Women's Euros

[up the line]

Chill out mate. Just 3.5 % of American firefighters are women. Not many women work on trawlers or go bricklaying.
It's about football and men are more aggressive with more adrenalin which has a good and a bad side, both in football and life in general.

I didn't realise bricklaying was a profession that required aggression. We live and learn.

Just picking up on that one part of your garbled gibberish, how much do you think decades of encouraging women not to do these types of jobs has affected the number doing those type of jobs and how much is down to their lack of aggression, which is clearly imperative to putting down a good Flemish bond wall?

Now you might want to sit down for this, but over the last decade the number of women working in construction has doubled.

Probably because, thankfully, there are far fewer people spouting barely coherent, quasi-scientific claptrap about women not having enough testosterone to put bricks down in sequence.

Chill out? Sorry can't pal, too much adrenaline, you get that right? Grrrrrrrrrrr

 

[unhinched]

Very boring for a thread on women's football but if you want to believe men and women would be the same if it wasn't for social stereotyping or ' the patriarchy' then we can leave it there and agree to disagree.

 

[up the line]

Very boring for a thread on women's football but if you want to believe men and women would be the same if it wasn't for social stereotyping or ' the patriarchy' then we can leave it there and agree to disagree

It is very boring.
It's very boring of you to start up a load of bullsh1t about women not being able to save children, fight in wars, put out fires, catch fish, put down bricks because they apparently lack the aggression required to punch a wall into shape.

The most boring thing is people with no idea what they're on about, discouraging an entire gender of people from doing jobs they are well equipped to because of some rubbish about adrenaline. Unless you actually believe that reacting more aggressively towards stress makes you a better construction worker, which is of course batsh1t cracked.

Personally I'd rather see my football matches play out 11 v 11 as often as possible. If Lee Tomlin's sending off for Doncaster is a shining example of why that extra adrenaline makes men's football much better then god help us.

 

[unhinched]

Probably because, thankfully, there are far fewer people spouting barely coherent, quasi-scientific claptrap about women not having enough testosterone to put bricks down in sequence.

Testosterone is a sex hormone that plays important roles in the body. In men, it's thought to regulate sex drive (libido), bone mass, fat distribution, muscle mass and strength, and the production of red blood cells and sperm.
Testosterone acts to increase lipolysis via upregulation of the adrenoreceptor (receptor for catecholamines like adrenaline)

Shouldn't have to do this really, but as you accuse me of 'quasi scientific claptrap' see what clues above would suggest a man is more cut out for blocklaying. Have you lifted a block ? All day ?

And so the women's game can never be judged like the man's. Too many differences between the sexes.
But the woman's game is growing on me, but not so much my wife , who's father , incidentally, was a pro player and coach and so she is well schooled in the game.

 

[Mike E]

Let's see how many of those 17 million actually turn up to watch their local women's team. Even the Women's Super League only has an average attendance of around 2,000, which means it has to be heavily subsidised by men's clubs just to exist.

So many sad people are using the Euro win as a stick to beat the men's game with, but the inconvenient truth is that it would be financially impossible for our women to be professional footballers without the men's game paying their wages and providing their facilities. Without professionalism, yesterday more than likely would never have happened.

So how many of the vocal social media types will put their money where their mouths are when the league starts again in September?

The mens game certainly does not pay for the womans game, in most cases it can't even pay for it's own, with overbloated wages and most clubs in massive debt dependent on philanthropic owners.

 

[up the line]

Testosterone is a sex hormone that plays important roles in the body. In men, it's thought to regulate sex drive (libido), bone mass, fat distribution, muscle mass and strength, and the production of red blood cells and sperm.
Testosterone acts to increase lipolysis via upregulation of the adrenoreceptor (receptor for catecholamines like adrenaline)

Shouldn't have to do this really, but as you accuse me of 'quasi scientific claptrap' see what clues above would suggest a man is more cut out for blocklaying. Have you lifted a block ? All day ?

And so the women's game can never be judged like the man's. Too many differences between the sexes.
But the woman's game is growing on me, but not so much my wife , who's father , incidentally, was a pro player and coach and so she is well schooled in the game.

Still has no relevance.
There are women bricklayers...who aren't all giant hulking brutes and, funnily enough, during war time whole crews of women bricklayers kept the construction industry going......on rations! Funny how no-one stepped in then to tell them they didn't have enough muscle mass.
I've done a fair amount of manual labour at my own property and my partner is equally involved in the heavy lifting and the operation of heavy machinery such as kangos, sledgehammers etc.

 

[unhinched]

What's your point ? Men and women are the same ? Women are as strong as men ? Women want to be bricklayers and trawlerwomen but men stop them ?

 

[WoodsyGreen]

The mens game certainly does not pay for the womans game, in most cases it can't even pay for it's own, with overbloated wages and most clubs in massive debt dependent on philanthropic owners.

Yes it does. The WSL was forced to go professional in 2018, even though the money just wasn't there. The Premier League has been keeping it on life support ever since.

Kelly Simmons, the woman in charge of pro women's football in England, said as much last year:

“Obviously, we’ve seen the Barclays deal, we’ve seen the multimillion‑pound TV rights announcement we made a couple of weeks ago, but it’s not yet sustainable. It can’t survive without money made through men’s football."

And debts in the men's game are irrelevant because the market is so huge that they can be managed. Take funding from the men's game out of women's football, however, and the whole thing would collapse like a pack of cards.

The Euro win will give the women's game in this country a massive shot in the arm, but let's see how keen all these new fans are when it's wet, cold and dark in the middle of January.

 

[up the line]

What's your point ? Men and women are the same ? Women are as strong as men ? Women want to be bricklayers and trawlerwomen but men stop them ?

What my point is is that, just as it would be daft to say all men and women were the same (so yeah I'm not playing that game), it is profoundly backwards to suggest that all women are not as strong as men and therefore incapable of doing the same jobs as them.
Clearly some women want to do those jobs as they are doing those jobs as irksome as it might be to those who think that science means they can't do them.
As I said, fortunately more men don't want to prevent women doing these jobs (numbers of women in construction doubling in ten years).

 

[unhinched]

Yes - power tools are great for the ladies - more of an equaliser.
I think many men would love not to have to do some of the jobs dominated by men and certainly wouldn't be discouraging women from doing them.
Many men might feel a bit guilty shoving women into some of those places though.
As previously said I'm all for equality of the sexes. I hope we can get suicide rates, addiction rates, incarceration rates, homeless rates, length of life etc among men at comparable levels to women in the years ahead.

 

[ChepstowGreen]

I assume Up The Line isn't trying to make out that women's football will one day have the pace and power of the men's game, because that would obviously be a nonsensical suggestion.

However as someone else said, if the sports are judged on their own merits rather than compared to one another, then women's football has every chance of continuing to grow and one day thrive.

Nobody tries to make out Serena Williams would beat Roger Federer, or Sally Gunnell would beat Roger Black, but that doesn't make the Williams and Gunnells any less special.

My hope is crowds continue to grow. We went to the women's FA Cup final this year which was a good day out, but with cheap tickets it still was a crowd of around 45k-50k or something. Everyone seemed to be happy with this attendance on tv etc, but imo this needs to be a sell out, year in year out, etc etc. Hopefully it'll get there one day and Sundays brilliant success will hopefully act as a catalyst to get there.

 

[unhinched]

To be honest Chepstow Green, I have no idea what Up the Line and those who like his posts are uptight about.
I actually said my respect for the womens game is growing and in some ways its a breath of fresh air BUT, in these insane PC times, I dared to say that men will always be more aggressive than women due to hormones and biology and so there will always likely be more pushing and shoving with the men and that the each sex's differences have their strengths and weaknesses which we are glad of in different contexts.
Then out of nothing, a big row about nothing really.
Hate crime maybe ?

 

[up the line]

Obviously I think there will always be differences between men's and women's sports. It's up to the individual which they prefer or whether they actually don't have a preference and just see people playing at the top of their sport and enjoying it.
As for a lack of aggression, I'm not really sure how true having seen some of the German challenges in the first half of the final.

My involvement in this thread only started when the (totally unrelated to football) utter tripe started up about women categorically being worse at certain jobs because of 'biology'.
Actually no it started even earlier when I saw some total h0rsesh1t about women not jumping in the sea to save children or fighting in Ukraine the insinuation being that those kind of things were solely masculine things to do ..utter garbage of course and the kind of nonsense that deserves to get called out when it's just flobbed up as if it's truth

 

[unhinched]

Obviously I think there will always be differences between men's and women's sports. It's up to the individual which they prefer.

My involvement in this thread only started when the utter tripe started up about women categorically being worse at certain jobs because of 'biology'.
Actually no it started even earlier when I saw some total h0rsesh1t about women not jumping in the sea to save children or fighting in Ukraine the insinuation being that those kind of things were solely masculine things to do ..utter garbage of course and the kind of nonsense that deserves to get called out when it's just flobbed up as if it's truth

Come on man. You know very well that " generally " , not exclusively , always exceptions etc, men and women are wired up a bit differently ( emotionally and physically) and are often ( not exclusively) suited and attracted to and good at different jobs.
Why so angry about this ? Why the hair splitting.
Most women do not aspire to work on trawlers or fight fires. Most men don't aspire to work in flower shops or as midwives.
But if they do I can't see anyone stopping them, so what is the problem ?

 

[up the line]

Come on man. You know very well that " generally " , not exclusively , always exceptions etc, men and women are wired up a bit differently ( emotionally and physically) and are often ( not exclusively) suited and attracted to and good at different jobs.
Why so angry about this ? Why the hair splitting.
Most women do not aspire to work on trawlers or fight fires. Most men don't aspire to work in flower shops or as midwives.
But if they do I can't see anyone stopping them, so what is the problem ?

I think what makes people angry (sorry in addition to my raging adrenaline, surely you understand that, it's just science, I'm biologically hard wired to be aggressive so why the surprise?) is someone joining a thread about football to make a patently false, weird comment that goes deliberately off topic and implies if a child was drowning in icy water it'd have to be a man that saved them. Or that women didn't stay behind to fight in Ukraine when 15% of the fighters there are women.
Just a brazen piece of twaddle.
But then you've fed off that ludicrous statement for hours so I guess more fool me for giving it the dignity and oxygen of a response. It's just when people make such profoundly mindless comments I can't help myself (adrenaline again I guess).

Just for reference here it is in its glory; "Masculinity is ' toxic ' until you need someone to jump in an icy sea to rescue a kid or defend your community from Putin"

Cringe.