.

Safe standing will be introduced by those Clubs that wish to increase their ground capacity. The safe standing takes up less room that seating, and Clubs will readily introduce it if they can make money out of having it.

Regardless, I suspect that those wishing to stand at their seats will still do so, giving all sorts of explanations as to why they should be allowed to do so, the FA saying that they should not, and the poor old football club stuck in the middle, and being unable to deal with the numbers that stand, just as they don't do now.

When all seater stadia came in, the larger clubs lost a lot of money because their capacities reduced drastically. Argyle went from 42,000 to less than half that figure.

So there will be some enthusiasm from those Clubs that can see a profit, even after the expense of putting safe seating in.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

Doesn't even need to be "safe" standing. There's nothing unsafe about a terrace. Plenty of away days see us stood on them.

Who says that terracing is unsafe? The legislation certainly doesn't.

 

[Leo's Grandad]

Why mot make the back 3-4 rows of each block standing like the Demport area - the problem then goes away ?
Anyone who wants to sit just doesn't choose to sit in the back 3-4 rows.
That way you'd maybe get a bit more atmosphere around the Lyndhurst as it's pretty dead at the minute.

 

[GreenThing]

Doesn't even need to be "safe" standing. There's nothing unsafe about a terrace. Plenty of away days see us stood on them.

Who says that terracing is unsafe? The legislation certainly doesn't.

The fact terracing was removed as a result of Hillsborough implies just that. If terracing is safe, what was the reasoning for all seater stadiums?

 

[Presto]

Safe standing areas in those clubs where it is permitted requires installation of specially designed seats. It is not a question of people just standing in the exisiting seating designs. The monitoring of the current issue is extremely inconsistent across the country.

The problem at HP is caused by the relocation of the former grandstand season ticket holders having to be relocated to the Lyndhurst or Devonport end. The average age of the grandstand ticket hoders is probably around 65+ whilst the Devonport end about 30. So those who have a temporary forced move for a season suddenly find themselves surrounded by people 30 + years younger who want to stand regardless of the fact those around them cannot stand or do not wish to and therefore have an obscured view.

In reality the issues of safe standing and the current situation at HP are quite separate. One is a national debate requiring additional investment by some clubs into infrastructure and the other relates to the selfish attitude of a minor group of supporters who could not careless about how their behaviour impacts on others.

 

[Pogleswoody]

Doesn't even need to be "safe" standing. There's nothing unsafe about a terrace. Plenty of away days see us stood on them.

Who says that terracing is unsafe? The legislation certainly doesn't.

The fact terracing was removed as a result of Hillsborough implies just that. If terracing is safe, what was the reasoning for all seater stadiums?

:think: Maggie Thatcher's hatred of the working man? :think:

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

Doesn't even need to be "safe" standing. There's nothing unsafe about a terrace. Plenty of away days see us stood on them.

Who says that terracing is unsafe? The legislation certainly doesn't.

The fact terracing was removed as a result of Hillsborough implies just that. If terracing is safe, what was the reasoning for all seater stadiums?

The enquiry determined that all seated stadiums are SAFER than those with terraces and that this should be the direction that football should take.

There was never any implication that terraces were unsafe.

 

[SWTT]

Doesn't even need to be "safe" standing. There's nothing unsafe about a terrace. Plenty of away days see us stood on them.

Who says that terracing is unsafe? The legislation certainly doesn't.

The fact terracing was removed as a result of Hillsborough implies just that. If terracing is safe, what was the reasoning for all seater stadiums?

Likewise the common use of the phrase "safe" standing, when all that's being referred to is rail seating.

 

[Green 1886]

It was the fencing agh the front that was the safety issue, plus poor ticketing allocation and co-ordination of turnstiles

Brentford - pushing for the premiership still have terracing behind each goal

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

It was the fencing agh the front that was the safety issue, plus poor ticketing allocation and co-ordination of turnstiles

Brentford - pushing for the premiership still have terracing behind each goal

Of course, terracing is allowed in the Premiership..... because it is Rugby

 

[Bristol Rich]

Doesn't even need to be "safe" standing. There's nothing unsafe about a terrace. Plenty of away days see us stood on them.

Who says that terracing is unsafe? The legislation certainly doesn't.

The fact terracing was removed as a result of Hillsborough implies just that. If terracing is safe, what was the reasoning for all seater stadiums?

A knee jerk reaction to a terrible tragedy and decisions made by people who had never stood at football or sat with the fans anyway.

 

[Bristol Rich]

Safe standing areas in those clubs where it is permitted requires installation of specially designed seats. It is not a question of people just standing in the exisiting seating designs. The monitoring of the current issue is extremely inconsistent across the country.

The problem at HP is caused by the relocation of the former grandstand season ticket holders having to be relocated to the Lyndhurst or Devonport end. The average age of the grandstand ticket hoders is probably around 65+ whilst the Devonport end about 30. So those who have a temporary forced move for a season suddenly find themselves surrounded by people 30 + years younger who want to stand regardless of the fact those around them cannot stand or do not wish to and therefore have an obscured view.

In reality the issues of safe standing and the current situation at HP are quite separate. One is a national debate requiring additional investment by some clubs into infrastructure and the other relates to the selfish attitude of a minor group of supporters who could not careless about how their behaviour impacts on others.

It was selfish to move into the last 3 rows of block 14 and demand people comform to what you want. The stadium is at least a 3rd empty so there are plenty of places to sit.