Michael Cooper "Going Nowhere" {Schuey 13/10/22}

[Tugboat]

I don't think that we are a "knobhead type" club either. If any player under contract comes to the club and says, "My agent has told me that club A are offering £Xs for me. I really want to go to and play for club A, and I think £Xs is fair. Please let me go." Are we the sort of club to say, "No, you are staying with us, end of" ?

Not at all.

I expect the club to factor that in but ultimately the buying club has to meet the clubs valuation.

There’s a way of handling transfers and I think the club has a strategy that will ensure we maximise revenue in each and every transfer.

Camara is a prime example. He’s not happy with the deal presented and the club have acted in the way in which the strategy dicates.

 

[jerryatricjanner]

Newcastle paid five time the remaining value of Chris Wood's contract at Burnley. If you equate that to Michael Cooper, it comes out at a million quid.

Totally irrelevant. I'm not sure why you feel a player's value equates to his wages more than any other factor. Newcastle desperately wanted another centre forward and it was close to deadline day. Woods wasn't worth more than 10 millionish and would Burnley have wanted to be saddled with his contract in the 2nd tier? They clearly got a great deal for Woods in my ooinion. Newcastle's need was greater and they had the money to pay top dollar for Woods.
In Cooper's case any buying club will pay what they and Argyle feel he is worth after negotiations and taking into account the salary and signing on fee he will command from his new club. What Argyle currently pay him isn't that important in my view as a club like Argyle just isn't going to and cannot be expected to pay a home grown 22 year old 20k a week or whatever.
How much do you think Exeter were paying Ollie Watkins before his multi million pound transfer to Brentford?

 

[jerryatricjanner]

Sorry Jerry, but I can't see a club obtaining Coops's signature, delaying an announcement so that his former club can sell more season tickets. Wouldn't they want him to be involved in their pre-season?

Nor me, I think it's a long shot.

 

[Southampton Green]

Not at all.

I expect the club to factor that in but ultimately the buying club has to meet the clubs valuation.

There’s a way of handling transfers and I think the club has a strategy that will ensure we maximise revenue in each and every transfer.

Camara is a prime example. He’s not happy with the deal presented and the club have acted in the way in which the strategy dicates.

I agree with everything you are saying. It's fluid with many factors; it's a negotiation, and the ultimate factor is that the club own the contract. It is just that I think that the Argyle we have now, is going to place the individual player's views and desires very highly indeed.

 

[briangreen]

Offer him say 5k a week for two years, that might do the trick

He's probably on about that.

 

[Tugboat]

He's probably on about that.

I doubt it.

I’d say nearer half.

 

[briangreen]

I doubt it.

I’d say nearer half.

I wouldn't, he's currently the clubs best asset and well worth the money.

 

[Tugboat]

I wouldn't, he's currently the clubs best asset and well worth the money.

He’s wasn’t at the Value he is at now when he signed his contract thou.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

Totally irrelevant. I'm not sure why you feel a player's value equates to his wages more than any other factor. Newcastle desperately wanted another centre forward and it was close to deadline day. Woods wasn't worth more than 10 millionish and would Burnley have wanted to be saddled with his contract in the 2nd tier? They clearly got a great deal for Woods in my ooinion. Newcastle's need was greater and they had the money to pay top dollar for Woods.
In Cooper's case any buying club will pay what they and Argyle feel he is worth after negotiations and taking into account the salary and signing on fee he will command from his new club. What Argyle currently pay him isn't that important in my view as a club like Argyle just isn't going to and cannot be expected to pay a home grown 22 year old 20k a week or whatever.
How much do you think Exeter were paying Ollie Watkins before his multi million pound transfer to Brentford?

Before Bosman, a club held a player's registration even after his contract had expired. Transfer fees were paid to release that registration. Since Bosman, the only value a club has is in the asset of the contract they have with the player. We all know what happens now once that contract runs out. Transfer fees are no longer a payment to release the player's registration. They are now compensation for the loss of the asset of the contract so the value of that contract is massive when it comes to valuation. Clubs can stand firm of course and expect more but it is hard to justify because it is difficult to predict how potential will pan out and that is why we now see more and more add-ons to deals that pay out once that potential is achieved. Of course in Cooper's case the club can add to the fee for the cost of his development but if you look at what is laid down by EPPP for players coming through an academy, it doesn't run into millions.

 

[ming the merciless]

Totally irrelevant. I'm not sure why you feel a player's value equates to his wages more than any other factor. Newcastle desperately wanted another centre forward and it was close to deadline day. Woods wasn't worth more than 10 millionish and would Burnley have wanted to be saddled with his contract in the 2nd tier? They clearly got a great deal for Woods in my ooinion. Newcastle's need was greater and they had the money to pay top dollar for Woods.
In Cooper's case any buying club will pay what they and Argyle feel he is worth after negotiations and taking into account the salary and signing on fee he will command from his new club. What Argyle currently pay him isn't that important in my view as a club like Argyle just isn't going to and cannot be expected to pay a home grown 22 year old 20k a week or whatever.
How much do you think Exeter were paying Ollie Watkins before his multi million pound transfer to Brentford?

Totally agree Jerry.
Sounds like the kind of rubbish a big club would tell a smaller club as they try to bend them over on price.

 

[Biggs]

Before Bosman, a club held a player's registration even after his contract had expired. Transfer fees were paid to release that registration. Since Bosman, the only value a club has is in the asset of the contract they have with the player. We all know what happens now once that contract runs out. Transfer fees are no longer a payment to release the player's registration. They are now compensation for the loss of the asset of the contract so the value of that contract is massive when it comes to valuation. Clubs can stand firm of course and expect more but it is hard to justify because it is difficult to predict how potential will pan out and that is why we now see more and more add-ons to deals that pay out once that potential is achieved. Of course in Cooper's case the club can add to the fee for the cost of his development but if you look at what is laid down by EPPP for players coming through an academy, it doesn't run into millions.

But you’re disproving your own argument in correctly noting the importance of the player’s contract.

Cooper has two years left on his contract, so the transfer fee is whatever a buying club is willing to pay to get their asset now rather than wait at least two years (in which time MC could sign a new contract with us or another club, lose two years of development at a higher level, get injured etc etc). Obviously that fee goes up even further if multiple clubs are interested.

Not sure why his current wages would be the most important factor, especially when I believe the player would want as much money as possible going to Argyle, and wouldn’t be demanding 20k+ a week just because he’s heard about a huge fee. And there’ve been scores of huge transfer fees for Football League youngsters post-Bosman, with the incredible wealth of Premier League sides being a bigger factor than the Bosman ruling.

 

[Penmaster]

But you’re disproving your own argument in correctly noting the importance of the player’s contract.

Cooper has two years left on his contract, so the transfer fee is whatever a buying club is willing to pay to get their asset now rather than wait at least two years (in which time MC could sign a new contract with us or another club, lose two years of development at a higher level, get injured etc etc). Obviously that fee goes up even further if multiple clubs are interested.

Not sure why his current wages would be the most important factor, especially when I believe the player would want as much money as possible going to Argyle, and wouldn’t be demanding 20k+ a week just because he’s heard about a huge fee. And there’ve been scores of huge transfer fees for Football League youngsters post-Bosman, with the incredible wealth of Premier League sides being a bigger favour than Bosman ruling.

The length of contract is more relevant to the sale price than wages. The clubs valuation may affect wages ie - 'you won't sell me for less than £5M yet I am only being paid £2k a week'.

If he then signs that contract, his value doesn't suddenly become more, unless it is a longer contract or has a higher minimum fee release clause.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

We know Argyle's valuation of Michael Cooper. It is two grand per week. If I was his agent and was aware that the club were suggesting his transfer value was between £5-10m, then that will be a good starting point when contract renewal comes around. I'd be expecting my player to be offered the salary of a £5-10m player.

 

[JannerinCardiff]

Totally irrelevant. I'm not sure why you feel a player's value equates to his wages more than any other factor. Newcastle desperately wanted another centre forward and it was close to deadline day. Woods wasn't worth more than 10 millionish and would Burnley have wanted to be saddled with his contract in the 2nd tier? They clearly got a great deal for Woods in my ooinion. Newcastle's need was greater and they had the money to pay top dollar for Woods.
In Cooper's case any buying club will pay what they and Argyle feel he is worth after negotiations and taking into account the salary and signing on fee he will command from his new club. What Argyle currently pay him isn't that important in my view as a club like Argyle just isn't going to and cannot be expected to pay a home grown 22 year old 20k a week or whatever.
How much do you think Exeter were paying Ollie Watkins before his multi million pound transfer to Brentford?

Totally agree. Also need to factor in that goalkeepers have a longer career so 22 yr old keeper would still have a 15 year career left in him - an outfield player wouldn’t. Especially one that has played 100 professional matches and won awards at such a young age for a keeper.

 

[JannerinCardiff]

Think the club need to also consider Coopers worth in our aspirations to reach the championship. He’s the best keeper in our division and also the best player in our squad imo. If we are to get to the championship we need him - the amount of points he got us all on his own last season with incredible saves just about every match was stupid.