Fletcher to stay or go(managerial position)

[Tugboat]

I think Carl Fletcher has the makings of an excellent manager. We were near to extinction and recovery will take time and quality football teams are not built overnight but Fletcher is on the right lines, developing a team playing proper, passing football and given time and support, which I am sure he will get (James Brent doesn't strike me as a person who loses his nerve), he will succeed.

It's disappointing, although sadly understandable, that so many posters are unable to deal with a couple of poor results.

I appreciate your pro Fletch and he does have some attributes but you say it's disappointing calling for his head after "a couple of poor results"?

From taking over to present day have a look at the stats. Whilst I take into consideration that the back end of last season wasn't his team and fully appreciate the circumstances he was doing his job in I'm willing to look at start of preseason to present day.

He's had his time and I'm not willing to go through another dire, disspointing, under performing relegation scrap dressed up in 'young hungry manager trying our his vision' bollocks.

I want it done the right way. Something that's not been done for over 5 years.

Get this flipping club back up on its feet and lets starting having some bollocks for getting results. Failure is still accepted at home park and until someone gets in with a firm head and shakes this club from head to toe we aren't going anywhere.

It starts by the sacking of Fletch and Romain.

I'm sorry but it starts with the backing of Fletcher and his staff. Hiring and firing managers is rarely the answer as has proved to be the case at this club over the decades. Fletcher's achievement last season in keeping us in the league from the position from which he stared was immense, he now has a different, more difficult challenge in building a team playing good, passing football capable of moving up the leagues. I find the early signs very encouraging and I am gratified he, and the owner, are committed to playing football in the right manner. It's far too early to give up on him yet. It goes without saying we need more quality in the squad and I think that is an area where the inexperience at the club (not just the manager) has shown but I'm sure they have the intelligence to realise that and learn. Two or three quality additions to the squad along with the development of the younger players and the team generally will see a massive improvement in results. All it takes is time and patience.

I agree with most of what you say Esmer but you say at the end that 2 or 3 quality additions and generally we will see a massive improvement in results. This is what 99% of the fanbase was saying at the end of last season, 2 or 3 quality additions in key areas, 2 up front and 1 in midfield. Five months later and we are still saying the same. A surfeit of lightweight wingers, a surfeit of mediocre strikers, an unnecessary 3rd goalkeeper signed and no sign of these key additions. That is what frustrates me personally. Griffiths might still come off, Madjo has only played more than 15 games for 1 of his multitude of clubs in his 8 year career and that was only 26 games so there is obviously a problem with him other than his football ability and turning up an hour late twice already for us says it all. Lowry is another gamble, not wanted by Chesterfield or anyone else due to being injury prone and has not kicked a ball in anger for 2 months to date. I just think we could have saved a lot of money with Gorman, Guttieri, Gilmartin, Lennox and the like and signed one penetrating specialist winger who would have been a week in week out pick for the first team and a key midfielder or striker instead. I want Fletcher to turn it round but a loss at Barnet and the fans will really start to turn. I think we should at least give him 20 to 23 games as we are still unlikely to be one of the worst 2 teams and get relegated but if things are getting no better a new man has to come in with time to prune the squad, add some quality in January and build for next season.

I'm in full agreement that player recruitment is an area were improvement is needed but all the blame must not be laid at Fletcher's door, we have an inexperienced board and an inexperienced Chief Executive who would be heavily involved with the process. However, I see no benefit in playing the blame game, those within the club who have responsibility in this area (including Carl Fletcher) need to learn from their past performance and up their game.

Well why didn't they say that!!!

Instead of 'competitive budget' and 'looking to compete to win with entertaining football' pish they should have just come clean and say 'we are a club in complete transition and each person in there particular management level job are complete novices so we plan to find our feet for the next 5 years in L2 and build hotels and ice rinks to further our knowledge in the game'.

 

[esmer]

I think Carl Fletcher has the makings of an excellent manager. We were near to extinction and recovery will take time and quality football teams are not built overnight but Fletcher is on the right lines, developing a team playing proper, passing football and given time and support, which I am sure he will get (James Brent doesn't strike me as a person who loses his nerve), he will succeed.

It's disappointing, although sadly understandable, that so many posters are unable to deal with a couple of poor results.

I appreciate your pro Fletch and he does have some attributes but you say it's disappointing calling for his head after "a couple of poor results"?

From taking over to present day have a look at the stats. Whilst I take into consideration that the back end of last season wasn't his team and fully appreciate the circumstances he was doing his job in I'm willing to look at start of preseason to present day.

He's had his time and I'm not willing to go through another dire, disspointing, under performing relegation scrap dressed up in 'young hungry manager trying our his vision' bollocks.

I want it done the right way. Something that's not been done for over 5 years.

Get this flipping club back up on its feet and lets starting having some bollocks for getting results. Failure is still accepted at home park and until someone gets in with a firm head and shakes this club from head to toe we aren't going anywhere.

It starts by the sacking of Fletch and Romain.

I'm sorry but it starts with the backing of Fletcher and his staff. Hiring and firing managers is rarely the answer as has proved to be the case at this club over the decades. Fletcher's achievement last season in keeping us in the league from the position from which he stared was immense, he now has a different, more difficult challenge in building a team playing good, passing football capable of moving up the leagues. I find the early signs very encouraging and I am gratified he, and the owner, are committed to playing football in the right manner. It's far too early to give up on him yet. It goes without saying we need more quality in the squad and I think that is an area where the inexperience at the club (not just the manager) has shown but I'm sure they have the intelligence to realise that and learn. Two or three quality additions to the squad along with the development of the younger players and the team generally will see a massive improvement in results. All it takes is time and patience.

I agree with most of what you say Esmer but you say at the end that 2 or 3 quality additions and generally we will see a massive improvement in results. This is what 99% of the fanbase was saying at the end of last season, 2 or 3 quality additions in key areas, 2 up front and 1 in midfield. Five months later and we are still saying the same. A surfeit of lightweight wingers, a surfeit of mediocre strikers, an unnecessary 3rd goalkeeper signed and no sign of these key additions. That is what frustrates me personally. Griffiths might still come off, Madjo has only played more than 15 games for 1 of his multitude of clubs in his 8 year career and that was only 26 games so there is obviously a problem with him other than his football ability and turning up an hour late twice already for us says it all. Lowry is another gamble, not wanted by Chesterfield or anyone else due to being injury prone and has not kicked a ball in anger for 2 months to date. I just think we could have saved a lot of money with Gorman, Guttieri, Gilmartin, Lennox and the like and signed one penetrating specialist winger who would have been a week in week out pick for the first team and a key midfielder or striker instead. I want Fletcher to turn it round but a loss at Barnet and the fans will really start to turn. I think we should at least give him 20 to 23 games as we are still unlikely to be one of the worst 2 teams and get relegated but if things are getting no better a new man has to come in with time to prune the squad, add some quality in January and build for next season.

I'm in full agreement that player recruitment is an area were improvement is needed but all the blame must not be laid at Fletcher's door, we have an inexperienced board and an inexperienced Chief Executive who would be heavily involved with the process. However, I see no benefit in playing the blame game, those within the club who have responsibility in this area (including Carl Fletcher) need to learn from their past performance and up their game.

Well why didn't they say that!!!

Instead of 'competitive budget' and 'looking to compete to win with entertaining football' pish they should have just come clean and say 'we are a club in complete transition and each person in there particular management level job are complete novices so we plan to find our feet for the next 5 years in L2 and build hotels and ice rinks to further our knowledge in the game'.

That's not exactly what I'm saying. My point is that there is a lack of experience in the club which has had, more than likely, an adverse effect on player recruitment. However, they are able people and will learn from experience, hopefully well within five years.

 

[Tugboat]

I think Carl Fletcher has the makings of an excellent manager. We were near to extinction and recovery will take time and quality football teams are not built overnight but Fletcher is on the right lines, developing a team playing proper, passing football and given time and support, which I am sure he will get (James Brent doesn't strike me as a person who loses his nerve), he will succeed.

It's disappointing, although sadly understandable, that so many posters are unable to deal with a couple of poor results.

I appreciate your pro Fletch and he does have some attributes but you say it's disappointing calling for his head after "a couple of poor results"?

From taking over to present day have a look at the stats. Whilst I take into consideration that the back end of last season wasn't his team and fully appreciate the circumstances he was doing his job in I'm willing to look at start of preseason to present day.

He's had his time and I'm not willing to go through another dire, disspointing, under performing relegation scrap dressed up in 'young hungry manager trying our his vision' bollocks.

I want it done the right way. Something that's not been done for over 5 years.

Get this flipping club back up on its feet and lets starting having some bollocks for getting results. Failure is still accepted at home park and until someone gets in with a firm head and shakes this club from head to toe we aren't going anywhere.

It starts by the sacking of Fletch and Romain.

I'm sorry but it starts with the backing of Fletcher and his staff. Hiring and firing managers is rarely the answer as has proved to be the case at this club over the decades. Fletcher's achievement last season in keeping us in the league from the position from which he stared was immense, he now has a different, more difficult challenge in building a team playing good, passing football capable of moving up the leagues. I find the early signs very encouraging and I am gratified he, and the owner, are committed to playing football in the right manner. It's far too early to give up on him yet. It goes without saying we need more quality in the squad and I think that is an area where the inexperience at the club (not just the manager) has shown but I'm sure they have the intelligence to realise that and learn. Two or three quality additions to the squad along with the development of the younger players and the team generally will see a massive improvement in results. All it takes is time and patience.

I agree with most of what you say Esmer but you say at the end that 2 or 3 quality additions and generally we will see a massive improvement in results. This is what 99% of the fanbase was saying at the end of last season, 2 or 3 quality additions in key areas, 2 up front and 1 in midfield. Five months later and we are still saying the same. A surfeit of lightweight wingers, a surfeit of mediocre strikers, an unnecessary 3rd goalkeeper signed and no sign of these key additions. That is what frustrates me personally. Griffiths might still come off, Madjo has only played more than 15 games for 1 of his multitude of clubs in his 8 year career and that was only 26 games so there is obviously a problem with him other than his football ability and turning up an hour late twice already for us says it all. Lowry is another gamble, not wanted by Chesterfield or anyone else due to being injury prone and has not kicked a ball in anger for 2 months to date. I just think we could have saved a lot of money with Gorman, Guttieri, Gilmartin, Lennox and the like and signed one penetrating specialist winger who would have been a week in week out pick for the first team and a key midfielder or striker instead. I want Fletcher to turn it round but a loss at Barnet and the fans will really start to turn. I think we should at least give him 20 to 23 games as we are still unlikely to be one of the worst 2 teams and get relegated but if things are getting no better a new man has to come in with time to prune the squad, add some quality in January and build for next season.

I'm in full agreement that player recruitment is an area were improvement is needed but all the blame must not be laid at Fletcher's door, we have an inexperienced board and an inexperienced Chief Executive who would be heavily involved with the process. However, I see no benefit in playing the blame game, those within the club who have responsibility in this area (including Carl Fletcher) need to learn from their past performance and up their game.

Well why didn't they say that!!!

Instead of 'competitive budget' and 'looking to compete to win with entertaining football' pish they should have just come clean and say 'we are a club in complete transition and each person in there particular management level job are complete novices so we plan to find our feet for the next 5 years in L2 and build hotels and ice rinks to further our knowledge in the game'.

That's not exactly what I'm saying. My point is that there is a lack of experience in the club which has had, more than likely, an adverse effect on player recruitment. However, they are able people and will learn from experience, hopefully well within five years.

But it's common sense for a guy like Brent to install some footballing experiance at the club knowing that he has absolutely no footballing knowledge. It's a recipe for concern having a Hotel businessmen owner with an ex midfielder and goalkeeper in charge with 1 coach.

The lessons can be learnt from this and I'm hoping they are. We need experiance at the club yesterday, last week, last month. I said in another thread that Fletch has tried his best and credit goes to him for giving it a go but now is the time to take a step back and be a number 2 at the club to further his understanding and education of the game.

 

[esmer]

I think Carl Fletcher has the makings of an excellent manager. We were near to extinction and recovery will take time and quality football teams are not built overnight but Fletcher is on the right lines, developing a team playing proper, passing football and given time and support, which I am sure he will get (James Brent doesn't strike me as a person who loses his nerve), he will succeed.

It's disappointing, although sadly understandable, that so many posters are unable to deal with a couple of poor results.

I appreciate your pro Fletch and he does have some attributes but you say it's disappointing calling for his head after "a couple of poor results"?

From taking over to present day have a look at the stats. Whilst I take into consideration that the back end of last season wasn't his team and fully appreciate the circumstances he was doing his job in I'm willing to look at start of preseason to present day.

He's had his time and I'm not willing to go through another dire, disspointing, under performing relegation scrap dressed up in 'young hungry manager trying our his vision' bollocks.

I want it done the right way. Something that's not been done for over 5 years.

Get this flipping club back up on its feet and lets starting having some bollocks for getting results. Failure is still accepted at home park and until someone gets in with a firm head and shakes this club from head to toe we aren't going anywhere.

It starts by the sacking of Fletch and Romain.

I'm sorry but it starts with the backing of Fletcher and his staff. Hiring and firing managers is rarely the answer as has proved to be the case at this club over the decades. Fletcher's achievement last season in keeping us in the league from the position from which he stared was immense, he now has a different, more difficult challenge in building a team playing good, passing football capable of moving up the leagues. I find the early signs very encouraging and I am gratified he, and the owner, are committed to playing football in the right manner. It's far too early to give up on him yet. It goes without saying we need more quality in the squad and I think that is an area where the inexperience at the club (not just the manager) has shown but I'm sure they have the intelligence to realise that and learn. Two or three quality additions to the squad along with the development of the younger players and the team generally will see a massive improvement in results. All it takes is time and patience.

I agree with most of what you say Esmer but you say at the end that 2 or 3 quality additions and generally we will see a massive improvement in results. This is what 99% of the fanbase was saying at the end of last season, 2 or 3 quality additions in key areas, 2 up front and 1 in midfield. Five months later and we are still saying the same. A surfeit of lightweight wingers, a surfeit of mediocre strikers, an unnecessary 3rd goalkeeper signed and no sign of these key additions. That is what frustrates me personally. Griffiths might still come off, Madjo has only played more than 15 games for 1 of his multitude of clubs in his 8 year career and that was only 26 games so there is obviously a problem with him other than his football ability and turning up an hour late twice already for us says it all. Lowry is another gamble, not wanted by Chesterfield or anyone else due to being injury prone and has not kicked a ball in anger for 2 months to date. I just think we could have saved a lot of money with Gorman, Guttieri, Gilmartin, Lennox and the like and signed one penetrating specialist winger who would have been a week in week out pick for the first team and a key midfielder or striker instead. I want Fletcher to turn it round but a loss at Barnet and the fans will really start to turn. I think we should at least give him 20 to 23 games as we are still unlikely to be one of the worst 2 teams and get relegated but if things are getting no better a new man has to come in with time to prune the squad, add some quality in January and build for next season.

I'm in full agreement that player recruitment is an area were improvement is needed but all the blame must not be laid at Fletcher's door, we have an inexperienced board and an inexperienced Chief Executive who would be heavily involved with the process. However, I see no benefit in playing the blame game, those within the club who have responsibility in this area (including Carl Fletcher) need to learn from their past performance and up their game.

Well why didn't they say that!!!

Instead of 'competitive budget' and 'looking to compete to win with entertaining football' pish they should have just come clean and say 'we are a club in complete transition and each person in there particular management level job are complete novices so we plan to find our feet for the next 5 years in L2 and build hotels and ice rinks to further our knowledge in the game'.

That's not exactly what I'm saying. My point is that there is a lack of experience in the club which has had, more than likely, an adverse effect on player recruitment. However, they are able people and will learn from experience, hopefully well within five years.

But it's common sense for a guy like Brent to install some footballing experience at the club knowing that he has absolutely no footballing knowledge. It's a recipe for concern having a Hotel businessmen owner with an ex midfielder and goalkeeper in charge with 1 coach.

The lessons can be learnt from this and I'm hoping they are. We need experience at the club yesterday, last week, last month. I said in another thread that Fletch has tried his best and credit goes to him for giving it a go but now is the time to take a step back and be a number 2 at the club to further his understanding and education of the game.

Fletcher is hugely experienced in football, it's the contracts side, dealing with agents and bottoming out deals etc.is where he is learning. But you learn from experience which I am sure he is as is, hopefully, the Chief Executive and whoever else is involved in player recruitment. Otherwise we need a Peter Ridsdale type (you know what I mean) in the administration position.

 

[NovaGreen469]

Stay.

Esmer talks a lot of sense and has covered the reasons why Fletch shouldn't go

 

[monkeywrench]

Esmer does talk a lot of sense, and I'm very grateful for it. This site is thoroughly depressing at the moment.

 

[Cerbera]

Go. He doesn't demonstrate any managerial qualities. He's out of his depth and it shows.

 

[X Isle]

Esmer does talk a lot of sense, and I'm very grateful for it. This site is thoroughly depressing at the moment.

Really?, frankly I'm amazed the 'go' count is only just over half presently. Far from finding that depressing I find it hugely reassuring that many people are thinking for themselves and restraining themselves from knee-jerking.

 

[Kevin Dacombe]

Maybe because this is nowhere near the biggest crisis we have had in recent years and people maybe realise it?

 

[X Isle]

Maybe because this is nowhere near the biggest crisis we have had in recent years and people maybe realise it?

Maybe. But, and I'm playing devils advocate here, there's an opposing school of thought that says HAVING been though all that it's time we had better. Tolerance to continuing bad times would therefore be lower.

 

[monkeywrench]

Esmer does talk a lot of sense, and I'm very grateful for it. This site is thoroughly depressing at the moment.

Really?, frankly I'm amazed the 'go' count is only just over half presently. Far from finding that depressing I find it hugely reassuring that many people are thinking for themselves and restraining themselves from knee-jerking.

I see the point you're making X and know what you mean. It's just that I'm sick of the Fletch out threads, who next threads, etc etc after every defeat or draw. Expectation is one of the biggest problems. It's depressing that fans boo/slag off players intent on keeping possession.
There is virtually nothing positive, or even realistic on here.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not enjoying it at the minute either but I can see what fletch is trying to achieve and that's going to take time. At times we have played some great stuff, and at times some awful stuff. The faults have been highlighted and acknowledged in Es and Tuggers to-ing and fro-ing and I have nothing to add to the views of Es which I agree with wholeheartedly.

I just hope JB sticks with him and I don't care if I'm in the minority.

 

[Sporting Lipson]

We do appear to readily accept that poor is all we deserve, ambition just a word and quality is what other teams bring.

Fletch is a rookie, already stated on this thread. The question is do we allow him to cut his teeth at our club, he couldn't go any lower I hear you cry.
I still believe (and have said so on many similar threads) we do not have enough football management experience from top to bottom.
The answer is surely the appointment of a mentor for a whole season and yes I know we have little or no money. I worry that if another relegation fight begins Fletch and his team wont have a plan B or C. Lets be honest plan A is bloody dodgy!

 

[jerryatricjanner]

Esmer is right about the experienced type being needed to help Fletcher but wish he hadn't mentioned the R word. There are plenty of good football administrators who just get on with the job quietly as Dunford did. They don't have to be the R type of person in everyone's face, seeking publicity and credit for everything they do as well as being a first rate snake. Agreed there are several reasons why we should persisit a little longer painful as it is results wise at present but there has to come a point when enough is enough. For me that would be mid December if things have not picked up.

 

[Womble]

I'd give him a bit longer, but we desperatley need to show some ambition. We need a serious promotion challenge next season, and I dont see any seeds of that this season.

If experience is such a problem, why dont we have an experienced assistant or scout? Or Director of Football?

 

[Ave IT]

I vote stay – and agree with much of Esmer’s post. We’ve had enough turmoil over the last few years and sacking yet another manager after just a quarter of the season doesn’t seem the best way to achieve the sort of stability we need. How long would we give the next one? January? February? No – give CF ‘til then at least and if things are not showing real signs of improving AND there is a realistic prospect of a good replacement then maybe – but not now.