Brief Synopsis

[PL2 3DQ]

I do think under the new 3-4-2-1 formation the wing-backs play far too high thinking that they have two central midfielders behind them who could shuffle across and fill the gap.
It works for home games but not for away games, for the 88th minute winner by Fleetwood Edwards was the furthest player forward and Fleetwood attacked down his side and tackles were missed.

For away games the wing-backs should just sit deep for the early stages of a game or to hold on for a draw or win.

Last season the wing-backs had the security of the two number 8s of Mayor and Camara to work with.

 

[The Doctor]

I do think under the new 3-4-2-1 formation the wing-backs play far too high thinking that they have two central midfielders behind them who could shuffle across and fill the gap.
It works for home games but not for away games, for the 88th minute winner by Fleetwood Edwards was the furthest player forward and Fleetwood attacked down his side and tackles were missed.

For away games the wing-backs should just sit deep for the early stages of a game or to hold on for a draw or win.

Last season the wing-backs had the security of the two number 8s of Mayor and Camara to work with.

Excellent post. Simply STARTING away games with the wingbacks playing more defensively would give us time to get the measure of the game and blunt the opposition’s forward play. Then, if the opportunity arises the wingbacks can push further up the pitch and we can switch into a more free-flowing attacking mode. It’s partly a positional change but also a mindset change - think solid foundation first and THEN try to dismantle the opposite rather than going straight for attacking perfection.

 

[Frank the Phone]

The worry for me was that, even though we were far too gung-ho, Charlton still looked safe and organised against us at the back, whilst having acres, absolutely acres, of space to attack us going forward.

 

[moles40]

Let's hope SS does a full analysis of the game with the players, it's wasn't nowhere near good enough, you can forget the play - offs, if we have too many more performances like that this season.

Still not a bad start to the season, despite last night.

 

[Brechin Hedge]

both sturrock and waiters used a different team away from that at home, with an additional defensive midfielder away.

maybe time for that and accept that not every game is going to be a fast flowing two touch game and just sometimes you have to dig in, be defensive and accept an ugly point away from home is invariably a good point.

 

[Garland Greene]

Seems that the opposition style dictates our success. If their style of play suits us then we play well and get a win. If it doesn't then we just stick to how we play regardless and they win.

 

[cheshiregreen]

Agree with PL2's post re wing backs.

My observations after last night.

1) Lot of poor or loose passing causing us to be under pressure - Gillesphy, Randell, Scarr, Cooper and Butcher (2nd half).

2) The defence. Criticism of our number 3 understandable, but, he was left exposed by Mumba's desire(?) to be high up the pitch - see PL2's post. Scarr was pulled out of position by Stockley which created even more pressure on our goal. Wilson - maybe his last season at this level? Will he regain his place after suspension? Cooper - just thump it away when you have a difficult back pass to deal with.

3) Midfield - distribution was, at best, disappointing, but generally failed to stop Charlton playing through there too. Azaz - great as attacking option, does he have the defensive side too or will he prove less effective in away games? Schumacher when asked about Mayor last night said he was "sound" so assume he was rested and not carrying an injury.

4) Attack - showed some promising signs before the red card. As I have commented before I am not convinced Hardie is ideally suited as the only out and out striker in this formation. We need a Mickey Evans type to hold up the ball and link to players joining from midfield.

5) Coaching/management - our manager and his assistant are still new to their roles. Hopefully they're learning quickly, will be interesting to see the starting eleven on Saturday as currently we look incapable of grinding out results when needed like we did at places like Bolton last season. There will be times we will require this if we aren't going to face a long season.

6) The missing - Camara, Bolton and Grant will bolster the squad as they become available. Assume Grant is closest to returning, beginning to wonder if the Camara situation is a distraction we could do without and needs a resolution one way or another.

 

[Rush Goalie]

What was the scoop with Schuey's response to the question about Mayor in the post-match interview. He gave a pretty terse response. A falling out, or is DM just carrying a knock and the manager doesn't want to give much away about it?

 

[John Cooper]

Who's going to attempt it then?

pants

 

[oldage]

It’s been explained why.

And In’ve given additional reasons🙄

 

[Greendawe]

Three generations of us were at The Valley yesterday evening for the only London fixture this year, but to put it mildly not quite what we were hoping for. A few comments:
- Charlton were a very good side - fast, direct and dangerous. We played quite well in attack until the second goal but even in that period Charlton looked better than us
- Our passing especially at the back was abysmal and from a number of players. Even simple short passes not under pressure were given away to the opposition. And there is no point in possession football if the final pass is to the opposition
- Our defence looked weak throughout, especially on the left. Others have commented on Gillesphey who did not have a good game, but he was offered virtually no support from Mumba who looked good on the attack but was almost totally missing in defence. Whittaker scored a brilliant individual goal but, that apart, generally ran into trouble either losing possession rather than passing, and shooting from difficult positions and every time well over the bar.

Having said all that there is clearly potential in the squad and there were good moments yesterday evening. But something needs to be done urgently to tighten up the defence and not to overdo the possession passes at the back, especially in away games against fast and direct opposition.

And finally, despite the result, there was a great atmosphere around us in the away stand with plenty of good humour and chants throughout the match and despite the score it was still a good evening out!

 

[Harry]

Watched on TV which I admit doesn't give you the best insight. I am not sure that changes of formation or personnel would have saved us last night. Misplaced passes were widespread throughout much of the team. There were a number of very ambitious passes out of the back that got through by a whisker but had me wincing at the time so it could have been worse. You cannot get away with that whoever is playing. All the players tonight are capable of making those passes and of choosing better balls to play but too many got it wrong, too often. While Charlton had more composure than us I did not feel they forced the mistakes generally. It was more down to poor decision making/execution. We did get into the game after the first goal but that seemed to follow a brief period of Charlton becoming just as profligate with their passing so we had a lot of free possession. After the sending off they seemed to relax and find their passing again and we were in big trouble as we carried on in similar form until half time, hence goal 3. I actually thought we showed good spirit in the second half and in the circumstances it was as good as could be expected in the circs. I admit I wasn't giving the game my full attention by then so maybe a bit optimistic. I though Whittaker showed some promise but his performance was disjointed, looked like a player with limited game time coming in and I would give him more time. Next game is big now but at least it is a 5:1 early in the season when things are still bedding down and was largely influenced by the sending off so I hope confidence won't be too badly hit.

Really pleased I had not gone to the game in person. I might find it harder to be so relaxed about the performance.

 

[MGM]

I understand the logic about the two number 8’s.

Saying we‘d be better when DM is one of them l can’t agree.

And this is the problem. DM can’t do the dirty work of a number 8. His impact fades in games in that position. So where do you put him? You simply don’t. You have to play proper midfielders in there.

The only answer, and l doubt people won’t like this is you play a 3-5-1-1. Which allows Mayor or Azaz to play behind the forward. It then allows to proper number 8’s in midfield.

Yet the whole idea of a wing back system is for your wing back to get in advanced forward positions. I’m afraid if you play with two number 8’s then they are even more critical to provide your team width.

The only way to stop being exposed down the sides is get better defenders with pace. Or stop playing 3ATB altogether. It’s not like for the past 2 or 3 years teams haven’t been ripping us apart this way. I go back to Lowe’s first year. Mansfield at home. That 3ATB system had two number 8’s that day. For 45 mins they tore us apart. They missed chance after chance. League one teams won’t do that. Yet 3 years on it doesn’t matter what 3ATB system we play we are going to be exposed defensively.

The problem for me is we are an attacking side who rely on getting clean sheets. And there is the answer. We don’t score enough goals for the exposed formation we play. When we talk about last year we base it on 18 clean sheets. We don’t base it players in a free scoring team.

 

[Railway sleeper]

I do think under the new 3-4-2-1 formation the wing-backs play far too high thinking that they have two central midfielders behind them who could shuffle across and fill the gap.
It works for home games but not for away games, for the 88th minute winner by Fleetwood Edwards was the furthest player forward and Fleetwood attacked down his side and tackles were missed.

For away games the wing-backs should just sit deep for the early stages of a game or to hold on for a draw or win.

Last season the wing-backs had the security of the two number 8s of Mayor and Camara to work with.

I don’t want to be too critical at this early stage- but Fleetwood ( 1-2) and Charlton (1-5) are in NO WAY better sides than Argyle, in my opinion. On the contrary.

I do think that Shuey and his team need to roll up the old blue- print for away games, and bin- it .... and come up with a new and better blue print.

It’s not about playing the ‘beautiful game’ away from home ( save that for home matches).

Think luggy and ‘pointage’ - keep it tight and rock solid at the back - and I think we can do some serious damage on - the-road with our quick strikers ( which will hopefully be re-inforced before 1september), by hitting hard-and-fast on-the-break......

 

[Chip green]

I do think under the new 3-4-2-1 formation the wing-backs play far too high thinking that they have two central midfielders behind them who could shuffle across and fill the gap.
It works for home games but not for away games, for the 88th minute winner by Fleetwood Edwards was the furthest player forward and Fleetwood attacked down his side and tackles were missed.

For away games the wing-backs should just sit deep for the early stages of a game or to hold on for a draw or win.

Last season the wing-backs had the security of the two number 8s of Mayor and Camara to work with.

Spot on