It was in the newspapers, 'Tommy Gun' I think was some of the headlines, with Sir TT sitting astride a cannon.TynanWozGr8":12tnc32z said:
Mentions of 12K, 13K Green Army from memory.
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Hillsborough verdicts.
- Thread starter Green Rhino
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Mentions of 12K, 13K Green Army from memory.
Seem to remember Pete Baraclough mentioning 15 or 16 thousand in the highlights programme the next day
Agree with IJN
Today is for the families and memories of the 96
Agree with IJN
Today is for the families and memories of the 96
Very moving piece Graham.Graham Clark":2brdy0q2 said:
I had always been a bit on the Xy's side of thinking having been to many grounds in the mid to late 80's. Obviously I was wrong but I know what Xy meant.
As Graham says - this video is a must watch.
I agree with you X Isle. I'm sure most who disagree are too young to remember how it was back then. The whole idea that the Liverpool fans as a body behaved in a controlled, orderly manner is very hard to swallow. Aggression and violence was very much a part of football then, every club including ours had a hooligan element and the bigger the club the bigger the element and Liverpool were a huge club. The tragic events at the Heysel a couple of years before should surely dispell any doubts that Liverpool were exempt from this.X Isle":17u68imk said:
I wonder if X Isle thinks that rape victims who wear short skirts, low-cut tops and go out drinking get what they deserve, because it's not much of a stretch from his logic here.
The jury has had two years to consider this evidence and has come to the conclusion the fans were not responsible and the political establishment and the police colluded to smear Liverpool fans and absolve themselves of blame. X Isle's comments are based on conjecture and hearsay.
The jury has had two years to consider this evidence and has come to the conclusion the fans were not responsible and the political establishment and the police colluded to smear Liverpool fans and absolve themselves of blame. X Isle's comments are based on conjecture and hearsay.
MannameadGreen":2lbb3sy9 said:
Thats unnecessary, not relevant and below the belt.
I have always thought those ticketless fans and those with tickets who rushed in had contributed - if they had not been pushing and shoving outside then the disaster would not have happened.
However, what I have realised today is that is was the police who failed because the crowd did not react in a way that was not anticipated - there was not any more drunkenness or ticketless fans than had been anticipated and there was no significant violence- queuing in a bottle neck in a narrow street where 10100 people had to use 7 turnstiles is ridiculous and the issues that arose should have been anticipated and controlled.
The police were there too protect the public and failed disastrously on so many levels.
The late decision to remove the match commander with previous experience and Duckenfileds admission that he had not evan been to the stadium for ten years before signing off the match day routine, opening the outside gates but not shutting gate C to the central pens, was sheer incompetence on a scale that has rarely been seen and the cover up the probably the greatest injustice of the last 50 years.
My thoughts are with the families today. Its a shame Thatcher isn't alive to see the results of this inquiry, the cover up must have gone right to the top.
I was there and remember the violence and being treated like animals by the police in the late 70s and 80s, and I'm glad those days are long gone and I don't want those days back. Atleast CCTV has also made the police more accountable as well.
Those of us at Bristol and Arsenal remember what it was like to be in a bad crush, particularly at Highbury, which could have been so much worse but for the fact there were not fences at the front and the police eventually, after pushing people back for a while, allowed fans out and into the lower side terracing. There go I but for the grace of god.............
"the South Yorkshire police culture of the 1980s, and its other infamous scandal, Orgreave, were being further exposed. In July, the Independent Police Complaints Commission decided not to formally investigate the force for its alleged assaults on striking miners picketing the Orgreave coking plant in June 1984, and alleged perjury and perverting the course of justice in prosecutions of 95 miners which collapsed a year later."
From the Guardian - lets not only remember what the fans were like in the 80s but also the violence, brutality, lies, and perjury of the police.
From the Guardian - lets not only remember what the fans were like in the 80s but also the violence, brutality, lies, and perjury of the police.
TynanWozGr8":k7zvmhgp said:
I was literally leaning on the crush barrier that collapsed at Arsenal V Derby 1972--I'd bunked off school with my mate Dermot. We were very very lucky. The crowd were brilliant passing people over head, totally calm, far too many people packed into the stadium--and that was the root of the problem, every slight push or shove caused a ripple effect down the terracing. My thoughts are with the Liverpool fans who lost family 27 years ago.
Graham Clark":23rx5h1f said:
Such a sad sad watch.
Watching the chaos on the CCTV footage it's clear that football is now a million miles away from the madness of the 80s. As much as I loved the terraces at the time they were lethal places to be when a goal went in. I remember vividly our goal against Everton in the cup and the surge in the Lyndhurst that followed it.
I grew up loving the charged atmosphere terraces generated but it seems almost surreal now that so many people could be jammed into stadiums with so little thought as to their wellbeing and safety.
Total respect to families and to everyone who suffered that day.
esmer":3u5z92xa said:
Just in case you are still struggling to see there was a cover up..........
When Mr Duckenfield, the police officer in charge of keeping people safe at Hillsborough in 1989, attempted to apologise for the deaths of 96 people, the family members listening to his testimony gasped.
During days of intense questioning at the inquests, he admitted that he had lied about mistakes he made on the day and had kept that lie going for 26 years and through several legal inquiries.
Mr Duckenfield said that, in the pressure of the day, he froze and did not consider the consequences of his actions.
"I think it's fair to say that it is arguably one of the biggest regrets of my life, that I did not foresee where fans would go when they came in through the gates," he said.
He also admitted to a "terrible lie". "Everybody knew the truth, the fans and police knew the truth that we'd opened the gates," he said.
The former chief superintendent also said he "deeply regretted" telling not telling then-FA chief executive Graham Kelly that it was his decision that caused the fatal crush saying he would regret the lie "to his dying day".
Topboy":hb7wkj8t said:
There was only one of the fourteen questions that the jury could not reach a unanimous decision:
From the Independent:
"On Monday, Sir John Goldring explained to the jury of six women and three men that he could accept a decision of 7-2 or 8-1 on the one remaining question they had not agreed on - the question as to whether the Liverpool fans were unlawfully killed"
esmer":fixgaonm said:
Nobody is saying that Liverpool fans behaved in a controlled and orderly manner. They behaved in a manner that was very normal at that time for football crowds. Those whose duty it was to ensure the safety of everyone should have been prepared for the crowd behaving the way it did. There is no way that that behaviour should have caught the police by surprise.
