FA Youth Cup Third Round (Argyle win on penalties)

[SWTT]

Pressure on managers makes it tough for any manager to bring through young players. That's at all levels. Ranieri wins the Premier League in one of the greatest against the odds achievements in sports history, but that's not enough to retain his job following a bit of struggle the following year.

Why would a manager risk his job in the short term footballing world for the sake of bringing through the next set of long term talent for the club? It's a much safer game to go with experience.

Experience costs though and Exeter for example largely can't afford it. Their business model depends upon them bringing through talent to sell on. Winning is the lesser priority. As long as they're not facing relegation in League Two they'll be happy doing that.

There's a balance to be found though. Adams definitely has assurances from this board that they have faith in him to lead the club to safety in League One. His first two seasons he was under pressure to get us out of the division. Youngsters didn't come into it. League Two was told to naff off, that was the bottom line.

With a lack of resources Adams tried to warn us that this season was about consolidation in League One. Bringing through the youth again is bottom of the priority list. We need to stay up, simple as. Maybe in a season or two we'll be sitting happy in the middle of League One and afford the luxury of being able to bring through a kid without our impatient fickle fan base calling for the gaffers head.

I mean he's already given Purrington a run of games and sold him on to a then Championship club. He gave Rooney an opportunity and he's been able to get another contract as a pro in Ireland. Fletcher this season has had a good introduction to the pro game and may now benefit from a decent loan move for the 2nd half of the season.

Yeah they're not flooding our starting line up at the moment, but it's a risk we can't afford. End of to be honest.

Funny how we see things differently! The Purrington saga in my eyes was that (to his credit Sheridan gave Purrington his chance) after injury he then overlooked him, offered him a contract then left. The first thing Adams did was sign a 30 year old journeyman LB, ceromonially strip him of the number 3 shirt, reluctantly give him a run of games when there was very little choice, then make him feel unwanted when an offer come in to better himself! Personally I think that is really poor man management.

As for not having time and defending him for being in a results based business, well that is just laughable from the Adams apologists! He has got to be on one the most sercure contracts in terms of length, in the football league. And if he was being judged on results alone, he should have been sacked a couple of months back.

Your last sentence sums up why he can't just take a gamble on youngsters. This club's fanbase isn't content with League Two, which is why it's not been the right time to bring through youngsters while survival, then promotion was the only aim. League One is more our ground, but we need to find our footing and build the foundations of a capable League One side to support any youngsters that compliment it.

Find middling ground in the division, promote youngsters without manager feeling pressure of relegation or promotion demands from fans?

Or chuck them in, risk sacrificing promotion/league position, fans get angry, sack the manager, kids lost their shot.

Youth development is longer term than, ah happy 18th Timmy here's your captains armband. You should probably realise that given your enthusiasm for it all.

 

[MarkMatthews]

So Jake Miller doesn’t have an axe to grind then?

He turned down an offer from Argyle, Argyle didn’t release him. Part of his reasoning was seeing Development contracts were going nowhere (he was proved right, when not one made as much as a single substitute appearance in a first team competition before being released) and didn’t want to waste any more time with Argyle, already thinking he was two years behind his mates in life as it was. Since he jacked it in he has played for two top sides in the SWPL, got qualified in an area he is passionate about and set up his own business, I’ve not used his services but I follow his social media business accounts and judging by how professional it looks and knowing his character, I think he will make a really good fist of it.

It may not be professional football but he is doing something he can get enjoyment out of, which is more than I can say of myself at that age. So I don’t believe he is grinding an axe, he has been through the system and has an opinion on it, it probably will upset some at the club but the truth hurts and I say good on him for going public with it.

 

[davie nine]

I understand that, as they progress through the Argyle Academy, the Club ensures that they regularly attend college to enable them, if they do not make it in the professional game, to have the opportunity to study to pursue another career. This was explained to us by Kevin Hodges at Senior Greens in April 2016.

Perhaps Jake used the education that Argyle arranged to obtain the appropriate qualifications to be able to set up his own business

If so, at least Argyle can take some credit for his progress and I hope that he continues to thrive in his chosen profession whilst also enjoying participating in his chosen sport.

 

[Ted]

Axe to grind. He has no right to be a professional footballer. Can't blame the coaches if it didn't happen.

It's like Joe Bloggs who stacks shelves moaning about the gaffer all the time because he hasn't been given a promotion but wouldn't excel himself above and beyond to get there - or just isn't very good at stacking shelves.

 

[dunlop]

It's simple if they are good enough Adams would promote them to the first team squad and then make a judgement to see if they are good enough for selection for the first team at present except for Fletcher they are just not ready/ good enough for selection.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

It's simple if they are good enough Adams would promote them to the first team squad and then make a judgement to see if they are good enough for selection for the first team at present except for Fletcher they are just not ready/ good enough for selection.

Not every kid shows their full potential at such a young age. The problem seems to be that too many are dumped too early due to no development programme beyond under 18s

 

[Kentishgreen]

Sure but that’s a problem all clubs face. Some people would have you believe this is a problem unique to Argyle.

 

[Knibbsworth]

So Jake Miller doesn’t have an axe to grind then?

He turned down an offer from Argyle, Argyle didn’t release him. Part of his reasoning was seeing Development contracts were going nowhere (he was proved right, when not one made as much as a single substitute appearance in a first team competition before being released) and didn’t want to waste any more time with Argyle, already thinking he was two years behind his mates in life as it was. Since he jacked it in he has played for two top sides in the SWPL, got qualified in an area he is passionate about and set up his own business, I’ve not used his services but I follow his social media business accounts and judging by how professional it looks and knowing his character, I think he will make a really good fist of it.

It may not be professional football but he is doing something he can get enjoyment out of, which is more than I can say of myself at that age. So I don’t believe he is grinding an axe, he has been through the system and has an opinion on it, it probably will upset some at the club but the truth hurts and I say good on him for going public with it.

Isaac Vassell filled out and developed after Argyle released him. He went to Truro, proved himself at that level and put himself on the trial circuit when Luton picked him up. Now he finds himself in the Championship.

If any player feels Argyle haven't seen the obvious genius in them, there are other routes back in the game. Sunderland released Hourihane, but he cut his teeth with Argyle and I bet Sunderland wouldn't mind having him back now.

The sad fact is that the vast majority of U18 players will not make the grade. It's not about not being given a chance. Tyler Harvey made over fifty Football League appearances for Argyle and no other league club than Argyle since thought he was worth a professional contract, so it's not just about a bit of belief and being given a chance or any of that sentimental rubbish. It's about having the talent and potential and mental fortitude to forge a Football League career, and the best judges of that are the likes to Adams, Brewster, Wotton and Hodges who have been there and done it themselves.

If Jake Miller was such a good player, why has he not made his way into the game down other channels? He's played for some 'top SWPL sides'? Well he should do, that's amateur standard over ten tiers below Argyle's first team. Argyle get these decisions right 99% of the time, and the SWPL is where the majority of our past and present U18 side will end up, talented local kids who become talented local adults playing at the talented local standard.

Also you may bemoan development contracts, but there are a lot of young talented footballers who would do anything to train with a professional club and have the chance to be observed and advised by professional coaches. It's up to them to develop and impress and seize that opportunity. They are not owed 5 starts and 15 sub appearances in League One because the club wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Biggs]

So Jake Miller doesn’t have an axe to grind then?

He turned down an offer from Argyle, Argyle didn’t release him. Part of his reasoning was seeing Development contracts were going nowhere (he was proved right, when not one made as much as a single substitute appearance in a first team competition before being released) and didn’t want to waste any more time with Argyle, already thinking he was two years behind his mates in life as it was. Since he jacked it in he has played for two top sides in the SWPL, got qualified in an area he is passionate about and set up his own business, I’ve not used his services but I follow his social media business accounts and judging by how professional it looks and knowing his character, I think he will make a really good fist of it.

It may not be professional football but he is doing something he can get enjoyment out of, which is more than I can say of myself at that age. So I don’t believe he is grinding an axe, he has been through the system and has an opinion on it, it probably will upset some at the club but the truth hurts and I say good on him for going public with it.

But what truth? What insight has he offered beyond saying he gives no credit to the club or coaches?

That's such a broad and generic statement, that I don't really see what anyone at the club is supposed to do with it. If I saw a well-thought out, balanced few hundred words on what exactly the failings at Argyle are, I'd be inclined to take it more seriously.

It may that like many others, he didn't like the whiff of the ruthlessness of modern football and opted out of the whole thing. Again, you have to really, really want it to make it at the relatively high level of League One (and if you take professional football as a whole, it is a very high level). I'm trying hard not to cast any aspersions on his character, but it's fairly clear he couldn't have wanted it that badly if he turned down a contract and dropped out of football altogether.

Again, I can't really tell much from one tweet offering no details apart from a blanket dismissal of club AND coaches.

 

[MarkMatthews]

Where in that tweet did Jake blame the coaches for not making it? Or where has he had the arragonce to suggest it was his”right” to be a footballer? Given his personal circumstances it was a terrific effort to even get him self back to even be in the position of a contract offer.

The reason he won’t pursue much above SWPL is I would imagine, the toil it will do on his knees. He has chosen to move on from full time football, he isn’t pursuing it anymore. I assumed you might know that knibbsworth, you seem to have a strong negative opinion of someone you apprently know very little about just because he has been critical of the clubs management structure.

 

[Knibbsworth]

Where in that tweet did Jake blame the coaches for not making it? Or where has he had the arragonce to suggest it was his”right” to be a footballer? Given his personal circumstances it was a terrific effort to even get him self back to even be in the position of a contract offer.

The reason he won’t pursue much above SWPL is I would imagine, the toil it will do on his knees. He has chosen to move on from full time football, he isn’t pursuing it anymore. I assumed you might know that knibbsworth, you seem to have a strong negative opinion of someone you apprently know very little about just because he has been critical of the clubs management structure.

I don't have a strong negative opinion of Jake Miller at all, and I apologise if that is how my comments come across. I will bet money though that he never makes an appearance in the Football League, and neither will the vast majority of his former U18 teammates. Therefore the blame game which always seems to lead back to DA or KH's door with the barbed comments is futile, as our coaches believed they didn't have what it takes and playing for 'several top SWPL sides' since he turned down Argyle hardly disproves that. Nine times out of 10, that's the level our former youth team players find themselves at and stay at. It's always seems to be our management's fault that Harvey, Young and Rooney etc. aren't the next Mickey Evans/Wotton with a Football League team built around them.

I wish them well going to America, going to Ireland, going to Truro or Parkway, going to non-league, trialling all over the country or whatever route they choose to go down. The route to professional football is extremely tough, there's no doubt about that.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

Sure but that’s a problem all clubs face. Some people would have you believe this is a problem unique to Argyle.

Most clubs run their academies to the age of 23.

 

[Argy1e]

Sure but that’s a problem all clubs face. Some people would have you believe this is a problem unique to Argyle.

Most clubs run their academies to the age of 23.

24! The under 23 players would be 24 at the end of that season.

 

[jimsing]

Do we have the budget to do that? It will mean paying extra wages to those extra footballers.

It seems that an early decision has to be made - there is always another generation coming along each year, you know!

 

[HC Green]

Do we have the budget to do that? It will mean paying extra wages to those extra footballers.

It seems that an early decision has to be made - there is always another generation coming along each year, you know!

As Argyle’s finances improve I expect more post 18 players to be kept on so that in a few years time there will be separate SWPL/Central League and U18 teams.