Callum Rose

[MarkMatthews]

Do we think less English players are making the step up to the top level because they have reservations about playing abroad?

I reckon (and I haven’t checked the facts) we must be the highest placed nation in the world without any national player playing abroad. Our players like to stay beat home and I believe this is why our national team has struggled over the years, not the fact we foureign players in the professional decisions

I've always found this curious. Is it the language barrier?

If so, can we blame our education system's lack of focus on languages for our international football failings?

No English is an unofficial world language, it is the one everyone else learns. We would need to learn multiple languages; Spanish, Italian, French, German, Dutch etc

 

[AdelaideGreen]

English is an unofficial "world language", but it is not the only one - Spanish is spoken almost throughout Mexico, Central and South America (and increasingly in the US). More people speak Spanish as a first language than English. French (bless them) is some way behind but also widely spoken - not only in France, but also other European countries such as Belgium, and also in Quebec, and across a wide range of countries in Africa. It's rather arrogant to think that they have to learn our language - sort of English tourist in Calais type approach (if you speak slowly and loudly they will understand).

 

[Willis88]

Do we think less English players are making the step up to the top level because they have reservations about playing abroad?

I reckon (and I haven’t checked the facts) we must be the highest placed nation in the world without any national player playing abroad. Our players like to stay beat home and I believe this is why our national team has struggled over the years, not the fact we foureign players in the professional decisions

I've always found this curious. Is it the language barrier?

If so, can we blame our education system's lack of focus on languages for our international football failings?

No English is an unofficial world language, it is the one everyone else learns. We would need to learn multiple languages; Spanish, Italian, French, German, Dutch etc

Whilst I agree with English being "universal", local teams won't communicate in English they'll communicate in their language. A German team will speak to each other in German.

As other countries teach their kids English as a compulsory 2nd language it may explain why more come in than our boys going out.

But then there might be a bigger picture of their perceptions of English players and academies.

 

[Quintrell Green]

Forget antipathy toward speaking another nation's language, I reckon it is all to do with money. Those players below the skill set of Beckham, 0wen and the Welsh guy playing for Real Madrid, can earn far more per week from their club in the Premiership/ Championship than they would/could in an alternative top European League. Perhaps we should blame SKY for the reason of being footballing insular.

 

[memory man]

How times have changed!!!
Steve Davey was telling us at Senior Greens today that he joined as an apprentice with Johnny Hore, Norman Piper and Richard Reynolds. They all got their opportunities at Home Park and made successful careers.

Times have changed indeed. In those days getting players in from other parts of the UK was a bigreat event. The top teams have hardly any English players let alone local ones and even in the conference teams are fielding overseas players. The money has resulted in an up skilling of football throughout the pyramid and it shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that local footballers can't make the grade.

Plenty of Argyle Youth players have gone on to be successful i.e.

Paul Wotton
Gary Sawyer
Luke McCormick
Jock Morrison
Kevin Hodges
Leigh Cooper
Michael Evans
Martin Barlow


The list goes on .....

There is no doubt that in Argyle terms you list a number of successful graduates from our youth system - mainly for Argyle. The two who made it to the PL and Championship (Evans and Morrison) were not released by Argyle but sold. Paul Wotton was released and did make 18 Championship appearances before Saints were relegated. Although absolutely brilliant for Argyle, when all the others left they did not play above the third tier. So in terms of this thread, all in all the ones who were released did not prove to be a mistake.

 

[TonyD]

How times have changed!!!
Steve Davey was telling us at Senior Greens today that he joined as an apprentice with Johnny Hore, Norman Piper and Richard Reynolds. They all got their opportunities at Home Park and made successful careers.

Times have changed indeed. In those days getting players in from other parts of the UK was a bigreat event. The top teams have hardly any English players let alone local ones and even in the conference teams are fielding overseas players. The money has resulted in an up skilling of football throughout the pyramid and it shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that local footballers can't make the grade.

Plenty of Argyle Youth players have gone on to be successful i.e.

Paul Wotton
Gary Sawyer
Luke McCormick
Jock Morrison
Kevin Hodges
Leigh Cooper
Michael Evans
Martin Barlow


The list goes on .....

There is no doubt that in Argyle terms you list a number of successful graduates from our youth system - mainly for Argyle. The two who made it to the PL and Championship (Evans and Morrison) were not released by Argyle but sold. Paul Wotton was released and did make 18 Championship appearances before Saints were relegated. Although absolutely brilliant for Argyle, when all the others left they did not play above the third tier. So in terms of this thread, all in all the ones who were released did not prove to be a mistake.

Just a shame mark won't admit he is wrong in "his opinion"

 

[MarkMatthews]

Damien McCrory, Ryan Leonard, Issac Vassell and who knows if these trials at Bolton for Callum and A.Nother go well we could get five names who have gone on to play at a higher level than they didn’t at Argyle.

It is a massive setback getting released, it is a slog back, some such as Aaron Bentley and Jake Miller jack it in to concentrate on “proper careers” others like Tyler Harvey, keep chasing it. There are a whole host of reasons why people don’t bounce back, ability is one of them but just because someone doesn’t make it after Argyle is not to say they couldn’t have made it given the chance whilst at Argyle.

 

[Ollieargyle9]

I believe the influx of foreign players has ruined everything including the national squad! Young lads are just not given the chance to progress due to the added competition.

I would love the Sky/TV bubble to burst and for the obscene money to dry up. I would rather football go back to the grass roots. We would then maybe see more youngsters given the chance at every level.

Good luck to Callum, I hope he makes it somewhere.

I would say the opposite, the influx of foreign players has vastly improved our game not ruined it. In a globalised world you get the best available product regardless of where it was born or developed. The English game imports some of the best talent from across the world making the end product far richer for ideas than it used to be. Foreign players with skills and techniques developed abroad, foreign managers who have developed tactics and philosophies from a multitude of footballing cultures. England has become a home for many of these approaches and our product as a spectator sport is considered one of the best in the world for it.

The issue really is the seemingly British refusal to set up shop elsewhere. Many foreign players are willing to travel here, there and everywhere just for an opportunity to prove themselves. That same drive isn't found on our shores, I think the expectation of English players that they have a right to play in this country holds them back. You look at the best footballing nations in the world and a large proportion of their players play abroad, many of which over here learning their trade in one of the most diverse football leagues in the world. It's this willingness to move that makes these players the stars they are. They didn't become superstars overnight, they found clubs abroad that would give them a chance to prove themselves, they found clubs who needed the skills they had that their own country didn't need, they met the demands of clubs so they could benefit from skills shortages elsewhere.

Until English players start taking risks to move abroad they will have to settle for not being footballers because unless you are an exceptional talent you simply cannot expect to compete. There is a world full of footballers out there, clubs have extended their horizons to meet it. English players need to do the same, they need to realise there is a world full of clubs out there; some don't pay as much as English clubs, some don't offer the same prestige in playing in the Premier League, some don't have the same TV spotlight as England but what all of them offer is an opportunity and sometimes that's all you need...

 

[TynanWozGr8]

Premier league may be better but certainly not England side over last ten years

There have been so few opportunities for young English players and the only way they were going to get played was when we started to produce better players because they were training in squads with better foreign players

I think that is now starting to happen and lots of top premiershipship sides have good young Englishmen who have come through the England youth teams - Man U man C arsenal Everton spurs are all bringing them thro - even Chelsea in the cup last Friday

 

[Doyley43]

I believe the influx of foreign players has ruined everything including the national squad! Young lads are just not given the chance to progress due to the added competition.

I would love the Sky/TV bubble to burst and for the obscene money to dry up. I would rather football go back to the grass roots. We would then maybe see more youngsters given the chance at every level.

Good luck to Callum, I hope he makes it somewhere.

I would say the opposite, the influx of foreign players has vastly improved our game not ruined it. In a globalised world you get the best available product regardless of where it was born or developed. The English game imports some of the best talent from across the world making the end product far richer for ideas than it used to be. Foreign players with skills and techniques developed abroad, foreign managers who have developed tactics and philosophies from a multitude of footballing cultures. England has become a home for many of these approaches and our product as a spectator sport is considered one of the best in the world for it.

The issue really is the seemingly British refusal to set up shop elsewhere. Many foreign players are willing to travel here, there and everywhere just for an opportunity to prove themselves. That same drive isn't found on our shores, I think the expectation of English players that they have a right to play in this country holds them back. You look at the best footballing nations in the world and a large proportion of their players play abroad, many of which over here learning their trade in one of the most diverse football leagues in the world. It's this willingness to move that makes these players the stars they are. They didn't become superstars overnight, they found clubs abroad that would give them a chance to prove themselves, they found clubs who needed the skills they had that their own country didn't need, they met the demands of clubs so they could benefit from skills shortages elsewhere.

Until English players start taking risks to move abroad they will have to settle for not being footballers because unless you are an exceptional talent you simply cannot expect to compete. There is a world full of footballers out there, clubs have extended their horizons to meet it. English players need to do the same, they need to realise there is a world full of clubs out there; some don't pay as much as English clubs, some don't offer the same prestige in playing in the Premier League, some don't have the same TV spotlight as England but what all of them offer is an opportunity and sometimes that's all you need...

Don't agree with any of that, however I respect your opinion!

I'd rather watch Argyle rather than any Prem League match and like I said I hope the bubble burst soon! The money in the top tier ruins it for me, especially when you see someone on £300k a week rolling around acting injured when they are not. I'd rather watch rugby than the Prem league.

 

[Gary Wills]

Sonny Bradley did a pretty good job, even on a mere one percent of that.
Yes, guess that does prove your point.

 

[Quintrell Green]

How times have changed!!!
Steve Davey was telling us at Senior Greens today that he joined as an apprentice with Johnny Hore, Norman Piper and Richard Reynolds. They all got their opportunities at Home Park and made successful careers.

Times have changed indeed. In those days getting players in from other parts of the UK was a bigreat event. The top teams have hardly any English players let alone local ones and even in the conference teams are fielding overseas players. The money has resulted in an up skilling of football throughout the pyramid and it shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that local footballers can't make the grade.

Plenty of Argyle Youth players have gone on to be successful i.e.

Paul Wotton
Gary Sawyer
Luke McCormick
Jock Morrison
Kevin Hodges
Leigh Cooper
Michael Evans
Martin Barlow


The list goes on .....

There is no doubt that in Argyle terms you list a number of successful graduates from our youth system - mainly for Argyle. The two who made it to the PL and Championship (Evans and Morrison) were not released by Argyle but sold. Paul Wotton was released and did make 18 Championship appearances before Saints were relegated. Although absolutely brilliant for Argyle, when all the others left they did not play above the third tier. So in terms of this thread, all in all the ones who were released did not prove to be a mistake.

You can include Colin Sullivan playing for Norwich in the top Division.

 

[MarkMatthews]

I believe the influx of foreign players has ruined everything including the national squad! Young lads are just not given the chance to progress due to the added competition.

I would love the Sky/TV bubble to burst and for the obscene money to dry up. I would rather football go back to the grass roots. We would then maybe see more youngsters given the chance at every level.

Good luck to Callum, I hope he makes it somewhere.

I would say the opposite, the influx of foreign players has vastly improved our game not ruined it. In a globalised world you get the best available product regardless of where it was born or developed. The English game imports some of the best talent from across the world making the end product far richer for ideas than it used to be. Foreign players with skills and techniques developed abroad, foreign managers who have developed tactics and philosophies from a multitude of footballing cultures. England has become a home for many of these approaches and our product as a spectator sport is considered one of the best in the world for it.

The issue really is the seemingly British refusal to set up shop elsewhere. Many foreign players are willing to travel here, there and everywhere just for an opportunity to prove themselves. That same drive isn't found on our shores, I think the expectation of English players that they have a right to play in this country holds them back. You look at the best footballing nations in the world and a large proportion of their players play abroad, many of which over here learning their trade in one of the most diverse football leagues in the world. It's this willingness to move that makes these players the stars they are. They didn't become superstars overnight, they found clubs abroad that would give them a chance to prove themselves, they found clubs who needed the skills they had that their own country didn't need, they met the demands of clubs so they could benefit from skills shortages elsewhere.

Until English players start taking risks to move abroad they will have to settle for not being footballers because unless you are an exceptional talent you simply cannot expect to compete. There is a world full of footballers out there, clubs have extended their horizons to meet it. English players need to do the same, they need to realise there is a world full of clubs out there; some don't pay as much as English clubs, some don't offer the same prestige in playing in the Premier League, some don't have the same TV spotlight as England but what all of them offer is an opportunity and sometimes that's all you need...

The swamping of the top club with foreigners is definitely a modern disease. It is clear to me we need to introduce a cap on foreign born players to 2-3 per squad. I seem to remember when it was last raised it was said it would be against EU Law, so hopefully it will be something that comes back on the table in the next couple of years. That said I can’t see the PFA going along with it as even though it is in the interest of their British members, the foreign players are also their members. It would face resistance from some of the big clubs too, although perhaps it’s something the football league could look into.

 

[Green90]

I believe the influx of foreign players has ruined everything including the national squad! Young lads are just not given the chance to progress due to the added competition.

I would love the Sky/TV bubble to burst and for the obscene money to dry up. I would rather football go back to the grass roots. We would then maybe see more youngsters given the chance at every level.

Good luck to Callum, I hope he makes it somewhere.

I would say the opposite, the influx of foreign players has vastly improved our game not ruined it. In a globalised world you get the best available product regardless of where it was born or developed. The English game imports some of the best talent from across the world making the end product far richer for ideas than it used to be. Foreign players with skills and techniques developed abroad, foreign managers who have developed tactics and philosophies from a multitude of footballing cultures. England has become a home for many of these approaches and our product as a spectator sport is considered one of the best in the world for it.

The issue really is the seemingly British refusal to set up shop elsewhere. Many foreign players are willing to travel here, there and everywhere just for an opportunity to prove themselves. That same drive isn't found on our shores, I think the expectation of English players that they have a right to play in this country holds them back. You look at the best footballing nations in the world and a large proportion of their players play abroad, many of which over here learning their trade in one of the most diverse football leagues in the world. It's this willingness to move that makes these players the stars they are. They didn't become superstars overnight, they found clubs abroad that would give them a chance to prove themselves, they found clubs who needed the skills they had that their own country didn't need, they met the demands of clubs so they could benefit from skills shortages elsewhere.

Until English players start taking risks to move abroad they will have to settle for not being footballers because unless you are an exceptional talent you simply cannot expect to compete. There is a world full of footballers out there, clubs have extended their horizons to meet it. English players need to do the same, they need to realise there is a world full of clubs out there; some don't pay as much as English clubs, some don't offer the same prestige in playing in the Premier League, some don't have the same TV spotlight as England but what all of them offer is an opportunity and sometimes that's all you need...

The swamping of the top club with foreigners is definitely a modern disease. It is clear to me we need to introduce a cap on foreign born players to 2-3 per squad. I seem to remember when it was last raised it was said it would be against EU Law, so hopefully it will be something that comes back on the table in the next couple of years. That said I can’t see the PFA going along with it as even though it is in the interest of their British members, the foreign players are also their members. It would face resistance from some of the big clubs too, although perhaps it’s something the football league could look into.

Because English players aren't as good, Mark.

A salary cap would be the best way to expedite youth players' development, which I understand your agenda. That way, each club must nurture what they have developed themselves in order to gain competitive advantage.

Salary limitations means that additional money that can't be spent on wages/transfers can be spent on youth development, facilities, coaching and analysis.

 

[davie nine]

Does anyone know if Callum Rose played for Dorchester today? Seems a more relevant question in view of the subject of this thread.