Wind your necks in....

[nikkk]

Nikkk, whilst your financial input is no doubt very welcome, you are not an ordinary 'man on the street'. The welcome and platitudes afforded to you with an open cheque book are bound to be different to us. For some of us, paying for a ST at £400+ is a very serious consideration.

When making the decision to purchase said ST, a lot is considered. Decisions based on what we were told in the press from JB's own words, the promises made and the hope that now the club is out of administration, it will push forward and be the club we want it to be. Nobody is expecting a meteoric rise to the CCC over the next four years, but we want a club that has the infrastructure in place to at least challenge at the top end of this pitifully bad football league.

We know we have one of the best supported clubs - both at home and away - for L2, we know we have a squad of players that CAN compete at this level, we know we have a 'competitive budget' this season. What we don't see is the words from the closed season being put into practice. What we see is a very inexperienced coaching set up, led by a complete rookie manager who appear to have no idea how to formulate a game plan, a plan B or a settled side. In fact, the more I watch the more confused I am by the line up. It looks like the work of Nero, more and more. Consequently, some of us ST holders are feeling understandably somewhat 'short changed' on our purchases.

Sorry to harp on, I'm sure you know it's nothing personal, but to expect the fans of Argyle to blindly follow will not ever happen again. Look where that got us last time when we all 'trusted in Stapes'. We very nearly had no PAFC. Expect us to question, expect us to want the open-ness we were promised by this new owner and board.

That's fair. Completely understand the feelings and frustrations of so many.

 

[dunlop]

I'd be interested to know how our continued poor home form, our inability to keep clean sheets, our ineffectiveness in attack and an inexperienced manager and coaching set up is going to help us to move forward.

Crowds are down, supporters who I have always thought are far more dedicated than I are starting to stop going and question whether they want to bother going next season as well.

I have had a season ticket for years. I had one throughout my time at university, when I was skint, and I have had one since leaving university whilst finding it difficult to get work. I have very very limited resources and still have a season ticket, I helped in the fight to save the club and now I don't really want to go on Saturday and I didn't really want to go to the last home game. I watched the last home game from a bar, the first time in over a decade I have watched a game outside of the Devonport, and this Saturday if it weren't for the Trust AGM and the fact that I didn't watch the last game with my family I probably wouldn't be going.

I am not losing interest because I don't trust the owner, I'm not losing interest because I don't enjoy the rest of my day with family and friends. I am losing interest because the football is dire, we rarely look like winning and without the feeling that we might get something there is no excitement in going to games. This is because our manager inspires absolutely no confidence in me whatsoever and to make matters worse actually makes me angry. His constant tinkering with formations and selection are bad enough but his recent comments defending Purse's actions, blaming luck and essentially saying we don't understand because we haven't played are just pi$$ing me off. It is one thing to be so useless that you are driving supporters away but to patronise them when you are doing such a terrible job is just too much.

If he is losing the club dedicated fans whilst getting us involved in a relegation struggle then he simply has to go. Enough is enough, he lacks the ability and experience to rebuild the footballing side of the club and we need someone competent to sort out this mess.

I am all for stability but there is no point in having a stable coaching set up that is not up to the task. We need to go through a proper recruitment process where we end up with a manager who has been well researched and who has interviewed better than other candidates. What we have is our ex captain, our ex 'keeper and an ex non-league player being given responsibility for rebuilding the club. I simply don't believe that there is not a better option that could be found were the club to look for one.

Perhaps its because the club has lost its soul, my optimism when Brent took over has completely gone, I have never been a fan of Fletcher the manager, never the less I am always there supporting the team, the Argyle buzz has gone, the club I grew up supporting has vanished (some would say that is a good thing) the topic seems to be about every thing accept what is happening to what is going on the pitch, it seems we are rudderless drifting hoping some how a miracle will happen, we have no leaders on or off the pitch.

 

[loopysheep]

Ah, I appear to have thrown in a hand grenade here...

Firstly, I was not trolling and just because someone says a controversial statement that other do not agree with doesn't make them a troll (saying that a title called Wind Your Necks In doesn't help!).

The original point I made is that the club are not in a position to hire and fire like Chelsea seemingly do. I heard a stat on five live last night that Chelsea have spent more on manager recruitment and dismissals then they have players!

Anyway, those who suggest we can afford a 30 goal a season striker, a new manager (including the cost to pay off the current one and possibly pay compensation to another club for a new one) and a whole revamp of the squad need to run the numbers very carefully. We are still very much hamstring by the financial crisis (Argyle's not the global one - although that doesn't help) - you want evidence of that.... how much are we paying for new players? Frees, Loans and very small fees from lower league clubs.

The point I was trying to make and probably didn't do it very eloquently is that Argyle are not in a position to write cheques it can't cash. Brent seems to be trying his best to balance the books, yes we don't want to go down that won't help the books but he also has a manager who kept them up last year (and from a far worse position). The reason for a 'lack of action' is probably a financial one.

(Again not trolling) but I do wonder what some people expected from this season. It's a long way back to the top, and we need to crawl before we can walk before we can run. Being near the bottom is not nice, but we did just play the top 7.

I also wonder who would want to take Argyle on if CF were to leave? Obviously they can't spend money. CF is here for a love for the club, if we get on his back and he goes (jumps or is pushed), who are we going to attract? We may be off life support and out of intensive care but we are still going back to the doctor for regular check ups!

Long and the short - and hopefully not winding anyone up - Argyle are probably going to stick with Carl Fletcher as the costs of changing manager are fixed and are definite, the possibility of relegation is just that a possibility. Business men like Brent (who doesn't have that much cash - for a football club chairman) deal with facts and not possibilities.

 

[Womble]

Loopy

The point a lot of people are making is that the fall in gate revenues will cost the club far more than changing manager. There has been no demand for a "30-goal a season striker", so dont make things up (naughty boy!). People dont dont even want a squad revamp, most beleive that we can improve the current squad just by bringing in a new manager.

I think sacking Fletch could avert both a football crisis and a financial meltdown.

 

[fishypilgrim]

A couple of points if I may . They may be right , they may not .
1) If PAFC (CF's employer - Not James Brent ) decide enough is enough and do sack Carl Fletcher it will be the football club who pay the compensation , not James Brent .
2) I appreciate that under CF we are trying to play football . However as many wise football managers have said in the past - you have to earn the right to play the football you want to play - no matter what the opposition . You have to be prepared to do the dirty , ugly stuff first and foremost .
3) We haven't CONSISTENTLY dominated at Home Park for more years now than I care to think about . It should be a venue where opposition teams fear to tread , unfortunately whether it is due to inexperience on and off the pitch or something else we seem to allow oppositions to set the pace and tempo of the game from the start and as a result have become a soft touch .
4) If we could get into a winning run ( BIG IF) even if it was a series of 1 0's I would expect crowd numbers to return . I am not confident that just changing the manager would , as i have read elsewhere , increase the gate for a new man in charge to 10000.

 

[loopysheep]

Loopy

The point a lot of people are making is that the fall in gate revenues will cost the club far more than changing manager. There has been no demand for a "30-goal a season striker", so dont make things up (naughty boy!). People dont dont even want a squad revamp, most beleive that we can improve the current squad just by bringing in a new manager.

I think sacking Fletch could avert both a football crisis and a financial meltdown.

I saw a comment for someone somewhere saying we've need a 30+ striker. That's what sparked the OP. We can't afford these things (even if not wanted)

I'm not implying everyone wants it, just that it's another thing we cannot afford. Apologies if it came across as me speaking on behalf of the majority!

 

[Womble]

It might have been a typo Loopy, he probably watched Chadders and Feeny and meant 3+ striker! Much have added the 0 by mistake!

 

[Cerbera]

Fishy, and Womble. Both of you make very valid points.

Fishy, your point 4, I don't think anyone would expect us to have gates of 10k plus (except TQ + EXT) with Alex Ferguson in charge. if we were in Gillingham's position now, I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect 8500 to a home game with tremendous atmosphere and Fortress HP again.

 

[loopysheep]

Oh and one more thing (having read the whole thread properly now)

I'm not suggesting an acceptance of mediocrity, I just wonder if we can even afford the sacking and rehiring. If we can't (which is probable) then no matter how much the fans campaign for a change it wont happen for the reasons I mentioned previously.

 

[Womble]

Oh and one more thing (having read the whole thread properly now)

I'm not suggesting an acceptance of mediocrity, I just wonder if we can even afford the sacking and rehiring. If we can't (which is probable) then no matter how much the fans campaign for a change it wont happen for the reasons I mentioned previously.

Ultimatley Loopy there is no way for us to know. Perhaps the fans trust or PASB could ask. For us normal fans there is simply no way to lnow what the budget is, but I refuse to accept there is not the money available for thsi until the club make this crystal clear.

I was under the impressions that we have some playing budget remaining (maybe a PASOTI fact), if true I dont see why the funds cannot come from this. People are not advocating a "throw money at it" approach, but the manager is THE most important person at a club; we have to get this appointment right. Cut some budgets elsewhere if needs be.

 

[jerryatricjanner]

I go along with that Womble, the manger/coaching set up is the most vital ingredient to get right. Brent has stated that there is still some of the budget to spend should it be necessary in January. It is certainly a conundrum that Brent is likely to be facing shortly, does he spend £150,000 or whatever it might be replacing the current management team or use it for players in January? does he fork it out now or risk losing 1,000 pay on the dayers for the rest of the season which would equate to roughly the same? Unless we see a sudden upturn in the coming weeks this season will be a bit of a write off by Christmas with lower mid table likely to be the height of our ambitions. I still refuse to believe this squad can be relegated but once the rot sets in anything can happen and we have seen clubs branded as too good to go down relegated before in all divisions. Now that would really be a disaster, some tough choices lay ahead. As an aside Loopy, are you sure you heard right on the radio? Chelsea I think it was said on TV last night have spent 75 million terminating manager's contracts since The Russian took charge. Surely they must have spent 10 times that on players in the same period?

 

[tigertony]

I go along with that Womble, the manger/coaching set up is the most vital ingredient to get right. Brent has stated that there is still some of the budget to spend should it be necessary in January. It is certainly a conundrum that Brent is likely to be facing shortly, does he spend £150,000 or whatever it might be replacing the current management team or use it for players in January? does he fork it out now or risk losing 1,000 pay on the dayers for the rest of the season which would equate to roughly the same? Unless we see a sudden upturn in the coming weeks this season will be a bit of a write off by Christmas with lower mid table likely to be the height of our ambitions. I still refuse to believe this squad can be relegated but once the rot sets in anything can happen and we have seen clubs branded as too good to go down relegated before in all divisions. Now that would really be a disaster, some tough choices lay ahead. As an aside Loopy, are you sure you heard right on the radio? Chelsea I think it was said on TV last night have spent 75 million terminating manager's contracts since The Russian took charge. Surely they must have spent 10 times that on players in the same period?

you got in just before me jerry.
We barely have 1 egg cup of money let alone 2 !! :shock: Maybe in Jan CF can bring in 2 players who will tighten things up and hit the target ? Providing they are not injured in training. :facepalm:
Another poster mentioned that a few 1-0 wins will bring some fans back BUT we can't get the ''1'' or the ''0'' at present. What has happened to our defence from the last 18 games of last season when we were not shipping goals.?? :think: (Williams has been injured which to me is a loss but to a lot of fans its a blessing ?) :think:

 

[RedGreen]

Whilst Rome burns, Brent's counting his coins to save a pittance in staff redundancies, and the club is in free-fall and will haemorrage far more in fans and goodwill than he saves in his button counting exercise. As we have seen already, once fans have had enough, they will not be persuaded to come back very easily. I am now at that tipping point too, as John Petrie said, why go when you do not look forward to or enjoy it anymore!

 

[crownhill pilgrim]

Oh and one more thing (having read the whole thread properly now)

I'm not suggesting an acceptance of mediocrity, I just wonder if we can even afford the sacking and rehiring. If we can't (which is probable) then no matter how much the fans campaign for a change it wont happen for the reasons I mentioned previously.

Without wanting to fan the 'Fletch out' flames (personally, we owe him 2 or 3 more games). If we can't afford to bring in a professional standard coaching team, we probably shouldn't be in the league in the first place. AFC Wimbledon could afford to sack their manager in September (not that it's done them any good mind).