This in an Absolute Disgrace

[Pilgrim61]

I certainly agree with your title Commander!

:scarf:

I?d also add

Disgust
Disappointment
Disaster
Disaffected
Disapproval
Disarray
Disbelief
Discontent
Disconsolate
Disenchanted
Dismal
Disillusioned
Distressing

And a large Disaronno!

 

[Dan Ellard]

1) Look at who we've played the last 4/5 games. All top 6 sides or near enough, mostly away. when you're doing your pools coupons how many would you honestly expect us to win? The fixture list hasn't been kind to CF after the Dorchester debacle. The next 4/5 games are much more winnable, we should see a difference.

To pick out this point in particular - before the previous 4/5 games (so in the first 15 games of the season) we barely played any sides in the top half - a lot of "winnable" games as you put it - and we won 4. Hardly breathtaking form is it?

Not at all. But it was upper mid-table form, which is surely all we were expecting?

"Upper mid-table" ???

The highest we have been all season is 15th - when we reached that "peak" (after Rochdale), we had played 13 games - 8 of those were against the teams currently occupying the bottom 9 in the division. If that's not an "easy" run of games I don't know what is. And after 13 games we still only had 17 points. As soon as we have had a period of matches against the better sides in this league, we have lost almost every week.

 

[abbotsway]

Welcome to your opinion - well made.

We'll agree to disagree ;-)

It wasn't well made,though.He says about the recent fixture list being tough.Really? Lets look at tonights results of teams Argyle have played recently.

Gillingham 2 Exeter 3
Rotherham 2 Wycombe 3
Chesterfield 4 Cheltenham 1
Burton 0 Aldershot 1
Fleetwood 1 Accrington 3

Those results would hardly suggest that the teams played recently are world beaters and the most significant point is that they were all achieved by teams with considerably less reources than Argyle should have.Its just excuse making,if indeed the budget allocated to Fletcher was as large as has been mooted.I hope that come the final reckoning at the end of the season,the results achieved by Aldershot and Wycombe tonight are not seen as turning points in their respective seasons to the detriment of Argyle's status-we are sinking fast and urgent action needs to be taken to address the situation.

Poor Commander Funk. Argument totally crushed! Excellent work, greenskin.

 

[Ollieargyle9]

1) Look at who we've played the last 4/5 games. All top 6 sides or near enough, mostly away. when you're doing your pools coupons how many would you honestly expect us to win? The fixture list hasn't been kind to CF after the Dorchester debacle. The next 4/5 games are much more winnable, we should see a difference.

To pick out this point in particular - before the previous 4/5 games (so in the first 15 games of the season) we barely played any sides in the top half - a lot of "winnable" games as you put it - and we won 4. Hardly breathtaking form is it?

Lets put this point to bed shall we?

League table
Gillingham Draw 2-2 (H)
Port Vale Loss 3-1 (H)
Cheltenahm Loss 2-1 (A)
Fleetwood Loss 3-0 (A)
Bradford Loss 1-0 (A)
Rochdale Won 3-1 (H)
Exeter
Southend Draw 1-1 (H)
Northampton Won 3-1 (H)
Burton Loss 2-1 (H)
Rotherham Loss 1-0 (A)
Chesterfield
Torquay Draw 1-1 (A)
Accrington
York
Dagenham Draw 0-0 (A)
Morecambe Won 3-2 (A)
Oxford Utd Loss 2-1 (A)
Plymouth N/A
Wimbledon Loss 2-1 (H)
Bristol Rvrs Draw 0-0 (H)
Aldershot Loss 2-0 (H)
---------------------------
Wycombe Draw 1-1 (A)
Barnet Won 4-1 (A)

As you can see the bottom half is no more green than the top, the only reason it has a couple of grey gaps in between those red defeats is because we are down the bottom seperating a couple of reds.

My point is the so called "winnable" games don't seem to be going any better than those that are considered a lot harder to win. Who we play is irrelevant, we just can't seem to beat anybody top or bottom at the moment.

 

[loyal1970]

I've only skimmed through a couple of threads tonight, but they have reminded me why I don't come on PASOTI when we've lost a few games. All responsible for it should be ashamed the crushing negativity, frankly it's a big chunk of the reason why Plymouth never gets what it deserves.

1) Look at who we've played the last 4/5 games. All top 6 sides or near enough, mostly away. when you're doing your pools coupons how many would you honestly expect us to win? The fixture list hasn't been kind to CF after the Dorchester debacle. The next 4/5 games are much more winnable, we should see a difference.
2) This is a young team, the commentators picked up on it at Dorchester, their team actually had more league experience than ours!. They will be inconsistant, that's the problem with young/inexperienced players. The slating of Rhys Griffiths is ludicrous as are the expectations pinned on him. Live in the real world.
3) Were people really expecting a play-off push? I mean really? Anybody? Mid table was always the goal, and all teams have bad runs, it's not like we're being stuffed every week.
4) Stop picking on players! Remember how Durrell Berry has improved beyond recognition. If we'd spent money on proven players I'd understand it but getting on peoples' back surely solves nothing. It's insanity.
5) League table, 3 years (and a lot of money spent) into Sir Alex Ferguson's reign: http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-one-old/1989-1990/table/1989-12-30.

Be patient. You can't build a team overnight with no money, it takes time. Circumstances intervene sometimes. Plus we have nothing like the resources Luggy or Warnock for example had.

And with that, I'm going to find something less soul destroying to do.

point number 1 i have seen most of them games and to be honest it makes our situation worse because if they are the best in the league we are f....d they were all poor sides and we could not beat any of them.

 

[Elias]

can i just point out the argyle have beaten none of the teams mentioned above this season, naturally we are yet to play exeter accrington & chesterfield.

 

[Greenblooded1]

I've only skimmed through a couple of threads tonight, but they have reminded me why I don't come on PASOTI when we've lost a few games. All responsible for it should be ashamed the crushing negativity, frankly it's a big chunk of the reason why Plymouth never gets what it deserves.

1) Look at who we've played the last 4/5 games. All top 6 sides or near enough, mostly away. when you're doing your pools coupons how many would you honestly expect us to win? The fixture list hasn't been kind to CF after the Dorchester debacle. The next 4/5 games are much more winnable, we should see a difference.
2) This is a young team, the commentators picked up on it at Dorchester, their team actually had more league experience than ours!. They will be inconsistant, that's the problem with young/inexperienced players. The slating of Rhys Griffiths is ludicrous as are the expectations pinned on him. Live in the real world.
3) Were people really expecting a play-off push? I mean really? Anybody? Mid table was always the goal, and all teams have bad runs, it's not like we're being stuffed every week.
4) Stop picking on players! Remember how Durrell Berry has improved beyond recognition. If we'd spent money on proven players I'd understand it but getting on peoples' back surely solves nothing. It's insanity.
5) League table, 3 years (and a lot of money spent) into Sir Alex Ferguson's reign: http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-one-old/1989-1990/table/1989-12-30.

Be patient. You can't build a team overnight with no money, it takes time. Circumstances intervene sometimes. Plus we have nothing like the resources Luggy or Warnock for example had.

And with that, I'm going to find something less soul destroying to do.

Look at the next division down & you'll see we finished 16th...

it's not like we're being stuffed every week.

Feels like it & has been for years.

 

[Keyham Pilgrim]

Dont be nasty to the commander I would like to know what he has been drinking before he leaves us because I could do with a pint of it right now.

 

[anotherfan]

I have to agree.

Frankly, it was always going to be another season of struggling. Compared the to the beginning of last year, Argyle have a better league position this year. The much vaunted "competitive budget", based on all the evidence never materialised (if it even existed in the first place).

Simply put, there's no money for players, no money for a manager, no money to pay staff, and the club is still struggling to turn break even.

The question isn't whether we need different personnel (on and off field) it's whether we can afford them. And we can't.

At the start of the season, I would have been happy with just avoiding relegation (maybe hovering just above the relegation zone for the season). I think any talk of a mid table finish or even competing on a level playing field with clubs in the playoff zone really underestimates the profound structural problems the club faces as well as the long uphill battle to become a stable ongoing concern.

A lot of people want Fletcher out (and based on results, his position is hanging by a thread), however what's the alternative? We can't afford anyone else. And even if we could afford a manager with pedigree, we can't give him a decent (or any) budget to build a team. What manager is going to want to take on that job?

I want Argyle to to well as much as the next guy, but there needs to be a bit of reality injected into the discourse.

 

[Jabba the gut ecfc]

I have to agree.

Frankly, it was always going to be another season of struggling. Compared the to the beginning of last year, Argyle have a better league position this year. The much vaunted "competitive budget", based on all the evidence never materialised (if it even existed in the first place).

Simply put, there's no money for players, no money for a manager, no money to pay staff, and the club is still struggling to turn break even.

The question isn't whether we need different personnel (on and off field) it's whether we can afford them. And we can't.

I think I'm beginning to understand.

A Trust model was not for you (as in the second-person plural) because you believe it would require the club to stick to a budget below that sufficient to restore PAFC to it's "rightful place". Consequently you could care less about the benefits of fan ownership, intangible and otherwise (and in my opinion there are many). I can really see why you've gone for a rich owner...

...who requires the club to stick to a budget below that sufficient to restore PAFC to it's "rightful place".

???

Still, the Reluctant Bidder has saved the legal entity/property deal that is PAFC, so I guess you can all laugh at Glasgow Rangers while slapping the Reluctant Bidder on the back. Of course, in the fullness of time, they'll almost certainly rise again, with the aid of a "competitive budget" that actually means something. I suspect no-one will give a t*ss about the legal documents proclaiming a technical distinction between the "old" and "new" Rangers when that happens, so I'd get that gloating in now if I were you.

A lot of people want Fletcher out (and based on results, his position is hanging by a thread), however what's the alternative? We can't afford anyone else. And even if we could afford a manager with pedigree, we can't give him a decent (or any) budget to build a team. What manager is going to want to take on that job?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there something of a yawning chasm between a manager with pedigree and a manager with virtually NO managerial and coaching experience whatsoever, who I understand had little more pedigree than a "B" licence when appointed and only obtained that five minutes before he got the job?

The financial argument seems somewhat dubious, even if you swallow the Reluctant Bidder's line. Tisdale came to us from Step 7 when we were in Step 5, so I would be surprised if he was on much more than Fletcher is now, if not even less. Similarly the Ferguson analogy that somebody made earlier is just ludicrous. Ferguson joined United after success at two or three previous clubs, winning titles and European Trophies along the way, at a time when Scottish football was a much more credible force than it is today

Fletcher is an admirable person and player and may make a good manager one day, but are his supporters really sure that he's in the right job at the right time? I struggle to believe that there aren't one or two Tisdales in the lower leagues who aren't getting a look in at clubs with the budgets to attract the usual supects. In fact in the long term Fletcher would probably be better off doing the hard yards in the lower leagues, like Tisdale, Justin Edinburgh, Dean Holdsworth and other bright young managers. Inexperienced players, under an inexperienced manager, in a difficult environment, doesn't seem like the best combination.

Never mind - the Reluctant Bidder knows what he's doing (in more ways than one).

 

[Mr Smith]

I've only skimmed through a couple of threads tonight, but they have reminded me why I don't come on PASOTI when we've lost a few games. All responsible for it should be ashamed the crushing negativity, frankly it's a big chunk of the reason why Plymouth never gets what it deserves.

Agreed, I also can't believe how many 'fans' actually wanted us to lose last night.

No Bottle, the lot of them.

 

[esmer]

I've only skimmed through a couple of threads tonight, but they have reminded me why I don't come on PASOTI when we've lost a few games. All responsible for it should be ashamed the crushing negativity, frankly it's a big chunk of the reason why Plymouth never gets what it deserves.

1) Look at who we've played the last 4/5 games. All top 6 sides or near enough, mostly away. when you're doing your pools coupons how many would you honestly expect us to win? The fixture list hasn't been kind to CF after the Dorchester debacle. The next 4/5 games are much more winnable, we should see a difference.
2) This is a young team, the commentators picked up on it at Dorchester, their team actually had more league experience than ours!. They will be inconsistant, that's the problem with young/inexperienced players. The slating of Rhys Griffiths is ludicrous as are the expectations pinned on him. Live in the real world.
3) Were people really expecting a play-off push? I mean really? Anybody? Mid table was always the goal, and all teams have bad runs, it's not like we're being stuffed every week.
4) Stop picking on players! Remember how Durrell Berry has improved beyond recognition. If we'd spent money on proven players I'd understand it but getting on peoples' back surely solves nothing. It's insanity.
5) League table, 3 years (and a lot of money spent) into Sir Alex Ferguson's reign: http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-one-old/1989-1990/table/1989-12-30.

Be patient. You can't build a team overnight with no money, it takes time. Circumstances intervene sometimes. Plus we have nothing like the resources Luggy or Warnock for example had.

And with that, I'm going to find something less soul destroying to do.

All excellent points but I fear you may be wasting your time airing them on here.

 

[crownhill pilgrim]

I don't disagree that it's time for a managerial change, but it's embarrassing to read comments from grown men (I'm presuming they are men) that are so sulky, childish, over-dramatic and, at times, inclusive of personal insults against the management team.

I'd rather read threads that discuss new managerial options rather than all the foot-stomping and dummy-spitting.

 

[The Doctor]

1) Look at who we've played the last 4/5 games. All top 6 sides or near enough, mostly away. when you're doing your pools coupons how many would you honestly expect us to win? The fixture list hasn't been kind to CF after the Dorchester debacle. The next 4/5 games are much more winnable, we should see a difference.

To pick out this point in particular - before the previous 4/5 games (so in the first 15 games of the season) we barely played any sides in the top half - a lot of "winnable" games as you put it - and we won 4. Hardly breathtaking form is it?

Lets put this point to bed shall we?

League table
Gillingham Draw 2-2 (H)
Port Vale Loss 3-1 (H)
Cheltenahm Loss 2-1 (A)
Fleetwood Loss 3-0 (A)
Bradford Loss 1-0 (A)
Rochdale Won 3-1 (H)
Exeter
Southend Draw 1-1 (H)
Northampton Won 3-1 (H)
Burton Loss 2-1 (H)
Rotherham Loss 1-0 (A)
Chesterfield
Torquay Draw 1-1 (A)
Accrington
York
Dagenham Draw 0-0 (A)
Morecambe Won 3-2 (A)
Oxford Utd Loss 2-1 (A)
Plymouth N/A
Wimbledon Loss 2-1 (H)
Bristol Rvrs Draw 0-0 (H)
Aldershot Loss 2-0 (H)
---------------------------
Wycombe Draw 1-1 (A)
Barnet Won 4-1 (A)

As you can see the bottom half is no more green than the top, the only reason it has a couple of grey gaps in between those red defeats is because we are down the bottom seperating a couple of reds.

My point is the so called "winnable" games don't seem to be going any better than those that are considered a lot harder to win. Who we play is irrelevant, we just can't seem to beat anybody top or bottom at the moment.

Next someone will come along and say that in League 2 a team is just as likely to win 6 in a row as lose 6 in a row...

 

[Ade the green]

1) Look at who we've played the last 4/5 games. All top 6 sides or near enough, mostly away. when you're doing your pools coupons how many would you honestly expect us to win? The fixture list hasn't been kind to CF after the Dorchester debacle. The next 4/5 games are much more winnable, we should see a difference.

To pick out this point in particular - before the previous 4/5 games (so in the first 15 games of the season) we barely played any sides in the top half - a lot of "winnable" games as you put it - and we won 4. Hardly breathtaking form is it?

Lets put this point to bed shall we?

League table
Gillingham Draw 2-2 (H)
Port Vale Loss 3-1 (H)
Cheltenahm Loss 2-1 (A)
Fleetwood Loss 3-0 (A)
Bradford Loss 1-0 (A)
Rochdale Won 3-1 (H)
Exeter
Southend Draw 1-1 (H)
Northampton Won 3-1 (H)
Burton Loss 2-1 (H)
Rotherham Loss 1-0 (A)
Chesterfield
Torquay Draw 1-1 (A)
Accrington
York
Dagenham Draw 0-0 (A)
Morecambe Won 3-2 (A)
Oxford Utd Loss 2-1 (A)
Plymouth N/A
Wimbledon Loss 2-1 (H)
Bristol Rvrs Draw 0-0 (H)
Aldershot Loss 2-0 (H)
---------------------------
Wycombe Draw 1-1 (A)
Barnet Won 4-1 (A)

As you can see the bottom half is no more green than the top, the only reason it has a couple of grey gaps in between those red defeats is because we are down the bottom seperating a couple of reds.

My point is the so called "winnable" games don't seem to be going any better than those that are considered a lot harder to win. Who we play is irrelevant, we just can't seem to beat anybody top or bottom at the moment.

Good point almost made but, that is the table today and does not necessarily show where they were when we played them. I'm almost sure both Burton and Rotherham were higher. Not much difference.

Also, it shows that by and large we've lost by the odd goal more times than got slaughtered and that when we've won we must have been on fire as each victory has seen us score 3 goals.
Probably makes no difference but there is also no mention of how many players we've ended the games with.
I think that without producing a spreadsheet the one glaring error that Carl Fletcher has made is that he will not leave the bloody team alone from one game to the next.