Mid-Table Finish? (And Grandstand Discussion)

[lloyd_down_under]

As the author of the piece I thought I’d come on to defend myself.

Firstly, I wouldn’t consider myself as someone that has an axe to grind or any particular agenda; if I did then I’d have been using the site to discuss Argyle much more over the last few months. As it is, the last Argyle related piece that went up was back in January shortly after Sheridan’s arrival. I think it picked up a nice mention on here, or ATD. One or the other.

Perhaps I may have been quite hyperbolic in my reference to a ‘fissure’, although if we’re deconstructing the piece then I did refer to those who are pro-build as ‘many’ and those who are less enthusiastic as ‘some’, indicating which side of the fence the majority of supporters lie. And as to my reference to the debate possibly detracting from our progress this season, I meant in the sense of spoiling the enjoyment that I – and other supporters – might get from a resurgence in form rather than in it actually affecting how well we do on the pitch. And I absolutely stand by that from a personal point of view, and judging by my Argyle circle I’d say about 1/3 of the others who really have a grip on what’s going on would as well.

If I’d known what a fuss I was going to cause then I’d have probably put everything more carefully, but trying to write 200 words on 24 different teams at this stage of the year when all you want to do is go outside and sit in sun can mean that these little things sometimes don’t get picked up as well as they might…

But, even though seeing some of the responses on here has been a bit disappointing in their spitefulness, it has been interesting to see which people have posted and in what kind of tone.

And, for the record, I don’t have a brother in law. As I noted in a tweet to you earlier Ian, I think you might be confusing us with another site, possibly Two Hundred Percent, who did so much to help publicise our plight during our period of administration.

 

[IJN]

Oops, sorry mate, you are so right, I always get you two mixed up.

Apologies for the mix up!!

However, I still think you've typed a load of rollox.

Nothing from you on Twitter by the way. :crazy: :crazy:

 

[The Grumpy Loyal]

This thread ought to now be locked, framed, and auctioned off.

Classic.

Lloyd_down_under, you obvious agenda-mongering trouble maker, you. :lol:

But seriously, there is so much paranoia about any criticism of the mini-stand from Smiffy and Co, this really ought to be a lesson in stepping back and thinking for a minute, before labelling people.

 

[X Isle]

Yes it does Chris, it has no place in his article.

When did the building of a stand 15-18 months in the future ever have anything to do with the prospects of 11 men on a football pitch over a season?

To give 50% over to negative minority propaganda makes it utter guff as a meaningful article to be taken seriously.

It is a football related matter if it has a negative effect on season ticket sales, and attendances generally, which will impact on our playing budget.

But it won't effect ST sales, it won't effect general attendance so it won't effect the playing budget. Ergo it has no place on a 2013-2014 pre-season summary.

It's agenda-mongering guff masquerading as an honest appraisal of our club. It's not objective, it's pedalling a falsehood by massively overstating a 'split' exists on this. It's more like the "fissure" (not) between a boulder and the slope of Everest on which it sits.

I don't think it is a case of a split (or fissure) it is a question of how many fans (if any) are disenchanted by the lack of ambition evidenced by the proposed capacity of the ground to the extent they will not renew their season ticket. Time will tell.

I don't believe anyone is so stubborn and obtuse as to refuse to renew a season ticket because they feel there is a lack of ambition. In so doing they'd be depriving the club of funds and thus themselves limiting available investment.
If anyone stops their ST this season it'll be down to personal economic difficulties or shifting priorities in this unprecedented extended recession.

You don't pay to have watched the dross of these last few seasons only to flounce off on a minority non football preoccupation just as the results improve.

If you do then frankly disloyalty on such a fatuous whim is a trait Argyle would probably be better off without :wave:

So have you got your season ticket yet then x-isle?

Loaded question, you know that and you also know you can draw no contradiction from it ;-)

I have one weekend in five off and I'm at the whim of the fixture list as to which games I can physically be at. If Argyle wasn't 200+ miles away I could maybe shoe a game in before nights or after an early, but it isn't.

But yes, thanks for asking :roll: no contradiction as I've renewed my membership and games package at the same level it's always been, the same level it'll be until I retire.

Excuses?, no, geographical logistics and the simple need to make a living. Besides, if Plymouth seriously expects exiles to fill Home Park for them then Argyle might just as well relocate to the Home Counties.

 

[IJN]

By the way, the ST's are at the same level as last season.

 

[Greenskin]

I think some people might use the GS as an excuse not to attend, but other than that, it's laughable.

This.

The excuse pot got dangerously close to running dry under Hollowords for the 'ambition demanding', 'cart before the horse' non-attending whinge brigade. They need to store up as many excuses as possible in the larder for those 'rainy days' when Argyle are doing really well :roll:

They didn't come and thus the 'built the team and they will come' arguement was blown apart. So what possible confidence can anyone possibly invest in 'build the ground and they will come' line now?

Excuses, excuses excuses. Build me a huge ground and buy me a great team and I'll come Mr. Brent.......but not for long, I'll soon go away again and blame you when it goes wrong.

Well, pitch that on Dragon's Den and see how much investment you get :lol:

Plymouth will get what Plymouth deserves. Like Ian I too once believed we were a sleeping giant but we're not. We're actually narcoleptic, we might wake up occasionally but as quick as we do the excitement brings on the need for another nap.

What did we build for the Plymouth public not to come?

Bottom half second tier football until Holloway came in, 4 months of playoff form and then the manager left, then his side was sold off.

Sturrock was brought in and wasted money on average players. Some good young players, but the likes of Norris, Halmosi and SEB were never seen again.

Most sides before promotion to the Prem don't have huge attendances. Stoke didn't make a case for promotion to the Prem, they just built the capacity and made it happen. So did Reading, Swansea and Brighton.

For some reason because Argyle had an average attendance of merely 14, 000 whilst experiencing top half second tier football, this ought to ignore the fact we would sell out Brent's capacity in ST sales alone if we experienced what Blackpool achieved.

Smiffy is still posting the same sort of stuff that he was in 2007,which back then involved singling out one of the poorest and economically deprived wards in the country [Mr and Mrs Apathetic of Swilly :shock: ] to spout his ire about only 13000 people coming to watch a team which averaged a league position of 14th in the 3 seasons prior to Holloways departure.Watered down a bit now admittedly but still twisting the facts and arguments to suit his own agenda-nobody was asking for a "huge ground", just an adequate one to capitalise on any momentum gained if and when we go up through the leagues again.One benefit of getting it right now would have been to put to bed the endless arguments of "players v property" that characterised the clubs last foray into the second tier but it looks like that opportunity has sadly been lost.But if he thinks that the opposition to Brent's plans represent a "small minority of size obsessed fantasists" then he's living in an even bigger fools paradise than i thought possible-it certainly isn't the case with the supporters that i've spoken to,whose views on Argyle in general can in no way be said to be extreme.

 

[Balham Green]

[When did the building of a stand 15-18 months in the future ever have anything to do with the prospects of 11 men on a football pitch over a season?

To give 50% over to negative minority propaganda makes it utter guff as a meaningful article to be taken seriously.[/quote]
It is a football related matter if it has a negative effect on season ticket sales, and attendances generally, which will impact on our playing budget.[/quote]

But it won't effect ST sales, it won't effect general attendance so it won't effect the playing budget. Ergo it has no place on a 2013-2014 pre-season summary.

It's agenda-mongering guff masquerading as an honest appraisal of our club. It's not objective, it's pedalling a falsehood by massively overstating a 'split' exists on this. It's more like the "fissure" (not) between a boulder and the slope of Everest on which it sits.[/quote]
I don't think it is a case of a split (or fissure) it is a question of how many fans (if any) are disenchanted by the lack of ambition evidenced by the proposed capacity of the ground to the extent they will not renew their season ticket. Time will tell.[/quote]

I don't believe anyone is so stubborn and obtuse as to refuse to renew a season ticket because they feel there is a lack of ambition. In so doing they'd be depriving the club of funds and thus themselves limiting available investment.
If anyone stops their ST this season it'll be down to personal economic difficulties or shifting priorities in this unprecedented extended recession.

You don't pay to have watched the dross of these last few seasons only to flounce off on a minority non football preoccupation just as the results improve.

If you do then frankly disloyalty on such a fatuous whim is a trait Argyle would probably be better off without :wave:[/quote]

So have you got your season ticket yet then x-isle?[/quote]

Loaded question, you know that and you also know you can draw no contradiction from it ;-)

I have one weekend in five off and I'm at the whim of the fixture list as to which games I can physically be at. If Argyle wasn't 200+ miles away I could maybe shoe a game in before nights or after an early, but it isn't.

But yes, thanks for asking :roll: no contradiction as I've renewed my membership and games package at the same level it's always been, the same level it'll be until I retire.

Excuses?, no, geographical logistics and the simple need to make a living. Besides, if Plymouth seriously expects exiles to fill Home Park for them then Argyle might just as well relocate to the Home Counties.[/quote]

So everybody is expected to buy/renew season tickets but you are unable to do yourself. Hypocrisy by any chance?

 

[X Isle]

Poor try, no account for the massive distinction of circumstance, just fire off an accusation and hope to get a rise.

It won't, not guilty, clear conscience

PS - First appalling mis-spelling of players names over the weekend now an inability to correctly structure ongoing quotes. Standards, tut tut tut, this site is going downhill, I blame facetw@tter.

 

[Balham Green]

Poor try, no account for the massive distinction of circumstance, just fire off an accusation and hope to get a rise.

It won't, not guilty, clear conscience

PS - First appalling mis-spelling of players names over the weekend now an inability to correctly structure ongoing quotes. Standards, tut tut tut, this site is going downhill, I blame facetw@tter.

You really need to get out more. Perhaps to Home Park even!
Of course you won't see it cos you dont want to. Or you are too stupid. Probably both.
It's very, very simple. You are criticising folk for not buying season tickets when you rarely go yourself. Think about it. Surely you can see something is wrong there... Can't you..... No, oh well i give up. You carry on in your own smug little world.

 

[X Isle]

That'll be the real world then. If I criticised someone from the south east of England who was working 4/5 weekends then that would be a contradiction. I didn't so it isn't.

Oh, and thanks earlier to Greenskin for confirming my consistency on this matter

 

[Pafcintheplace]

This thread is just hilarious :-D No worldwide conspiracy against Brentypops afterall, just a football fan offering a few words on where Argyle are at, well quelle feckin surprise

 

[IJN]

:greensmile:

Still a crappy blog though.

:thumbs:

 

[justanotherfan]

In this context Mr Place, it has nothing to do with the price of eggs.

The fanbase is united in as much most of think the capacity isn't big enough, but to suggest that a fan split, could cause us not to do as well as we could, is totally ridiculous.

As I say, it's obvious that this chap (or one of them) has an agenda (no doubt, via his family) to suggest such a thing.

Some fans, seem to think an internet spat, is important enough to destabalise a club or a season, I suggest most of us, laugh at such a suggestion.

Match attending fans, normal fans, see what is happening, and are buoyed at what they see, not at that rubbish.

I think for many Ian a big part of supporting Argyle is having a long term vision which is now diminished. As I said time will tell wether it has any effect on season ticket sales.

I for one support The Pilgrims in the here and now, the idea that if we build a stand with more capacity then the fanbase will expand to fill it is naïve in the extreme. When the stand is completed let`s see how much the attendances increase and for how long, the Green Army is the Green Army, however as has occurred so many time in the past, new conscripts soon desert when the going gets tough.

Back on subject, I fail to see how this is a realistic appraisal of the Teams sason. :scarf: :scarf: :scarf:

 

[GreenMidlander]

In this context Mr Place, it has nothing to do with the price of eggs.

The fanbase is united in as much most of think the capacity isn't big enough, but to suggest that a fan split, could cause us not to do as well as we could, is totally ridiculous.

As I say, it's obvious that this chap (or one of them) has an agenda (no doubt, via his family) to suggest such a thing.

Some fans, seem to think an internet spat, is important enough to destabalise a club or a season, I suggest most of us, laugh at such a suggestion.

Match attending fans, normal fans, see what is happening, and are buoyed at what they see, not at that rubbish.

I think for many Ian a big part of supporting Argyle is having a long term vision which is now diminished. As I said time will tell wether it has any effect on season ticket sales.

I for one support The Pilgrims in the here and now, the idea that if we build a stand with more capacity then the fanbase will expand to fill it is naïve in the extreme. When the stand is completed let`s see how much the attendances increase and for how long, the Green Army is the Green Army, however as has occurred so many time in the past, new conscripts soon desert when the going gets tough.

Back on subject, I fail to see how this is a realistic appraisal of the Teams sason. :scarf: :scarf: :scarf:

Couldn't agree more, on both counts.

 

[GreenSam]

Double edges sword this one for me.

I don't like Smiffy's hypersensitivity to criticism of these plans. If people want to keep on debating then that's their right and I don't think we should be told off for spoiling the current vibe. I can juxtapose being happy with the short term on field but unhappy about the stand. I certainly don't agree with Smiffy/Ian that we aren't a sleeping giant. I'm in greenskin's camp- in the right circumstances we still could be awaken.

However on the other hand, the stand issue really does have no impact on the season ahead. It won't be built by the end of it and, as with the trust statement row of last season, I don't think JS and the team let any of the fanbase politics bother them a jot. It's a relevant issue but not sure if it's relevant for that article really.