Humble pie for doubting Fletch thread.

[CarolinaGreen]

I think coming out of administration saved our bacon more than anything Fletcher did. Once we could bring in players, our budget was significantly higher than most in the league and it really should not have been that hard to turn things around.

Just how long are we going to have to put up with these desperate attempts at deflecting praise from Fletcher, pretending it was a fluke/some other reason :sigh: Is this the way people who said we were dead on certs for relegation weeks or months ago find solace now? Judging by the content of the post you'll almost think he was upset about our current situation.

 

[loyal1970]

I think coming out of administration saved our bacon more than anything Fletcher did. Once we could bring in players, our budget was significantly higher than most in the league and it really should not have been that hard to turn things around.

Just how long are we going to have to put up with these desperate attempts at deflecting praise from Fletcher, pretending it was a fluke/some other reason :sigh: Is this the way people who said we were dead on certs for relegation weeks or months ago find solace now? Judging by the content of the post you'll almost think he was upset about our current situation.

Not always the case. I never for once thought we would go down, indeed I am currently holding a nice bet on Betfair where I layed Argyle to be relegated whilst odds on Fletcher deserves praise for both his tightening of the defence (the 4th best since November) as well the improvement in disciplinary record. There is a difference though between becoming hard to beat and being imaginative enough to unlock oppositions defence on a regular basis. As recent as Northampton away people on here were questioning Fletcher's attacking intent. Is he good enough to build a balanced team capable of achieving more than 70 points? I'm not so sure.

Personally I think it would be best for all if Fletch took this achievement on his CV, and went and furthered his training as a coach with a Premiership club whilst getting his necessary badges and we found a Manager with a promotion on his CV. Who that is on our budget, God only knows, thankfully that is not my decision.

All I would say is that the decision needs to be made as soon as our escape from relegation is confirmed.

:funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: are you serious.

 

[Iggy]

Idiocy. :clap:

Because people won't agree with your opinion as you told them to? Your arrogance earlier in the thread weakens your argument. Sadly one of the worst things about Pasoti is those who think that no one should oppose their point of view.

No, because someone related my post to idiocy, hence me remarking on it, might I suggest you read posts before commenting?

As stated my remark referred to your post earlier in the thread. What's happened with you Iggy? You used to be very readable, original and entertaining - now you snap at the earliest opportunity if someone doesn't see things 100% your way. As I posted earlier you still make valid points, but the attitude that comes with them makes reading your posts less of a pleasant experience.

As for snapping, I am only defending my point of view and replying to the insults thrown at me. Constantly getting told that, "I don't get it/understand, troll, prat, idiot, keyboard warrior, freak, wierdo, coward, tends to make one a tad defensive. Oh and getting a weeks suspension for trolling and not even being told which post was to blame. I don't toe the party line, that used to be welcomed on here, maybe calling Fletcher "rubbish" was not the best phrase but it is how I feel. I am like I am in real life as I am on here, opinionated, which is fine whilst my opinion is shared by the majority, gets a little rocky when it doesn't, don't worry I can cope.

 

[Mr Smith]

Personally I think it would be best for all if Fletch took this achievement on his CV, and went and furthered his training as a coach with a Premiership club whilst getting his necessary badges and we found a Manager with a promotion on his CV. Who that is on our budget, God only knows, thankfully that is not my decision.

What would Fletch have to have done for you to want to keep him?

Promotion? Playoffs? Midtable?

Were almost safe and you want him out in place of a fantasy manager that we can't afford :doh:

 

[Manchester Green]

Idiocy. :clap:

Because people won't agree with your opinion as you told them to? Your arrogance earlier in the thread weakens your argument. Sadly one of the worst things about Pasoti is those who think that no one should oppose their point of view.

No, because someone related my post to idiocy, hence me remarking on it, might I suggest you read posts before commenting?

As stated my remark referred to your post earlier in the thread. What's happened with you Iggy? You used to be very readable, original and entertaining - now you snap at the earliest opportunity if someone doesn't see things 100% your way. As I posted earlier you still make valid points, but the attitude that comes with them makes reading your posts less of a pleasant experience.

As for snapping, I am only defending my point of view and replying to the insults thrown at me. Constantly getting told that, "I don't get it/understand, troll, prat, idiot, keyboard warrior, freak, wierdo, coward, tends to make one a tad defensive. Oh and getting a weeks suspension for trolling and not even being told which post was to blame. I don't toe the party line, that used to be welcomed on here, maybe calling Fletcher "rubbish" was not the best phrase but it is how I feel. I am like I am in real life as I am on here, opinionated, which is fine whilst my opinion is shared by the majority, gets a little rocky when it doesn't, don't worry I can cope.

It's a bit rich saying daft things like "Brent has saddled the club with debt", then when people disagree with you saying "no-one likes debate on here". People are on here to comment and debate on Argyle. Just because they disagree with you, it doesn't mean they don't like debate. In actual fact, by disagreeing with you they are surely debating with you. Or would you rather everyone fell in line with your views? That'd hardly be a hot-bed of debate, would it? Hypocritical, much. Plenty of differing views on this thread if you took the time to look. And there've been plenty of differing views on Fletch, certain players, and how the club is run for weeks on end.

If you "can cope", then you ought to stop moaning and saying people hate debate whenever they disagree with you. And if you carry on coming up with some of the gems you've come up with, expect plenty of disagreement!

 

[Manchester Green]

I have been very disappointed by some of the decisions Fletch has made, Walton captain when we have real leaders in Purse and Wotton. At times his tactics have been woeful and very very negative. But lets give him a lot of credit for the signings he has made, the way he has shored our defence up and also the way he has made us very difficult to beat. No one knows if a different manager would have kept us up. I feel where we really need to progress next season is by learning to kill teams off when 1-0 up. Hopefully now the pressure is off, we will gain the confidence to do that. A job well done Fletch, whatever myself and others feel about some of your decisions and tactics you have achieved what we all wanted. Your job was to keep us in this league with no managerial experience and I for one feel you have now earnt the right to carry on the job you have started and now try get us up to the next level. Thank you Fletch. Onwards and upwards.

Agree with most of this.

Don't think taking the armband off Walton would have been productive, though. Players look to leaders, and I'm sure they looked to Purse and Wotton despite their lack of armband, so I think Fletch did the right thing sticking with Walton as captain rather than upsetting the apple-cart. When Walton was appointed, he was the most logical choice for captain, which sums up what a dire state we were in.

 

[Ave IT]

I have been very disappointed by some of the decisions Fletch has made, Walton captain when we have real leaders in Purse and Wotton. At times his tactics have been woeful and very very negative. But lets give him a lot of credit for the signings he has made, the way he has shored our defence up and also the way he has made us very difficult to beat. No one knows if a different manager would have kept us up. I feel where we really need to progress next season is by learning to kill teams off when 1-0 up. Hopefully now the pressure is off, we will gain the confidence to do that. A job well done Fletch, whatever myself and others feel about some of your decisions and tactics you have achieved what we all wanted. Your job was to keep us in this league with no managerial experience and I for one feel you have now earnt the right to carry on the job you have started and now try get us up to the next level. Thank you Fletch. Onwards and upwards.

Agree with most of this.

Don't think taking the armband off Walton would have been productive, though. Players look to leaders, and I'm sure they looked to Purse and Wotton despite their lack of armband, so I think Fletch did the right thing sticking with Walton as captain rather than upsetting the apple-cart. When Walton was appointed, he was the most logical choice for captain, which sums up what a dire state we were in.

Quite agree. It's easy to say from behind a keyboard that Purse or Wotton are more logical choices as captain but telling a senior player who went through the whole administration saga that you're taking away the armband to give to someone who you've just brought in risks creating ill feeling - and not just for Walton. We may have varying opinions on Fletcher's tactical nous but no one can seriously doubt the way he held the dressing room together. Every player who took the field always gave 100% (not something we've been able to say for several years now) and that was the reason that even at our lowest points I thought we had a good chance. It was something that James Brent remarked on when he referred to Fletcher's work ethic and said "he owns the dressing room" - and why I always believed it was right not to go for the knee jerk option of sacking him for a more experienced 'outsider'. Next season will be a whole new challenge though, requiring different managerial skills - but Fletch has more than earned his right to have a go.

 

[fishypilgrim]

Whichever way you look at it CF has done pretty much what was required of him . I.E 43 points from 33 games . Enough to keep us up from a position where everybody in football would have said we were doooomed . The only way that could be done was by first of all getting the defence sorted and losing less players to suspension and injury . That has pretty much been acheived . Next season is when we will see what CF has to offer . When he has had the opportunity to say thanks to the loan players who have done so much to help our cause . To decide who will fit into the game plan next season and who won't . To pick up the kind of players who will fit into the Argyle mentality and wage restrictions (which are sure to be in force next season and for the foreseeable future ) and to have a full pre season honing fitness and skills .

 

[Pafcintheplace]

I'd give Fletcher a 2 year deal, not for keeping us up, but the manner in which he will do so. Also offers some protection should he get poached by a club in a higher league i.e. we'd get some decent compo.
I'm convinced there may well be a sizeable points margin between ourselves and the 23rd placed team by the time we face Cheltenham, say 6-10 points.

What he has done, is almost as miraculous as what Paul Ince did by keeping Macclesfield up a few years ago.
Ok so he's been supported by JB, and allowed to bring in experience& a mentor, but that should not detract from what will be a great achievement by CF, and everyone involved, when we confirm out League status.

 

[Iggy]

Idiocy. :clap:

Because people won't agree with your opinion as you told them to? Your arrogance earlier in the thread weakens your argument. Sadly one of the worst things about Pasoti is those who think that no one should oppose their point of view.

No, because someone related my post to idiocy, hence me remarking on it, might I suggest you read posts before commenting?

As stated my remark referred to your post earlier in the thread. What's happened with you Iggy? You used to be very readable, original and entertaining - now you snap at the earliest opportunity if someone doesn't see things 100% your way. As I posted earlier you still make valid points, but the attitude that comes with them makes reading your posts less of a pleasant experience.

As for snapping, I am only defending my point of view and replying to the insults thrown at me. Constantly getting told that, "I don't get it/understand, troll, prat, idiot, keyboard warrior, freak, wierdo, coward, tends to make one a tad defensive. Oh and getting a weeks suspension for trolling and not even being told which post was to blame. I don't toe the party line, that used to be welcomed on here, maybe calling Fletcher "rubbish" was not the best phrase but it is how I feel. I am like I am in real life as I am on here, opinionated, which is fine whilst my opinion is shared by the majority, gets a little rocky when it doesn't, don't worry I can cope.

It's a bit rich saying daft things like "Brent has saddled the club with debt", then when people disagree with you saying "no-one likes debate on here". People are on here to comment and debate on Argyle. Just because they disagree with you, it doesn't mean they don't like debate. In actual fact, by disagreeing with you they are surely debating with you. Or would you rather everyone fell in line with your views? That'd hardly be a hot-bed of debate, would it? Hypocritical, much. Plenty of differing views on this thread if you took the time to look. And there've been plenty of differing views on Fletch, certain players, and how the club is run for weeks on end.

If you "can cope", then you ought to stop moaning and saying people hate debate whenever they disagree with you. And if you carry on coming up with some of the gems you've come up with, expect plenty of disagreement!

For the very last time, it's the insults that I am complaining about, do you understand?

 

[jerryatricjanner]

I think coming out of administration saved our bacon more than anything Fletcher did. Once we could bring in players, our budget was significantly higher than most in the league and it really should not have been that hard to turn things around.

Just how long are we going to have to put up with these desperate attempts at deflecting praise from Fletcher, pretending it was a fluke/some other reason :sigh: Is this the way people who said we were dead on certs for relegation weeks or months ago find solace now? Judging by the content of the post you'll almost think he was upset about our current situation.

Carolina, I just don't think it is fair for you to interpret Green Flashes post like that and basically put words in his mouth. I think he is giving an honest opinion as he sees it, nothing more, whether you happen to agree with his view or not. I don't agree particularly with what he said but see where he's coming from and don't for one minute interpret it as you have.

 

[Manchester Green]

You also repeatedly complain about lack of debate on PASOTI, but it seems you've given up on that one for now.

Ad-hominem insults, fair enough I agree there's no need for them, but if your post is idiotic - like levelling crazy, unfounded allegations on the club owner for "saddling the club with debt" and then not retracting them - expect to be criticised for "idiocy".

 

[Iggy]

Idiocy. :clap:

Because people won't agree with your opinion as you told them to? Your arrogance earlier in the thread weakens your argument. Sadly one of the worst things about Pasoti is those who think that no one should oppose their point of view.

No, because someone related my post to idiocy, hence me remarking on it, might I suggest you read posts before commenting?

As stated my remark referred to your post earlier in the thread. What's happened with you Iggy? You used to be very readable, original and entertaining - now you snap at the earliest opportunity if someone doesn't see things 100% your way. As I posted earlier you still make valid points, but the attitude that comes with them makes reading your posts less of a pleasant experience.

As for snapping, I am only defending my point of view and replying to the insults thrown at me. Constantly getting told that, "I don't get it/understand, troll, prat, idiot, keyboard warrior, freak, wierdo, coward, tends to make one a tad defensive. Oh and getting a weeks suspension for trolling and not even being told which post was to blame. I don't toe the party line, that used to be welcomed on here, maybe calling Fletcher "rubbish" was not the best phrase but it is how I feel. I am like I am in real life as I am on here, opinionated, which is fine whilst my opinion is shared by the majority, gets a little rocky when it doesn't, don't worry I can cope.

It's a bit rich saying daft things like "Brent has saddled the club with debt", then when people disagree with you saying "no-one likes debate on here". People are on here to comment and debate on Argyle. Just because they disagree with you, it doesn't mean they don't like debate. In actual fact, by disagreeing with you they are surely debating with you. Or would you rather everyone fell in line with your views? That'd hardly be a hot-bed of debate, would it? Hypocritical, much. Plenty of differing views on this thread if you took the time to look. And there've been plenty of differing views on Fletch, certain players, and how the club is run for weeks on end.

If you "can cope", then you ought to stop moaning and saying people hate debate whenever they disagree with you. And if you carry on coming up with some of the gems you've come up with, expect plenty of disagreement!

For the very last time, it's the insults that I am complaining about, do you understand?

You also repeatedly complain about lack of debate on PASOTI, but it seems you've given up on that one for now.

Ad-hominem insults, fair enough I agree there's no need for them, but if your post is idiotic - like levelling crazy, unfounded allegations on the club owner for "saddling the club with debt" and then not retracting them - expect to be criticised for "idiocy".

Idiot. :wave:

 

[GreenSam]

Iggy, just trying to be reasonable here right,

You often speak about stifling debate on Pasoti and people scoffing when you don't agree with their point of view right?

Yet in another breath you disregard others right to opinion by telling us "you know what I say is true".

Can you not see the logical hole you've dug there?

 

[Mark Pedlar]

An extreme view will always elicit an aggressive response from the other extreme and sometines from the middle ground, depending on how extreme the view is. Those holding the view will believe that the aggression represents others stifling their view. It's just one of those things. It happens on both "sides" of the debate as it happens on all other web-sites. But hey we don't need the insults whoever is throwing them - everyone needs to concentrate on the debate and support any allegations with some hard evidence.