Trust Section

[JonB]

Thanks Tony.

If I'm honest though I can't follow your train of thought.

For clarity to anyone left interested in any of this - & Dear Lord I doubt there are many left - regarding the PASB there are no background manoeuvrings & marginilisation going on. I am not aware of any meaningful contact being made between any PASB member yet; the club declined my request for information sharing pending identification of all members.

Regarding independence of members, several regard themselves as 'independent'. A somewhat lay membership of the Trust doesn't affect thought.

As such Tony, it may be useful to stop posting opinion & suspicion as fact - goodness only knows the PASB doesn't need any further disrepute brought onto it.

I must say that I feel totally exasperated by all of this manufactured, self-indulgent nonsense.

We are supporters of our club, surely every decision we take must put Plymouth Argyle's needs first? If not, then who are we doing it for?

Lets try & take a considered, emotionally intelligent view of things & act accordingly. I can't see a way forward else.

 

[David Fisher]

Thanks Tony.

If I'm honest though I can't follow your train of thought.

For clarity to anyone left interested in any of this - & Dear Lord I doubt there are many left - regarding the PASB there are no background manoeuvrings & marginilisation going on. I am not aware of any meaningful contact being made between any PASB member yet; the club declined my request for information sharing pending identification of all members.

Regarding independence of members, several regard themselves as 'independent'. A somewhat lay membership of the Trust doesn't affect thought.

As such Tony, it may be useful to stop posting opinion & suspicion as fact - goodness only knows the PASB doesn't need any further disrepute brought onto it.

I must say that I feel totally exasperated by all of this manufactured, self-indulgent nonsense.

We are supporters of our club, surely every decision we take must put Plymouth Argyle's needs first? If not, then who are we doing it for?

Lets try & take a considered, emotionally intelligent view of things & act accordingly. I can't see a way forward else.

Very sensible post Jon.

Has a date been fixed yet for the first meeting of the PASB?

 

[tonycholwell]

Thanks Tony.

If I'm honest though I can't follow your train of thought.

For clarity to anyone left interested in any of this - & Dear Lord I doubt there are many left - regarding the PASB there are no background manoeuvrings & marginilisation going on. I am not aware of any meaningful contact being made between any PASB member yet; the club declined my request for information sharing pending identification of all members.

Regarding independence of members, several regard themselves as 'independent'. A somewhat lay membership of the Trust doesn't affect thought.

As such Tony, it may be useful to stop posting opinion & suspicion as fact - goodness only knows the PASB doesn't need any further disrepute brought onto it.

I must say that I feel totally exasperated by all of this manufactured, self-indulgent nonsense.

We are supporters of our club, surely every decision we take must put Plymouth Argyle's needs first? If not, then who are we doing it for?
Lets try & take a considered, emotionally intelligent view of things & act accordingly. I can't see a way forward else.

We clearly have differences but the highlighted part I can agree with and should be a yardstick for what the PASB does.

As I said, lets revisit in 3 months and see where we are.

 

[JonB]

Thanks Tony.

If I'm honest though I can't follow your train of thought.

For clarity to anyone left interested in any of this - & Dear Lord I doubt there are many left - regarding the PASB there are no background manoeuvrings & marginilisation going on. I am not aware of any meaningful contact being made between any PASB member yet; the club declined my request for information sharing pending identification of all members.

Regarding independence of members, several regard themselves as 'independent'. A somewhat lay membership of the Trust doesn't affect thought.

As such Tony, it may be useful to stop posting opinion & suspicion as fact - goodness only knows the PASB doesn't need any further disrepute brought onto it.

I must say that I feel totally exasperated by all of this manufactured, self-indulgent nonsense.

We are supporters of our club, surely every decision we take must put Plymouth Argyle's needs first? If not, then who are we doing it for?

Lets try & take a considered, emotionally intelligent view of things & act accordingly. I can't see a way forward else.

Very sensible post Jon.

Has a date been fixed yet for the first meeting of the PASB?

Thanks David.

'I don't think so' is the answer to your question. Certainly nothing's been communicated yet. From reading the OS, I think that Chris Webb's preference is for all PASB members to be identified before the next steps happen. I believe that we are still awaiting the supporters clubs nominees.

Regards,

 

[GreenThing]

Why does everyone have to look for a conspiracy behind every decision made on these boards? Simple fact is that the board had been locked a long time ago and hence the content was outdated. The trust make announcements on the main board which are stickied for a while.

A question for Damon - Who was this person(s) who claimed to control pasoti?

 

[David Fisher]

Thanks Tony.

If I'm honest though I can't follow your train of thought.

For clarity to anyone left interested in any of this - & Dear Lord I doubt there are many left - regarding the PASB there are no background manoeuvrings & marginilisation going on. I am not aware of any meaningful contact being made between any PASB member yet; the club declined my request for information sharing pending identification of all members.

Regarding independence of members, several regard themselves as 'independent'. A somewhat lay membership of the Trust doesn't affect thought.

As such Tony, it may be useful to stop posting opinion & suspicion as fact - goodness only knows the PASB doesn't need any further disrepute brought onto it.

I must say that I feel totally exasperated by all of this manufactured, self-indulgent nonsense.

We are supporters of our club, surely every decision we take must put Plymouth Argyle's needs first? If not, then who are we doing it for?

Lets try & take a considered, emotionally intelligent view of things & act accordingly. I can't see a way forward else.

Very sensible post Jon.

Has a date been fixed yet for the first meeting of the PASB?

Thanks David.

'I don't think so' is the answer to your question. Certainly nothing's been communicated yet. From reading the OS, I think that Chris Webb's preference is for all PASB members to be identified before the next steps happen. I believe that we are still awaiting the supporters clubs nominees.

Regards,

With my Plymouth Branch hat on I was told by Peter Jones many weeks ago that Chris Webb would contact us after the election to ascertain the name of our delegate.

As far as I'm aware we've had no contact from Chris as yet.

 

[Andy S]

Joking aside it's an absolute disgrace. This is the Trust we are talking about. Remember the Trust, the body once headed by the Club President that united the fans, played a significant part in saving the Club and now because the Trust is independent, with non disciples on the leadership team the censors have de-listed them from Pasoti.

The North Koreans would be proud. Putin is flying over for lessons. The thought police will tell us what's good for us.

Talking of "disgrace" Mr Lenszner, shall we discuss the actions of members of the Board of Directors of a football club who hide behind a pseudonym to abuse the club's manager?

Or is that acceptable to you?

 

[GreenThing]

Baba, we tried to enter dialogue with the trust over the way to move forward with their board on this forum. Our requests for input from them was silence, eventually we had a reply which was 'we'll get back to you'. There was no more communication from them on the subject. If they wanted differnt then why didn't they say so at the time.

You also bring up deepthroat. Again, that came from a matter which should have stayed within the trust, but unfortunately one mod gave a trust member use of an account to post anonymously. That was our only mistake in the saga, the mod is no longer a mod and we are still carrying the can for it. Time to let it go.

 

[RWW]

Joking aside it's an absolute disgrace. This is the Trust we are talking about. Remember the Trust, the body once headed by the Club President that united the fans, played a significant part in saving the Club and now because the Trust is independent, with non disciples on the leadership team the censors have de-listed them from Pasoti.

The North Koreans would be proud. Putin is flying over for lessons. The thought police will tell us what's good for us.

Talking of "disgrace" Mr Lenszner, shall we discuss the actions of members of the Board of Directors of a football club who hide behind a pseudonym to abuse the club's manager?

Or is that acceptable to you?

Absolutely. We were on the crest of a wave and attracting the biggest average crowds in living memory and what did Argyle do?

We hounded out our manager and caused in fighting.

Somehow we eventually appointed a decent manager in Holloway and seemed to have promised him things that would never happen.

They say that fans get the club they deserve. I think it is more subtle than that. I think the fans get the club the board thinks they deserve.

When the club is not about "football" but is about "personalities", "profit" and "egos" everything will go wrong. It won't go right until we have proper focused leadership.

 

[Gareth Nicholson]

Baba, we tried to enter dialogue with the trust over the way to move forward with their board on this forum. Our requests for input from them was silence, eventually we had a reply which was 'we'll get back to you'. There was no more communication from them on the subject. If they wanted differnt then why didn't they say so at the time.

You also bring up deepthroat. Again, that came from a matter which should have stayed within the trust, but unfortunately one mod gave a trust member use of an account to post anonymously. That was our only mistake in the saga, the mod is no longer a mod and we are still carrying the can for it. Time to let it go.

Hmm, not exactly how I remember it.

Mods sent me a PM entitled 'closure of Trust forum on Pasoti'. That doesn't imply a conversation, it implies a decision. The PM contained a statement to be posted announcing "...PASOTI will no longer host the Trust forum with effect from 1st July 2012. We wish the Trust nothing other than success and hope that it continues to prosper".

It was hardly entering a dialogue. Mods only did that because of a number of people disagreeing with the decision. We didn't engage because we weren't clear at the time what our engagement channels were going to look like. For reasons that should be patently obvious, we were not agreed that a Trust forum on our own site was either advisdable or feasible. One of those obvious reasons is that there were well-founded suspicions that the infantile yet disturbing actions taken by some to discredit the Trust and individual members would continue over to that site.

But locking the Trust board this summer and summarily deleting it from Pasoti history are two different things. There's a lot of nasty stuff which has been wiped from the collective memory, but you've also got rid of some notable successes, some important debates, and some well-thought contributions from those who agree and disagree with the Trust as a concept and in action. Some of that might be fairly important to the 'story so far' forum.

I can see how frustrating it must be for mods who had little or nothing to do with the infantile and stupid actions of some former colleagues to have it constantly brought up. I would like to believe that some things have changed. But that change hasn't exactly been wholesale and there are still people (and I mean sensible, reasonable, people. If I was that way inclined, I might call them REAL people) who sense a general anti-Trust theme in moderation and in the way different people are treated.

The Deep Throat situation was shameful, but to say that one Mod giving a trust member the login details was the only mistake is ridiculous. The tolerance and tacit approval of multi accounts designed to destabilise, drip poison and campaign almsot on a whim is an error for which the price is being paid almost daily.

 

[GreenThing]

Yes Gareth, we let you know that the forum was to close. If you didn't like the decision, you could have replied to the message, but no, you posted on here quite a nasty response. After that we did try to contact on a number of times to discuss it and we had no response.

You're right, Deepthroat was shameful. The mod involved is no longer a mod and we have been trying to clear up the mess ever since. We can't do much more than that, yet it's always used as a stick to beat us with. We're trying to move on and learn from the DT saga, but people won't let us.

 

[Gareth Nicholson]

Yes Gareth, we let you know that the forum was to close. If you didn't like the decision, you could have replied to the message, but no, you posted on here quite a nasty response. After that we did try to contact on a number of times to discuss it and we had no response.

You're right, Deepthroat was shameful. The mod involved is no longer a mod and we have been trying to clear up the mess ever since. We can't do much more than that, yet it's always used as a stick to beat us with. We're trying to move on and learn from the DT saga, but people won't let us.

I think from memory what I posted was a response that essenntially replicated your statement as put across in the PM. In effect, I leaked your announcement. But I don't remember writing anything 'nasty'. Because you've deleted the forum, you can't prove that I did and I can't prove that I didn't. I'll have to hope that my posting history will show I've rarely if ever posted anything other than rational (if a little pompous) argument.

As I said, I sympathise with you. Grouping all mods together and assuming they act the same is silly. But I don't believe it's all cleared up so we can move along. The majority of you - Bubba, Mark P, you, I may disagree with from time to time, but I don't worry that you're not fair and are doing it for any reason other than keeping the ship afloat. I can't say that for Postey, but that's by the by.

 

[GreenThing]

Ok, nasty was a bit wide of the mark. Maybe curt would have been a better word.

 

[Paul_Roberts]

Ok I am now going to have my Chowell moment.

This football club should hang its head in shame for diluting the influence of the trust by the creation of the joke that PASB is. The truth is that the Trust is independent and the people controlling the person controlling the football club just cant handle that. Everyone must be on message. We will not tolerate any form of disaffection. I would love to know how many
people who voted in the PASB elections were genuine POTD supporters who were not part of any of the supporters groups. If someone is interested enough to vote for a rep then they would already have been interested enough in being part of one of the supporters groups. The whole idea of PASB was to have a supporters group that could be controlled.

If i have a criticism of the Trust right now it is they have been too passive throughout this joke of a creation. I understand why, but I would have loved a Chris Webb type leader to fight against it. And honestly Pasoti is a mouthpiece of the controller. It is why ATD has hecome popular - independence of thought. Yes that attracts freaks but it is a free country - even the BNP are allowed to put up candidates in our General Elections, the downside of free speech. But I would rather that than censorship.

Tony Chowell moment over. Unlike Tony I will apologise if I have pist anyone off with my rant.

You've only just reached that conclusion now, Damon? Better late than never I guess.

 

[BG21]

It's all well and good going back over the moderators past problems, mistakes have been made in the past but we know all that, we have to deal with those mistakes made made on a daily basis as you have already said Gareth.

However what I feel needs to be done now is we hold discussions on where we go next, discussions over Womble's earlier suggestion are ongoing, I myself would appreciate it if we could get a thought from the Trust on this suggestion to aid the decision making process of the moderators (this could be a public or private thought). When the Trust forum was closed we said that we were more than happy for the Trust to post it's announcements on the main board, an offer in which you have taken up on, however what we don't know is how successful or unsuccessful the current arrangements have been for the Trust, at the time we had hoped the move would bring more readership to the Trust's announcements, has this been the case? Or would a shared forum with the PASB be of more benefit to the Trust?

We can all sit here arguing over the details and pointing the finger at one-another until we are all blue in the face but it will get us no further than where we are at present. We are all adults here all working for the same end result, a successful football club in which we can support. I have faith that James Brent will deliver his promises and that he will consider the opinions of the fans to the benefit of our football club. However none of us are certain that this will be the case and so we need a voice and if we want that voice to be heard then it will have to be done as a fanbase united because this squabbling although very nice for our egos will only ever lead to a broken fanbase (just to make things clear this is not an attack on Mr Brent by any means but one day he could sell the club, then where does supporter representation stand? My point is that nothing is certain and so we as fans must be prepared with our own channels of communication which cannot be achieved unless we work together which at present is sadly not the case).