Fletcher to stay or go(managerial position) | Page 3 | PASOTI
  • This site is sponsored by Lang & Potter.

Fletcher to stay or go(managerial position)

Fletcher's position as manager

  • Stay

    Votes: 110 32.3%
  • Go

    Votes: 165 48.4%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 66 19.4%

  • Total voters
    341
Feb 25, 2011
1,016
0
Saltash
If I was Mr Brent I wouldn't be giving him his cards immediately after today's game. For that reason I haven't chosen 'Go' but instead chosen 'Undecided'.

Clearly I have concerns over results, performances and the general direction we're drifting in (backwards / downwards), I would imagine the vast majority on here share these same concerns.

For me, time is running out for Fletcher, fast. There are a big few games ahead for Fletch and the team (and I very much include Tuesday in that, when I expect the team to show that today's results hurt them and they want to put things right), failure to learn from recent failings would be very difficult to forgive.

Either Carl Fletcher needs to show that he has what it takes to manage a successful Plymouth Argyle side OR Mr Brent needs to give the job to a proven candidate who has shown he has the attributes to allow us make progress as a club in the coming years.
 
Aug 28, 2012
324
0
Graham Evans":2q03d5sv said:
He must go , our opponants today are one of the worst teams on the planet and the completely played us off the park , things just do not get any worse than this in football terms. Take heart because one day Carl Fletcher and James Brent will be nothing but a bad memory and we will have a real football club again.


You simly cannot be serious - be careful what you wish for and please please cast that tiny mind back 14 months - without JB you wouldn't have a football club at all - real football club my backside.
 
Apr 20, 2008
4,180
737
Plymouth
We will not go down, I am almost certain of that.

The players we have are mid-table fodder.

But when 3 centre mids are injured leaving us with the fairly weak Hourihane and the horrendously weak Young, irrespective of how good technically they are, we will get bullied. Plus Nelson as usual gets bullied playing centre back.

From what I have seen, Fletcher is not a bad manager. He makes mistakes, he is learning and he will get better, as will the team when Blachard, Lowry, Wotton and Jenkins return.

If, however, results are poor when those return, maybe it is time to show Fletcher the door.

For now, Fletcher in.
 
Aug 29, 2008
249
97
Dan Ellard":3pao1hkn said:
We will not go down, I am almost certain of that.

The players we have are mid-table fodder.

But when 3 centre mids are injured leaving us with the fairly weak Hourihane and the horrendously weak Young, irrespective of how good technically they are, we will get bullied. Plus Nelson as usual gets bullied playing centre back.

From what I have seen, Fletcher is not a bad manager. He makes mistakes, he is learning and he will get better, as will the team when Blachard, Lowry, Wotton and Jenkins return.

If, however, results are poor when those return, maybe it is time to show Fletcher the door.

For now, Fletcher in.

Sorry but I can't the signs of any learning. Can you give us an example? I'd say exactly the opposite.
 
Apr 20, 2008
4,180
737
Plymouth
semper crudus":7xz6b9os said:
Dan Ellard":7xz6b9os said:
We will not go down, I am almost certain of that.

The players we have are mid-table fodder.

But when 3 centre mids are injured leaving us with the fairly weak Hourihane and the horrendously weak Young, irrespective of how good technically they are, we will get bullied. Plus Nelson as usual gets bullied playing centre back.

From what I have seen, Fletcher is not a bad manager. He makes mistakes, he is learning and he will get better, as will the team when Blachard, Lowry, Wotton and Jenkins return.

If, however, results are poor when those return, maybe it is time to show Fletcher the door.

For now, Fletcher in.

Sorry but I can't the signs of any learning. Can you give us an example? I'd say exactly the opposite.
For example he learned that the 4-5-1/4-3-3 wasn't working and ditched it for 4-4-2 which when key players were fit worked well.
 
Feb 21, 2008
8,616
0
31
Plymouth
Dan Ellard":21slg8pt said:
semper crudus":21slg8pt said:
Dan Ellard":21slg8pt said:
We will not go down, I am almost certain of that.

The players we have are mid-table fodder.

But when 3 centre mids are injured leaving us with the fairly weak Hourihane and the horrendously weak Young, irrespective of how good technically they are, we will get bullied. Plus Nelson as usual gets bullied playing centre back.

From what I have seen, Fletcher is not a bad manager. He makes mistakes, he is learning and he will get better, as will the team when Blachard, Lowry, Wotton and Jenkins return.

If, however, results are poor when those return, maybe it is time to show Fletcher the door.

For now, Fletcher in.

Sorry but I can't the signs of any learning. Can you give us an example? I'd say exactly the opposite.
For example he learned that the 4-5-1/4-3-3 wasn't working and ditched it for 4-4-2 which when key players were fit worked well.
4-4-2 has seen 2 losses, 3 draws, 2 wins. Would average at 59 points over a season. 4-3-3/4-5-1 saw 2 losses, 2 draws. Would average at 8 points!! So ok, the 4-4-2 worked better for us and Fletch did notice that. Still way too many mistakes for my liking.

If all the players contracted to us right now were to be fit and avalible (ha ha) then I think a 4-2-3-1 could be really worth trying.

Lowry, Jenkins, Wotton, perhaps Copp and perhaps Hourihane could play in the defensive minded 2. Hourihane, Young, Lecointe and Sims could all excel in the attacking midfeild spot.

It could be a way of having a bit more fluidity and capability to boss the midfield than 4-4-2, but would counter the problems of striker isolatism and excessive disjointedness that the 4-5-1/4-3-3 brought to us. Maybe.
 
Aug 29, 2008
249
97
Dan Ellard":8kn44j6j said:
semper crudus":8kn44j6j said:
Dan Ellard":8kn44j6j said:
We will not go down, I am almost certain of that.

The players we have are mid-table fodder.

But when 3 centre mids are injured leaving us with the fairly weak Hourihane and the horrendously weak Young, irrespective of how good technically they are, we will get bullied. Plus Nelson as usual gets bullied playing centre back.

From what I have seen, Fletcher is not a bad manager. He makes mistakes, he is learning and he will get better, as will the team when Blachard, Lowry, Wotton and Jenkins return.

If, however, results are poor when those return, maybe it is time to show Fletcher the door.

For now, Fletcher in.

Sorry but I can't the signs of any learning. Can you give us an example? I'd say exactly the opposite.

For example he learned that the 4-5-1/4-3-3 wasn't working and ditched it for 4-4-2 which when key players were fit worked well.

Is that genuinely how you see the narrative of this season? Maybe we've been watching different games. I'd like to have an ounce of your positivity though.

I've seen someone persevering with poor tactics game after game, playing several players out of position, not knowing what his best formation is, and bringing in players that don't seemingly fit whatever formation and plan he has in his head...
 
Dec 3, 2005
7,261
1,755
BadBoy":3rpbaoek said:
Straight after that result i don't think this is a good idea. To much anger around.


LOl - so you would wait until we WIN?

We need a decision now!!
 
Feb 21, 2011
2,836
5
djg145":14s5ldcf said:
BadBoy":14s5ldcf said:
Straight after that result i don't think this is a good idea. To much anger around.
7
LOl - so you would wait until we WIN?

We need a decision now!!

No I would maybe do a poll on monday after everyone had calmed down, and we've heard any post match comments about the injuries to 3 key players and the possibility that Madjo was dropped due to lateness. Not that I think for one minute James Brent will take any notice and nor should he.
 
Jul 25, 2011
2,086
0
Without an alternative being offered its pointless really,whats the option? we'd have to take a punt on an unknown or failed out of work has been drinking at the last chance saloon.
Sven goran ericsson?? :roll:
 

jespafc

✨Pasoti Donor✨
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Oct 23, 2005
2,135
865
www.johnstanlake.com
Stay.

No need to panic yet. There are worse teams than us, and it seems that if we can get a regular starting XI out with Lowry back I think we can achieve mid table.
 

ejh

Sep 27, 2012
2,106
0
I'm undecided.

Fletcher is young and inexperienced, driven and committed, accomplished and well regarded. The senior players seem supportive of him and his methods.

But something seems missing from last season. The backs to the wall firefighting which saw Fletcher emerge like a lion leading the donkeys seems like an age ago. Last season he got 100% out of the players in every game after Reid left, and our problems were due to the disproportionate amount of inexperienced lightweight 17 and 18 yr olds in the team - not for lack of passion, effort, tactical mistakes and the rest of it.

This season has been totally different. Fletch has been given a sizable budget, I'm assuming, to pick and choose who he wants. He has been allowed to develop a squad. He has the luxury of tactics and different systems and different options. And against this backdrop his is floundering. He either plays a good first half then gets outthought, or sets out a first XI which faces problems from the start and we are chasing the game.

So it goes back to this point - Carl Fletcher is a fantastic firefighting manager, with a contagious indomitable spirit and a hero in our hour of need. But Carl Fletcher may not be a thinking manager, a tactician, a modern manager capable of handling a big budget and delivering success.

He has the squad he needs so there can be no excuses. We have options in defence, midfield and most importantly in attack. Fletcher could play in the style of any way he chooses, and change the game in a way he could only dream of last season, with the likes of Chadwick, Gurrieri and Madjo on the bench. But it honestly feels like we fared better knowing Feeney was our only option up front, maybe with Chadwick, and the rest of the team would have to put in a giant shift to get a point, possibly three, because the whole team knew as a unit it was poor.

Maybe there are lessons from last season that Fletcher needs to take into now. Particularly having a settled XI to the extent the fans can pick the team before it is announced, stability, unity etc. It worked well enough last season, so it stands to work better this season with better quality. Except this season its Gurrieri in, then PCH is in favour, Griffiths then Madjo, then Madjo is late so its Griffiths. Lecointe was briefly in favour, but at an attacking midfielder. MacDonald, arguably our best striker, on the wing and moved from position to position. Different systems, different formations - the Argyle unit being a jack of all trades, master of none.

So it's looking clearer to me that Fletcher is not the man for Argyle at this time. But it would be painful sacking him for sentimental reasons. Sadly too many of the problems above seemed to have come to head at once, and reared at a time where we got outplayed at home to one of the poorest teams in the division. When two important players, Blanchard and Jenkins are lost to injury, it probably isn't the best time to discipline another good player for being late. The long ball football, total lack of a technical structure to pass the ball - finishing the game with 5 strikers in most of the midfield places in total desperation. As I say, it was better with 4-5-1, or 4-4-2, just trying to implement two banks of 4 - the luxury of options seems to have ruined Fletcher's ability to manage.

On the bright side - Jenkins and Lowry to return, Blanchard to return, and the possibility of Madjo and MacDonald until the end of the season might actually give us some stability. A decent winger might allow us to play MacDonald up front where he belongs. But Fletcher is running out of time fast. If he gets a few more games he really needs to get the team back to basics and stop trying to overthink things.
 

John Cooper

Cream First
Brickfields Donor
Auction Winner 👨‍⚖️
✨Pasoti Donor✨
Feb 20, 2011
3,209
700
Peverell
the morning after, after long consideration into the matter I remain unchanged. He's got to go.
 
F

Frazer Lloyd-Davies

Guest
I am undecided.

I have been on Fletcher's side, but with every match it is becoming increasingly more difficult to do so. We have only won three times all season with one of these being against a very poor and depleted Portsmouth side and another being somewhat fortunate against Morecambe. Don't get me wrong, I am taking nothing away from the lads with that result, and the effort to turnaround a deficit but you don't get two penalties in the same game often.

Our record this season stands at played 13. Won 3. Drew 6 (With one being Burnley). Lost 4.

I think a win in both of the next two matches, taking the stats to P15 W5 D6 L4 will see Fletcher granted a little more time, and I would probably have to agree with that. On the other hand though, failure to win both, and in the eventuality of losing both and handing Barnet their first win in the league (P15 W3 D6 L6) would probably rightly lead to his dismissal.

If I were James Brent I would see what happened in the next two matches and make it perfectly clear to Carl Fletcher that time is running out.