Burnley 0 - 1 Argyle. FA Youth Cup.

[HC Green]

Great to see this run is generating such a high level of interest in the talent we have and that people are watching oand forming their own opinions on players rather than just blindly adopting the opinion of the manager.

If the lads played their home matches at home (rather than Newton Abbott) there'd be a lot more interest, and opinion, from the Green Army.

Agreed, KIG.

Not sure I agree with that, the U18s have played most of their recent Youth Alliance games at Harper’s Park the most recent against Exeter, with free admission, just before Christmas and parents outnumbered general spectators.

I do think Mark does the current management a disservice as I have never known such involvement in the youth set up by the first team coaches.

Derek Adams in particular can be seen at most games that don’t clash with first team duties.

You may remember that on December 6th when the SWPL team played Willand away, he along with Brewster and Wotton attended. After the game which we lost Adams made it public that he thought the performance wasn’t good enough. Some people criticised him for doing that, however what was the result, a week later basically the same team beat Man City.

 

[davie nine]

I know that they have played some games at Harper’s Park but they are not that well publicised.
These lads have certainly earnt our support.

 

[Biggs]

Great to see this run is generating such a high level of interest in the talent we have and that people are watching and forming their own opinions on players rather than just blindly adopting the opinion of the manager.

And that opinion is... what?

That there are clearly talented players in the youth team but League One mens football is a different kettle of fish? Sounds about right.

Though I certainly would like to see Sangster, Law and Craske see more game time as the first team (hopefully) reaches a safe position in the coming weeks.

 

[MarkMatthews]

Great to see this run is generating such a high level of interest in the talent we have and that people are watching and forming their own opinions on players rather than just blindly adopting the opinion of the manager.

And that opinion is... what?

That there are clearly talented players in the youth team but League One mens football is a different kettle of fish? Sounds about right.

Though I certainly would like to see Sangster, Law and Craske see more game time as the first team (hopefully) reaches a safe position in the coming weeks.

Your final paragraph is exactly what I mean about people making their own opinions, if you based who you wanted to see on what you have heard from Adams, you would only be talking about Cameron Sangster and Mike Cooper and had it not not been for the keeper injury crises, probably not even Mike Cooper. The fact names such as Law and Craske are being talked about more, people interested in wanting to see them progress and be afforded chances, is welcome.

 

[HC Green]

This is what Adams said about the youngsters back in October, before all the current interest.

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/sport/f ... ams-623743

 

[X Isle]

A lot is made of DA's alleged reluctance to blood youth. While it may be fair or unfair comment it is fair to point out that he hasn't exactly had many 'dead rubber' games in his time here in which to do so.

If we find ourselves in comfy mid table with a few games to go (safe from relegation and short of the play-offs) then I would like to think some of the young lads will find themselves on first team team sheets.

 

[memory man]

forming their own opinions on players rather than just blindly adopting the opinion of the manager.

aren’t doing their stock any harm if they need to move on from Home Park.

Couldn't resist some digs hey?

Let's hope some make it. Most won't and that'll be because they weren't good enough or consistent enough when they needed to be. Nothing more nothing less.

I watched Phil Foden play recently and despite being probably England's best player in his age group it was quite clear that right now he struggles with the physicality of the game.

We can't keep players for the sake of it, it's a luxury we cannot afford. At this level and in our position they need to develop faster and be first team ready early on. That includes being physically and mentally strong enough.

I can't comment on the terms our youngsters are offered but a few years back I was talking to somebody at Rotherham and they said they'd offered terms to some promising youngsters but they were turned down because they were not offering enough and they could earn more in a warehouse for example. Greed.

Coping with the physicality of first team football at a young age is very important. I recall seeing Richard Reynolds at nearly 17 years of age make is debut for Argyle in a League Cup match. Richard was a big strapping lad and coped well. I believe he went on to make over 100 fist team games for the Club. From what I can see of the present Youth team the front strikers are no where near where Richards Reynold's physique at the same age.

Whilst we are talking about the Youth Team's success, I thought it a pity that the WMNs could not carry any report on the game last night, despite the later hour of its' printing.

FA Cup QG in a 4-2 win over Derby. Argyle wore blue and Derby red as both teams had to change. But you are right, he was a big lad for his age. 132 starts for us and a handful more than that with Pompey.Last I heard he had just retired from his fish and chip business in Portsmouth.

 

[PlymOdi]

forming their own opinions on players rather than just blindly adopting the opinion of the manager.

aren’t doing their stock any harm if they need to move on from Home Park.

Couldn't resist some digs hey?

Pot.Kettle.

 

[MarkMatthews]

forming their own opinions on players rather than just blindly adopting the opinion of the manager.

aren’t doing their stock any harm if they need to move on from Home Park.

Couldn't resist some digs.

I’ll be the first to admit I take digs at management when I feel it’s necessary, that was not however meant as one in anyway. Nor would I take digs at fellow fans sorry if it came across as digs at them.

The point is many will put forward arguments, for out of favour players they like/don’t think were given chances which aren’t inline with the qualified professionals and we rightly don’t question their qualifications to having a differing view of management, we accept it for what it is, a differing view point on an opinion board. The fact some feel academy players/ graduates shouldn’t be able to be discussed in the same way seems somewhat inconsistent. Just because one professional manager doesn’t rate an individual doesn’t mean all professional managers wouldn’t as I’ve said it’s a game of opinions, that’s why we are on here, that’s what makes the game interesting.

 

[MarkMatthews]

Great to see this run is generating such a high level of interest in the talent we have and that people are watching oand forming their own opinions on players rather than just blindly adopting the opinion of the manager.

If the lads played their home matches at home (rather than Newton Abbott) there'd be a lot more interest, and opinion, from the Green Army.

Agreed, KIG.

Not sure I agree with that, the U18s have played most of their recent Youth Alliance games at Harper’s Park the most recent against Exeter, with free admission, just before Christmas and parents outnumbered general spectators.

I do think Mark does the current management a disservice as I have never known such involvement in the youth set up by the first team coaches.

Derek Adams in particular can be seen at most games that don’t clash with first team duties.

You may remember that on December 6th when the SWPL team played Willand away, he along with Brewster and Wotton attended. After the game which we lost Adams made it public that he thought the performance wasn’t good enough. Some people criticised him for doing that, however what was the result, a week later basically the same team beat Man City.

You think I do management a disservice, however I think management do a great disservice, not to the academy but professionals, who have come from the academy, who they have made up. What happened last season, I still maintain as criminal, what is happening to this year’s professional and development professional lads, who are fast going the same way is both criminal and unforgivable as far as I’m concerned. I hold that beleif stronger tonight than ever before.

It is with the greatest respect to the current apprentices, whom I personally rate very highly but it is delusional to think they will fare any better than their predecessors under the current regime. All it does is buy Adams another season because when the current first year pros and development are all inevitably released, people will be looking to the next year, who in turn will inevitably go the same way, it will be a Groundhog Day kop out at least until the current management leave. I hope I’m proved wrong, I would love to be but just can’t see it at the moment.

 

[Biggs]

Mark, you say things will only get better once the current management leaves. Can you give an example of a big club elsewhere from League 1 to the Premier League constantly blooding many more youngsters than Argyle?

Most clubs seem fairly similar to Argyle in that the vast majority of youngsters don’t make it, and chances are given to the best ones. In our case, Purrington, Harvey, Rooney, Fletcher and Sangster. Regrettably at least two of them weren’t good enough.

It’s also worth pointing out that up until now, Derek Adams has been in high pressure situations where we HAD to be promoted or HAD to avoid relegation. If we comfortably get clear of relegation in the next few weeks then, yes, I’d be disappointed if more youngsters weren’t played. But until that point it’s very clear that needs must.

I still can’t understand how you don’t see that League 1 is almost a different sport to youth team football. Do you actually think that Adams should be sacked because he hasn’t brought through more youngsters? And again... is the answer Stan Ternent?

 

[Voice of Reason]

Spot on Biggs.

Lets for the sake of argument take the 5 most talented lads from the squad currently, how much (financially) would it cost Argyle to give these lads a 2 year contract - by the time you've taken into consideration insurances, accommodation costs and all the employment trimmings £400-£500k comfortably, no whilst thats a meagre figure to clubs higher up the food chain, that is a massive commitment to us currently. Whilst some will see it as a risk worth taking, some wont, especially with history telling us that despite there obvious talent, professional football might be a step too far for some. It happens every year, I played cricket with a lad who played for England under 13 through to under 19, sensational player, but absolutely got found out by genuine quick bowlers, soon as anyone bowled 85mph plus, he looked like he had never played the game before, excellence in youth in no guarantee of success in top level sport.

Often the physical stress is too much, not just the argy bargy, but the day in day out stresses (Rhys Griffiths couldn't adapt to it - some people just cant) I hope/we all hope that in two seasons Cooper, Sangster, Hodges etc are all in the first team with Man Utd sniffing around and wanting to give us a disgusting large sum for their services, but it will be their own ability that forces that to happen not the bloody mindedness of DA. No man who's job depends on our success would snub talent, cheap options if it was going to benefit us.

 

[GreenDave1981]

It is somewhat frustrating though to see the production line of youth being sold from Exeter with a large income from transfer fees. Rumour has it the tribunal with Chelsea for the player that was on Exeter’s books for a very short time is going to be many millions

 

[TynanWozGr8]

Ampadu is an exceptional talent - in Wales men’s squad as a school boy and on Chelsea’s first team bench already - a club notorious for not bringing youngsters through - I would expect several millions unless them up road are stitched up by a premier league biased tribunal

I think Mark is totally wrong and the current management would play the lads if they were good enough. Simple fact is the likes of Tyler Harvey and Ben Purrington and others have gone elsewhere and other league managers have not played them. Ben has played six times this season and Tyler has ended up at Truro

I did think Sheridan should have played Ben more and given him an opportunity when the left back was injured, but he’s hardly setting the world alight at Rotherham.

Simple fact is if they are good enough the manager would play them - and none made the grade stepping up to the 4th division and it will be even harder to make the grade now we are a league higher.

 

[jerryatricjanner]

Agree, it is a massive gap from U18 football to playing regularly in professional football. In 99% of cases if they are good enough they will give the manager no option other than to pick them. Most of those lauded as the real deal by some and then cast aside since time immemorial have found their level several leagues lower or given up on the game. Isaac Vassel has shown there is a way back if you are good and determined enough but is very much the exception to the rule. Rooney is struggling to get in the Linfield side after a brief bright start to the season and none of the others discarded in recent years are exactly setting the non league scene alight sufficiently to grab the attention of league clubs. Unfortunately it is a tough business and only a tiny percentage across the land of all the dozens of youngsters going through each club's youth set every year make it.