Goals (striker debate)

[philevs]

I love watching Mayor and think he’s a very gifted player. But unless the management acts and gets him to change what he is producing this season,
I think he’s at risk again - bizarrely for someone with his skills - of being something of a liability, rather than the outstanding asset he ought to be, given the amount of possession that is channelled to our left side.
He needs to shoot on sight, and put crosses in with his left foot at all opportunities. Then we’d have far more goalscoring chances than we are currently creating.

 

[mutley marvel]

In the last 3 games we have played we have created chances but lacked composure or the goalie has made a top drawer save at the crucial moment- i would be more worried if we hadn't created anything

We have played 3 teams in the league above us & not embarrassed ourselves & lost by 1 goal in each match- yet for some people it is not good enough

Reading other peoples thoughts about we need another striker we need this that & another- we have 2 weeks before the season starts - all the pre season training is gearing up to 7th August when RL will pick the team he feels is capable of beating Rotherham

Yes the transfer window closes on 31st August no doubt we have missed out on targets but RL just wont go a sign someone for the sake of it

Some people have no patience & seem to think throwing money at it will give us a 20 plus goal season striker - luckily for us we have a chairman who does not believe in throwing good money after bad

The 3 strikers we have are more than good enough it is just some people choose to bash them because of what happened from January to May

This season is a clean slate

 

[Shoenice]

Don't you think the forwards should be creating some chances themselves rather than waiting for chances to be put on a plate - which they still miss! We have to work very hard to score goals. We can't put a simple cross in to the box and get a head on it. I see Houghton historically scores very few as well.

At times, yes. But they shouldn't have to engineer everything themself. Ennis is probably the best at that of the three. But they seem to spend the whole game facing towards our own goal and trying to be a part of the build-up, as all the play is behind them. And it's the same patterns of play over and over, which is either the link-up between Grant/Mayor, the ball into the channel for usually Hardie to chase or the ball into the striker to hold it up and wait for runners. In all of this, they receive the ball with their backs to goal and usually just past the halfway line. The only joy they get from most of this is when Grant eventually sweeps the ball across the box for the strikers to try and get on the end of. It would be nice to see some variety, like how Mayor put through Jephcott into a 1 v 1 situation yesterday. It was different. You saw the movement of Jephcott who anticipated the pass from Mayor. It gave him a real goalscoring opportunity. That's the kind of service he needs. I want to see Ennis & Jephcott being slipped through like that, into those 1 v 1 type situations. We should be getting them on the defenders' shoulder and trying to thread through a pass. Look at Ennis and how pacey and powerful he is when he gets going. I have no idea why he spends the whole game holding the ball up. That's where I think we need a Carey & Lameiras type player, someone who can thread through killer passes, crosses etc. Ennis & Jephcott are goalscorers and will score, but we don't seem to put them into those situations and seem to only hope that a Grant cross will open some doors.

 

[RKB]

Jephcott was way off the pace from February-May last season. He has come back looking leaner and sharper, but not yet worthy of a starting place, in my opinion. Hardie looks sharp and is our leading scorer in pre-season- he needs to start with Ennis at Rotherham. All 3 are capable of getting 10+ this season, but that will only be enough if the midfield and defence contribute at least 30 between them. Edwards, Grant and Camara should be good for half of those, and then we need good contributions from Mayor, G.Cooper and the Centre Backs from set pieces, which we didn't get last season (albeit Cooper may well have done without his injury).
Everyone, including Lowe, knows that going into a season with only 3 strikers is not enough. It concerns me greatly that we are entering a new season with the same front 6 as we dismally ended last season with. Just 2 additions- a target man and a box to box midfielder (Evans and Friio, or Castle and Nugent)- could make a massive difference to our options up top, and give variety to the way we attack.
Yes, the 3 home games against Swansea, Middlesbrough and Bristol City have been encouraging, especially from a defensive point of view, but in an attacking sense it was like watching replays of home games against mid-ranking opposition from last season, where everything goes down the left, we look very slick at times, and very pedestrian at others, and we'll often try and walk it in, do too much and lose possession, or misplace a final ball.
With the attacking players we have already at the club, I want to see us really go at teams, get crosses in and shots off early, threaten at set-pieces, be aggressive and direct.
I'm not sure we are going to see all of that under Lowe, but if we want to compete this season we need at least some of it.

 

[Chip green]

In the last 3 games we have played we have created chances but lacked composure or the goalie has made a top drawer save at the crucial moment- i would be more worried if we hadn't created anything

We have played 3 teams in the league above us & not embarrassed ourselves & lost by 1 goal in each match- yet for some people it is not good enough

Reading other peoples thoughts about we need another striker we need this that & another- we have 2 weeks before the season starts - all the pre season training is gearing up to 7th August when RL will pick the team he feels is capable of beating Rotherham

Yes the transfer window closes on 31st August no doubt we have missed out on targets but RL just wont go a sign someone for the sake of it

Some people have no patience & seem to think throwing money at it will give us a 20 plus goal season striker - luckily for us we have a chairman who does not believe in throwing good money after bad

The 3 strikers we have are more than good enough it is just some people choose to bash them because of what happened from January to May

This season is a clean slate

It’s not a clean slate really is it ? 8 of these players were in the humiliation to Charlton. There’s a few changes at the back but going forward we are the same team with the same tactics and absence of counter attack and dead ball threat. Some obvious gaps at the back filled but no sign of anything different in these areas- yet ! Here’s hoping 🤞

 

[Chip green]

At times, yes. But they shouldn't have to engineer everything themself. Ennis is probably the best at that of the three. But they seem to spend the whole game facing towards our own goal and trying to be a part of the build-up, as all the play is behind them. And it's the same patterns of play over and over, which is either the link-up between Grant/Mayor, the ball into the channel for usually Hardie to chase or the ball into the striker to hold it up and wait for runners. In all of this, they receive the ball with their backs to goal and usually just past the halfway line. The only joy they get from most of this is when Grant eventually sweeps the ball across the box for the strikers to try and get on the end of. It would be nice to see some variety, like how Mayor put through Jephcott into a 1 v 1 situation yesterday. It was different. You saw the movement of Jephcott who anticipated the pass from Mayor. It gave him a real goalscoring opportunity. That's the kind of service he needs. I want to see Ennis & Jephcott being slipped through like that, into those 1 v 1 type situations. We should be getting them on the defenders' shoulder and trying to thread through a pass. Look at Ennis and how pacey and powerful he is when he gets going. I have no idea why he spends the whole game holding the ball up. That's where I think we need a Carey & Lameiras type player, someone who can thread through killer passes, crosses etc. Ennis & Jephcott are goalscorers and will score, but we don't seem to put them into those situations and seem to only hope that a Grant cross will open some doors.

45 goals in 44 games last season if you take away the 4 at home to Swindon & the 4 at home to Lincoln. With no changes in personel in attacking areas, you can see us running into trouble. If Conor Grant gets injured, I've no idea who is going to create a goal or two. Edwards tends to score rather than assist. Seems to me the issue is around creating those opportunities, as I don't think we are creating enough clear cut chances for the strikers. We saw something rare today, Mayor broke through the centre on one occasion and by chance he managed to find himself in dangerous territory and played a brilliant ball through to Jephcott, who probably should have scored. It's these kinds of opportunities that we need to create more of. If you give Jephcott three of those chances a game, he will score. The thing is, we don't. We need something off the cuff rather than the predictable patterns of play between Mayor, Grant & the overlapping third centre back, or the standard balls into the channel for Hardie to chase. The strikers are usually with their backs to goal and not enough time spent facing the opposition goal.

Unfortunately, we don't have that type of player in our ranks. We don't have that mercurial talent or player who can run at defenders, turn, and ping a shot into the top corner. I think back to when we had Carey and Lameiras playing together. They would turn the game in the final third. A jinking dribble, a pass, a worldy of a strike, a cross. They didn't even need to have time on the ball, they could receive it and in one motion, they could twist and shoot or cross. They'd strike a ball into the top corner from 25 yards, no trouble. Those two had so much in their locker. Who in our team other than Grant can ping one into the top corner from 25 yards? Given Grant plays at LWB, we've no midfielder who can even do this. We've no midfielder who runs into the box and heads into the net either. It's all tippy tappy.

I thought Mayor played quite well today, and whilst he's a valuable team member, he's not the man to unlock opposing defences. I'm not sure if it's mental or if he's lost something, or if he never had it, but it's not there and it's not coming back at L1 level. We need another attacking option to unlock our play, although I've no idea where that kind of player would fit into our system, other than to replace Mayor, which Lowe is never going to do. This will be Lowe's conundrum. Isolate the threat of the wing-backs, and there's no supply for the strikers or variety in our attacking play. Could run into trouble.

Agree with “We saw something rare today, Mayor broke through the centre on one occasion and by chance he managed to find himself in dangerous territory and played a brilliant ball through to Jephcott,”

mayor is a great talent, superb touch and balls sticks to him. However he has either been woefully undercoached, doesn’t listen or is being misused. He should be killing this league, but plays too deep and does not affect games the way he should. When he plays his risky passes, it then leaves us exposed as he’s doing it 30 yards from our goal rather then the oppositions‘. If lowe can crack that ( and there’s absolutely no sign of that in last 2 seasons) it would be like adding 2 new players.

 

[LeonTheGreen]

I do feel we need an experienced striker to come in. I’m sure there’ll be someone in the championship knocking about who’s likely to not get regular games. I remember last season we tried to sign Glenn Murray on loan at the end of January, but he didn’t fancy it.

We’d love a 20 goal a season striker but unfortunately they cost a lot of money, which we just don’t have.

 

[Balham Green]

I love watching Mayor and think he’s a very gifted player. But unless the management acts and gets him to change what he is producing this season,
I think he’s at risk again - bizarrely for someone with his skills - of being something of a liability, rather than the outstanding asset he ought to be, given the amount of possession that is channelled to our left side.
He needs to shoot on sight, and put crosses in with his left foot at all opportunities. Then we’d have far more goalscoring chances than we are currently creating.

Agreed. He never seems to learn which is I guess why he is playing at our level. He does often shoot but 9 times out of 10 hammers it at the first defender standing in front of him!

 

[Little Joey]

We have played a very good shape and have looked solid at the back. We need to re-cycle the ball quicker and hit teams on the break. Grant at wing back is just not working. Every ball he plays is either sideways or backwards. He does not look to run in behind the opposition. Last night he was yards behind the ball and Mayor was having to stop and wait for him to catch up. He does not have the engine to play at wing back. I would much rather play young Ryan Law there now he has good support behind him. I like his energy and the way he cuts inside and shoots. There is a player in the making there. We have some very talented players this term and its just a matter of playing the right combinations. I would play both Randell and Houghton in midfield, they could easily alternate and cover each other. The squad needs another RWB and a tall bruiser up front as both Hardie and Jeffers are too easily outmuscled. Generally looking good but we need more composure on the final ball and improve our finishing. Good luck to the lads this year now we have the Green Army back to spur them on.

 

[GreenThing]

Agreed. He never seems to learn which is I guess why he is playing at our level. He does often shoot but 9 times out of 10 hammers it at the first defender standing in front of him!

Sometimes that’s down to good defending, but more often it’s Mayor taking too long to shoot. He needs to shoot earlier, before the defence is set and closed off any gaps to shoot through. Maybe his decision making is too slow?

 

[JannerinCardiff]

45 goals in 44 games last season if you take away the 4 at home to Swindon & the 4 at home to Lincoln. With no changes in personel in attacking areas, you can see us running into trouble. If Conor Grant gets injured, I've no idea who is going to create a goal or two. Edwards tends to score rather than assist. Seems to me the issue is around creating those opportunities, as I don't think we are creating enough clear cut chances for the strikers. We saw something rare today, Mayor broke through the centre on one occasion and by chance he managed to find himself in dangerous territory and played a brilliant ball through to Jephcott, who probably should have scored. It's these kinds of opportunities that we need to create more of. If you give Jephcott three of those chances a game, he will score. The thing is, we don't. We need something off the cuff rather than the predictable patterns of play between Mayor, Grant & the overlapping third centre back, or the standard balls into the channel for Hardie to chase. The strikers are usually with their backs to goal and not enough time spent facing the opposition goal.

Unfortunately, we don't have that type of player in our ranks. We don't have that mercurial talent or player who can run at defenders, turn, and ping a shot into the top corner. I think back to when we had Carey and Lameiras playing together. They would turn the game in the final third. A jinking dribble, a pass, a worldy of a strike, a cross. They didn't even need to have time on the ball, they could receive it and in one motion, they could twist and shoot or cross. They'd strike a ball into the top corner from 25 yards, no trouble. Those two had so much in their locker. Who in our team other than Grant can ping one into the top corner from 25 yards? Given Grant plays at LWB, we've no midfielder who can even do this. We've no midfielder who runs into the box and heads into the net either. It's all tippy tappy.

I thought Mayor played quite well today, and whilst he's a valuable team member, he's not the man to unlock opposing defences. I'm not sure if it's mental or if he's lost something, or if he never had it, but it's not there and it's not coming back at L1 level. We need another attacking option to unlock our play, although I've no idea where that kind of player would fit into our system, other than to replace Mayor, which Lowe is never going to do. This will be Lowe's conundrum. Isolate the threat of the wing-backs, and there's no supply for the strikers or variety in our attacking play. Could run into trouble.

Why would you not include the 8 goals against Swindon and Lincoln?

 

[BojanTheGreat]

I always find it interesting to see the opponents fans view on our performance. I read the match thread last night on Bristol city’s pasoti equivalent (www.Otib.co.uk). Two points seem to come up 1) they were very impressed with argyle tv and 2) I read at least three different posts saying they were impressed with our strikers who looked sharp.

My view is we need more options up front at least 2 more. Currently we have the same number of strikers as goalkeepers! I am happy with the three we have though. Ennis is a very exciting player and will no doubt be the first choice of the three. Both Hardie and Jephcott look in better shape physically than last season and I am sure they will both do well. When they get going against teams at our level.
We could do with a forward with a more physical presence but also some more experience. All three of our strikers are Rookies

 

[greenpilled]

45 goals in 44 games last season if you take away the 4 at home to Swindon & the 4 at home to Lincoln. With no changes in personel in attacking areas, you can see us running into trouble. If Conor Grant gets injured, I've no idea who is going to create a goal or two. Edwards tends to score rather than assist. Seems to me the issue is around creating those opportunities, as I don't think we are creating enough clear cut chances for the strikers. We saw something rare today, Mayor broke through the centre on one occasion and by chance he managed to find himself in dangerous territory and played a brilliant ball through to Jephcott, who probably should have scored. It's these kinds of opportunities that we need to create more of. If you give Jephcott three of those chances a game, he will score. The thing is, we don't. We need something off the cuff rather than the predictable patterns of play between Mayor, Grant & the overlapping third centre back, or the standard balls into the channel for Hardie to chase. The strikers are usually with their backs to goal and not enough time spent facing the opposition goal.

Unfortunately, we don't have that type of player in our ranks. We don't have that mercurial talent or player who can run at defenders, turn, and ping a shot into the top corner. I think back to when we had Carey and Lameiras playing together. They would turn the game in the final third. A jinking dribble, a pass, a worldy of a strike, a cross. They didn't even need to have time on the ball, they could receive it and in one motion, they could twist and shoot or cross. They'd strike a ball into the top corner from 25 yards, no trouble. Those two had so much in their locker. Who in our team other than Grant can ping one into the top corner from 25 yards? Given Grant plays at LWB, we've no midfielder who can even do this. We've no midfielder who runs into the box and heads into the net either. It's all tippy tappy.

I thought Mayor played quite well today, and whilst he's a valuable team member, he's not the man to unlock opposing defences. I'm not sure if it's mental or if he's lost something, or if he never had it, but it's not there and it's not coming back at L1 level. We need another attacking option to unlock our play, although I've no idea where that kind of player would fit into our system, other than to replace Mayor, which Lowe is never going to do. This will be Lowe's conundrum. Isolate the threat of the wing-backs, and there's no supply for the strikers or variety in our attacking play. Could run into trouble.

The comparison between Mayor and Carey/Lameiras is interesting. I think the biggest difference between them is less their respective abilities to beat a man or play a killer pass than the fact that Mayor gets the ball much deeper and has to get 40-50m further up the pitch to do any damage, by which time the opposition have got 11 men behind the ball.

Carey and Lameiras had full backs and a midfield three behind them, so could position themselves more or less on the last man, with space to run into, receiving the ball while defenders were still getting themselves set. It's much easier to be scoring goals and creating chances in those circumstances.

It's the same issue with the strikers. They're all young and have qualities and we'd be as well served trying to improve their effectiveness as replacing them on a budget that doesn't guarantee anyone markedly better. Part of that has to be better and earlier service.

 

[Shoenice]

Why would you not include the 8 goals against Swindon and Lincoln?

It's not to take away from those goals in those games. It's just a fact that if you remove those 2 games, we have scored 45 in 44. We scored 53 in 46 overall, yes, but we also scored 45 in 44. Either way, an average of both are very similar - 1.15 and 1.02, and both round down to 1 goal. I guess using 44 in 45 just emphasises the fact that we are averaging quite literally just 1 goal a game, across a large sample size, or near enough the entire season.

 

[Shoenice]

The comparison between Mayor and Carey/Lameiras is interesting. I think the biggest difference between them is less their respective abilities to beat a man or play a killer pass than the fact that Mayor gets the ball much deeper and has to get 40-50m further up the pitch to do any damage, by which time the opposition have got 11 men behind the ball.

Carey and Lameiras had full backs and a midfield three behind them, so could position themselves more or less on the last man, with space to run into, receiving the ball while defenders were still getting themselves set. It's much easier to be scoring goals and creating chances in those circumstances.

It's the same issue with the strikers. They're all young and have qualities and we'd be as well served trying to improve their effectiveness as replacing them on a budget that doesn't guarantee anyone markedly better. Part of that has to be better and earlier service.

I see your point, although I personally don't think Mayor has that ability in the final third to unlock or decide a game in the way that Carey & Lameiras could. Mayor to me is someone who is more of a star at L2 level, where naturally gifted players like him are less and it's more rough and ready, and more of a physical contest. But I don't think he's a difference maker at L1 level, where he's surrounded by many similar footballing players, in more footballing teams. Yet, he has all the natural ability, he has the touch, the awareness, the skill, the technique. Other than when he's really playing out of his skin (which is rare), I don't see him as someone who will consistently beat defenders at will, and then deliver a pinpoint cross, or ping a shot into the top corner, at this level. Again, making that difference at the top end. Maybe in L2 though, or at least his numbers were better with Bury in L2. But he still has all the skill and natural ability on the ball to be comfortable in a midfield position at L1 level, to be in the middle of the park and passing the ball around with total ease. He's smooth with the ball and he's a nice player to have on the ball in a central position. But I don't see him turning games for us, turning the screw. Even when he's high up the pitch, he struggles to convert when in the right areas. He doesn't seem to know how to use his abilities and damage the opponent. And if he's not going to do it, who is? Maybe that's why Lowe has him deeper? Who knows.