Thoughts on Ian Foster | Page 297 | PASOTI
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Thoughts on Ian Foster

Aug 17, 2005
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Not true, you can, but not giving one is 'code' for 'the person you've asked about is not good'.
Yes you can give a bad reference but by doing so, you open yourself up to libel case if he can prove his reasons etc was reasonable. As they now only have to request a SAR from the organisation telling them to delete any information that breaks somebody's gdpr its not hard to get a copy of the reference that's sent
 
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EuroJim

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I reckon he had a vision in his head for years about what he would do when he finally got a club job. He was probably so excited about it that he tried to put it into practice all at once, rather than make one or two tweaks and then apply the bulk of his vision in the summer.

It'll be a major lesson learned, probably at the cost of his managerial career because no-one in English club football will touch him now.
Great analysis. I remember making a similar mistake in my early 30s, supervising a team of BT engineers and managing to pee them off by not recognizing what they had done in the past because I was so keen to move forward. Luckily my manager had a quiet word with me.
 
Jan 9, 2023
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We keep getting told by the club that Ian Foster was selected via a thorough and a meticulous recruitment process. But it’s becoming clear that isn’t true. If there was a thorough and a meticulous recruitment process we wouldn’t have ended up with Ian Foster. Lots of lessons to be learnt.

Andy B. said:

That's an egregious statement Cobi. You're alluding that the Tier One management are inept and don't know what their doing - they've proved over and over that they do.

I'm not sure egregious is the word. In fact there is nothing outrageous about what Cobi has said! Entirely accurate might be a more appropriate description. They clearly got it horribly wrong. For all the good the current regime have done they are not perfect and this isn't the first time they have got something wrong, but they've never got anything THIS wrong. Don't get be wrong, I had total faith up until this point, but this appointment was a total cluster by any standards. In any environment serious questions would be asked and should be asked of those responsible.

It is crystal clear that either Foster is a monster fibber and master conman with a complex network covering his tracks, or the right questions were not asked prior to him being hired. Whatever the reasons the outcome suggests that however thorough or meticulous the process was considered to be at the time, it was clearly fundamentally flawed. We can't simply write it off as bad luck.

For example, serious eyebrows were raised when the shortlist was leaked. Subsequent information seems to indicate it wasn't far from accurate. If it WAS accurate, how the hell did we end up with that shortlist? It seemed totally inappropriate. Consider who wasn't interviewed - some very good candidates were binned off, by all accounts. Who made those decisions? How were those decisions made? Was it simply Dewsnip having a template in his mind about what an Argyle manager looked like (redlines seem to be they have to be either from Liverpool or an england pathway, and not a fan of 4 at the back especially inverted full-backs). If not was it stats led, references led, results led? Joking aside is there a particular system we're looking to play, or that a coach is required to play? If we have all this in place then how the hell was Foster allowed to jump the shark so dramatically within that structure? Someone has really taken their eye of the ball in this regard. What actually is the 'real' Argyle way anyhow?? It seems so nebulous.

Without knowing anything about it, in hindsight this appointment looks a product of muddled thinking in all these regards, plus a hint of panic. The major concern for the summer is whether or not there was there any likelihood of us ever hiring someone not already known to our Director of Football. If the shortlist was a product of this will the lessons be learned and the net cast wider this time?

I guess time will tell. It was SO far from the right appointment I'm completely disillusioned and baffled by the whole thing and have little faith they will get the next one right through any means other than blind chance. Although of course I hope. There is always hope.
 
Oct 31, 2022
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There's a fair distance between embellishing and lying. It's one thing to present the optimal version of yourself at an interview, it's quite another saying things that simply aren't true.

I'd be really surprised if he told them outright falsehoods to get the job.

The important thing is to make every effort to avoid this situation reoccuring. As the famous Argyle fan* Thomas Jefferson once said in 1834, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.


*I don't think this is remotely true

He didn't need to lie about his experience in coaching. So perhaps I haven't used my words well.

My point is he can say he can and will deliver attacking football when actually he cannot or won't.
 
Nov 3, 2006
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Argyle must've gone with him because they wanted someone like him, not necessarily because he answered all the questions correctly or ticked all the boxes. Picking people that talk like you and sound like you is a common issue in the job interviewing process.
 
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MGM

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Argyle must've gone with him because they wanted someone like him, not necessarily because he answered all the questions correctly or ticked all the boxes. Picking people that talk like you and sound like you is a common issue in the job interviewing process.

They wanted someone like him. Sums it up for me. They obviously didn't want some of the character flaws but they wanted someone with his background. For example, he has not managed in english club football before. Obviously this is something that didn't bother Argyle when picking him.

Apart from Danny Rohl, who is currently fighting relegation & in their very first management job? So to me, Argyle took a massive game with Foster's lack of inexperience.

And partly that's my concern now. Most clubs in our relegation fight have experienced firefighters in charge. One or two don 't. Including Argyle.
 
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Jan 9, 2023
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Argyle must've gone with him because they wanted someone like him, not necessarily because he answered all the questions correctly or ticked all the boxes. Picking people that talk like you and sound like you is a common issue in the job interviewing process.
Haha well having worked in sales most of my career, put pretty much any salesperson in an interview they'll talk like you and sound like you. Have we really just been naive here? I really don't think the interview should be quite so important in appointing anyone, still less a football manager. But in this case it shouldn't even have gone to interview if we'd done our due diligence correctly and had a clearer idea of what we wanted.

All the terrible man management stuff aside, a quick google search told me his box formation type tactics wouldn't suit any of our players or offer any continuity in terms of our attacking style of play. All season pre-Foster we've demonstrably not pressed in the opponents half, instead compressing the play with a high line and picking teams off on the counter. So everything else aside simply in this regard why hire a manager who does the complete opposite, setting up in a way we don't have the personnel for? It was not unpredictable, how this all panned out. I posted about it at the time. So... just how???

I've long been a fan of Dewsnip, but the fact we're persisting with 5 at the back even now in spite of the squad having been assembled and coached to play 4-3-3 probably offers some hints.
 
Jan 9, 2023
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He didn't need to lie about his experience in coaching. So perhaps I haven't used my words well.

My point is he can say he can and will deliver attacking football when actually he cannot or won't.
In Foster's defence, the high press probably creates a lot of chances, against, say Burkina Faso under 20's. Less so against a Southampton or a Leeds, who will just play straight through you.
 
Nov 3, 2006
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They wanted someone like him. Sums it up for me. They obviously didn't want some of the character flaws but they wanted someone with his background. For example, he has not managed in english club football before. Obviously this is something that didn't bother Argyle when picking him.

Apart from Danny Rohl, who is currently fighting relegation & in their very first management job? So to me, Argyle took a massive game with Foster's lack of inexperience.

And partly that's my concern now. Most clubs in our relegation fight have experienced firefighters in charge. One or two don 't. Including Argyle.
Yep. We've taken a big gamble by not appointmenting somebody with more experience. Hopefully it doesn't sink us.
 

Cobi Budge

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For example, he has not managed in english club football before. Obviously this is something that didn't bother Argyle when picking him.

That should have bothered Argyle though.

Appointing a manager with next to no experience in club football to take over midway through a season always seemed pretty absurd to me, and yes, I did say that at the time, before anybody accuses me of being a hindsight merchant. Millwall also made the same mistake.

The next manager needs to have recent and relevant experience of working within club football, whether as a manager or as an assistant.
 
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Jan 9, 2023
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They wanted someone like him. Sums it up for me. They obviously didn't want some of the character flaws but they wanted someone with his background. For example, he has not managed in english club football before. Obviously this is something that didn't bother Argyle when picking him.

Apart from Danny Rohl, who is currently fighting relegation & in their very first management job? So to me, Argyle took a massive game with Foster's lack of inexperience.

And partly that's my concern now. Most clubs in our relegation fight have experienced firefighters in charge. One or two don 't. Including Argyle.
Having nervously watched a bit of the Millwall and also the QPR game yesterday I am very glad we don't have those particular firefighters in charge. In fact we should feel blessed we get the chance to play both of them between now and the end of the season.

QPR were roundly battered by Wednesday; the supporters behind the goals they were attacking should have been asked to sign injury waivers. Millwall on the other hand didn't look like so much as having an attempt on goal had the game gone on for a million years. If anything they looked worse than Rotherham. In fact they looked worse than Forest Green.

When Huddersfield got their goal in the 94th minute Neil 'firefighter' Harris immediately brought on 2 subs, as if he'd forgotten about them to that point.

No thanks. I have no clue how either of those teams have picked up any points at all in this league based on yesterday's showing.
 

Mark58

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We don't know what is in the contract maybe it could have been if he was sacked before a certain number of days or games then a larger release package is required and hence the reason why it took so long
Managers don't get paid up in full a former manager who used to coachmyblad told me this he said most contracts he had involved a 6 month pay off but there of course could be other clauses
I don't understand the 3 1/2 year contract for someone so unproven
Now, there is an app I wouldn't mind using, bearing in mind the need to 'increase frequency' as the years advance... ;)
 

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There's a fair distance between embellishing and lying. It's one thing to present the optimal version of yourself at an interview, it's quite another saying things that simply aren't true.

I'd be really surprised if he told them outright falsehoods to get the job.

The important thing is to make every effort to avoid this situation reoccuring. As the famous Argyle fan* Thomas Jefferson once said in 1834, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.


*I don't think this is remotely true
John Philpot Curran, an Irish politician, coined this, Jefferson never even quoted it 😊☘️💚
 

Cobi Budge

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I don't think anything we have seen alleged is from the England coaching manual.

Notwithstanding the many stylistic gripes people have, Southgate has clearly got some man management skills.

The cautious risk-averse football was straight out of the England Coaching Manual. Southgate does all he can to negate and limit our most creative players. Foster did the same.