FA Youth Cup Third Round (Argyle win on penalties)

[Biggs]

I know a lot of the academy/development lads. I would never see any short, I would never see them out without a drink

Can you explain this one for us, Mark? With the unbelievably fine margins involved in making it as a professional footballer, I'm not sure alcohol is going to help...

I wouldn't give a single ha'penny of money or a single millisecond of time to improving the status of the academy.

That's quite a jarring statement. If only because when youth players are sold on, a higher status academy means more money coming back into the club. Which can only be a good thing, no?

And presumably a higher status academy means better facilities and better coaches. Or is that not important because...

The talent would be the same, for me that isn't the issue

?

Again, the margins involved in making it as a professional footballer at the relatively very high level of League One are infinitesimally tiny. It involves luck, incredibly hard work and determination, and coaching and superb facilities can only help. Unless you're a Maradona or Messi type, pure talent is actually quite a small part of the whole footballer package. Tactical awareness, mentality, speed of thought and countless other attributes need to be up to speed with or surpassing the core talent. Again, coaches and facilities help all of those things.

 

[MarkMatthews]

Not seeing their glass empty was a figure of speech to show I have time and respect for them and wouldn’t mind parting with money for them on an individual level. I wasn’t suggesting they come on one of my four day benders! Perhaps I should have said I wouldn’t drive past them by the side of the road instead.

Yes it would mean more money coming in, but to sell them on they would have to catch the eye in our first team and to do that they would need to be afforded opportunities in the first team which this manager, in my opinion, hasn’t shown anything to suggest he will do that. The prospect of management selling on our best young talent to get money to blob on the Ciftcis and Blissetts of the world isn’t going to make me donate money or time to upgrade the academy. If people want to do it good luck to them, it would be a noble thing to do and well intentioned with an intended outcome I would support. I just don’t think it would make much of a difference until management show they would’ve want to make use of it.

 

[Ted]

Does anybody have any stats on how many youth players each team will play in the first team on average?

Some clubs, like Exeter are FORCED into playing more as they cannot afford better players. We can, and I'd rather see us compete than play the youngsters. Sorry.

Well we aren’t getting either at the moment (really competing with a shed load of decent signings aren’t we? Money really well spent.)

Footballers just don’t grow an trees either, if every club took that attitude then there wouldn’t be any “better” players to buy.

I'd argue we are competing. I think if we put youngsters in the team now we'd be in a far worse position.

Argyle will forever be at a disadvantage with their kids because they are limited in options. It is easier for other clubs to find local clubs lower down the pyramid to take them on - at Argyle there is little quality nearby where they can really develop.

Football is fickle game. Managers are rarely at clubs for 5+ years - what incentive does a manager have to gamble results to focus on youth development?

I admire your passion for the youth setup Mark but you are very rose tinted, it's like an ex-lover who can't let go.

 

[Biggs]

Fair enough, though obviously it goes without saying they shouldn't be drinking much (if at all) if they're serious about making it. I'm sure they don't.

What about the other points? You're sure that their talent will remain the same regardless of academy status. Would you agree that pure talent is just the first step in making it as a pro. Tactical awareness, mentality, fitness, determination, speed of thought and simply knowing what to do in a professional man's game of football is what will make or break them.

Therefore Jake Miller's tweet about not giving any credit to the club or coaches is incredibly harsh. How did the team beat City if they weren't coached and prepared with all these factors in mind? How did they win without a gameplan and tactics? How were they even on the pitch if Argyle hadn't given them the platform to do so?

 

[The Night Riveria]

I don't know if it has been mentioned here already, but there was a good article in the Sunday Telegraph yesterday about our victory over Manchester City(calling it the biggest cup shock in any FA competitiion this year), and how we are constantly fighting to hold onto our youngsters, with especially strong competition from Southampton and Chelsea in our region.I believe our youth coaches do deserve credit for organising a team ,that on the night manaaged to repel everything Man City could throw at them for 120 minutes

 

[philmeboots]

I know a lot of the academy/development lads. I would never see any short, I would never see them out without a drink and would go out of my way to do them a favour. I support them all, individually and as a team.

That said I wouldn't give a single ha'penny of money or a single millisecond of time to improving the status of the academy. The talent would be the same, for me that isn't the issue. Until management show they will support it, it's a lost cause in my opinion. (That criticism of management, is of Adams, is of Sheridan and also the board for appointing those men to shape the club in their vision.) until they start showing willing it's just time and money down the drain.

ETA the link to Jake Miller's tweet.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jakeymiller_ ... 3787695104

Don't think that its ever a waste of money to bring on youngsters. Few may make it however and and Allen, Harvey, Rooney etc simply weren't good enough, after all they have now found their natural level with Truro. I would agree that selling our better youths, Stephens etc was done too early but that possibly was more forced through the financial predicament of the club at that stage a few years back rather than through policy. I would certainly support the youths going forward and subject to the weather look forward to cheering them on in Burnley. Ryan Law, Sangster and Cooper look the best of this squad and let's hope they have a future in the game at a higher level.

 

[Kentishgreen]

I appreciate that the current transfer system makes it far easier for managers to sign tried and tested older players rather than rely on youth. But that’s not exactly the manager’s fault. Additionally fans want to see a winning team more than anything else and this less likely to be achieved with three or four eighteen year olds in the team unless they are of exceptional quality. Do we have young strikers as good as Mike Bickle, Derek Rickard or Micky Evans? Do we have a midfielder as good as Norman Piper or Jonny Hore? Do we have any wingers as good as Alan Rogers or Brian Johnson? Do we have any defenders as good as George Foster? I’m sure if we did the manager would be bloody delighted. I think the manager may have played Ben Purrington and then sold him for a couple of hundred grand but perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me.

 

[SWTT]

Pressure on managers makes it tough for any manager to bring through young players. That's at all levels. Ranieri wins the Premier League in one of the greatest against the odds achievements in sports history, but that's not enough to retain his job following a bit of struggle the following year.

Why would a manager risk his job in the short term footballing world for the sake of bringing through the next set of long term talent for the club? It's a much safer game to go with experience.

Experience costs though and Exeter for example largely can't afford it. Their business model depends upon them bringing through talent to sell on. Winning is the lesser priority. As long as they're not facing relegation in League Two they'll be happy doing that.

There's a balance to be found though. Adams definitely has assurances from this board that they have faith in him to lead the club to safety in League One. His first two seasons he was under pressure to get us out of the division. Youngsters didn't come into it. League Two was told to naff off, that was the bottom line.

With a lack of resources Adams tried to warn us that this season was about consolidation in League One. Bringing through the youth again is bottom of the priority list. We need to stay up, simple as. Maybe in a season or two we'll be sitting happy in the middle of League One and afford the luxury of being able to bring through a kid without our impatient fickle fan base calling for the gaffers head.

I mean he's already given Purrington a run of games and sold him on to a then Championship club. He gave Rooney an opportunity and he's been able to get another contract as a pro in Ireland. Fletcher this season has had a good introduction to the pro game and may now benefit from a decent loan move for the 2nd half of the season.

Yeah they're not flooding our starting line up at the moment, but it's a risk we can't afford. End of to be honest.

 

[Old Gunner]

Pressure on managers makes it tough for any manager to bring through young players. That's at all levels. Ranieri wins the Premier League in one of the greatest against the odds achievements in sports history, but that's not enough to retain his job following a bit of struggle the following year.

Why would a manager risk his job in the short term footballing world for the sake of bringing through the next set of long term talent for the club? It's a much safer game to go with experience.

Experience costs though and Exeter for example largely can't afford it. Their business model depends upon them bringing through talent to sell on. Winning is the lesser priority. As long as they're not facing relegation in League Two they'll be happy doing that.

There's a balance to be found though. Adams definitely has assurances from this board that they have faith in him to lead the club to safety in League One. His first two seasons he was under pressure to get us out of the division. Youngsters didn't come into it. League Two was told to naff off, that was the bottom line.

With a lack of resources Adams tried to warn us that this season was about consolidation in League One. Bringing through the youth again is bottom of the priority list. We need to stay up, simple as. Maybe in a season or two we'll be sitting happy in the middle of League One and afford the luxury of being able to bring through a kid without our impatient fickle fan base calling for the gaffers head.

I mean he's already given Purrington a run of games and sold him on to a then Championship club. He gave Rooney an opportunity and he's been able to get another contract as a pro in Ireland. Fletcher this season has had a good introduction to the pro game and may now benefit from a decent loan move for the 2nd half of the season.

Yeah they're not flooding our starting line up at the moment, but it's a risk we can't afford. End of to be honest.

Good post. Hits the nail on the head.

 

[HC Green]

Slightly annoyed with the date for the Burnley game as it is scheduled for Friday 5th January with a 7pm KO. As we are home on the Saturday to Bury I can’t see many like me who would have gone to support the U18s being able to make it now.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

Burnley's Under 18s might be a bit rusty. Their last match was beating Leeds in the previous round on 27th November. They have since had three games postponed and now have nothing scheduled until they meet Argyle on 3rd January.

 

[ealinggreen]

Hope we win.I still loathe Burnley at every level.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

Hope we win.I still loathe Burnley at every level.

:shock:

You must have a reason I guess.

 

[German Shepherd]

Sky can stick their Super Sundays....I've got The Super Weekend, Youth Team Friday night with a chippy tea & lashings of gravy followed by Argyle Ladies & a nice Sunday carvery, beauty job !

 

[ealinggreen]

Yep