Set pieces

[Jon with no H]

SS didnt sign players for set-pieces. He scored enough goals from open play not to depend on them. It is only now that those goals have dried up that we are looking for a set piece to save us. But I also agree with others - there is no point in employing a set piece coach until we have 1 or more players than can consistently deliver decent balls into the areas we want. At the moment our delivery is abysmal, shown by the fact that no one seems to take 2 corners in a row.

I'd also question Graham's point about signing players on physicality and size to score more from set-plays. Yes, it helps but I'd prefer them to be good at their main job (defending) first. I dont want a team of 6 foot 7 giants that score 20 set piece headers but turn like the titanic at the back and every counter attack is held up by a big man and slowed right down.

Graham is absolutely right, unfortunately the way Argyle played in the first half of the season was not sustainable, even if Schuey and Finn Azaz had remained at the club.

Mark Robins' comments after the home game with Coventry were telling, coming from the longest serving manager in the division - you need superhuman athletes to play that way over 46 games.

This league is dominated by physically robust players who can clearly play football when they need to. It's telling that someone line Adam Forshaw, who isn't a tall guy by any stretch, and Mike Cooper, are two of the strongest looking players we have, despite neither being anywhere close to someone like Ashley Phillips' height (it's understandable in his case because he might not even have finished growing at his age).

 

[elburtontrev]

I'd take every corner short. Its a prime position to be in, and its always smacked into the box with no end result - and many times, allows the opposition to break quickly.

Short corners, and drive into the box with ball at feet. I don't know why this is not done more often.

Needs to be mixed up but yeah we looked more of a threat with the short corners, the corners one after another were so predictable on Saturday!
I really have been wondering what we've been doing in training, nothing has changed

 

[Graham Clark]

Don't mention the throw ins.

Bielsa famously devised 33 different routines from throw-ins. I am not sure any of those routines included giving it straight back to the opposition within one or two touches! Causes me more head in hands moments in games than any other.

 

[Pbennyboy]

Bielsa famously devised 33 different routines from throw-ins. I am not sure any of those routines included giving it straight back to the opposition within one or two touches! Causes me more head in hands moments in games than any other.

Would be an interesting stat to see how often we have lost possession directly after a throw in.....my guess is a pretty high %

 

[daront]

The issue i have is i have no idea what happens in training. Are the set pieces fantastic yet somehow turn to rubbish on the pitch 🤷
I agree mix it up a bit, short long, middle, stick it under cross bar etc.

 

[unhinched]

Here are some of the very best , but every one of these would have been rehearsed (a lot) in training.

10 GENIUS set pieces! Ft. Manchester United, Liverpool & AFC Bournemouth | Premier League

A compilation of 10 genius set piece routines featuring Premier League teams Manchester United, Liverpool, AFC Bournemouth & more!What’s your favourite set-p...

www.youtube.com

I don't even see Argyle attempt something that doesn't come off. If you haven't got many giants to head or wizards to cross you have to find ways to vary it up a bit.

 

[rsp4]

I have often raised our set piece inadequacies including at q & a with $$. Keep getting told teams don't score that often from set pieces. Feature on match of the day at the weekend showed how often Premier League teams score from them. Arsenal top with 22. Where would they be without them? I only remember us scoring from 2 corners one a flukey o.g. and possibly 1 free kick. Now we are struggling for goals it would have made a massive difference to be more productive. What do they do in training ? We must have had hundreds of corners this season. Every time an attack fizzles out and we get a corner you know what's going to happen. Absolutely no point in us getting a corner. Rant over

Agree BG

All our set pieces are tripe which includes throw ins, goal kicks and don't get me started when we kick off🤦

We all remember lurgy mk1 and the amount Coughlin and Wotton scored from corners and free kicks and as you say look at Arsenals stats.

The only corner routine I can remember coming off this season was Morgs at Swansea. It did seem a weak part of the RL/$$ era as we were more likely to concede than score at times.

Our throw ins as well never amount to much unless you have the skipper driving the team on.

A definite area to improve thats for sure

 

[GreenRich]

What I don’t get is Randells floating Corners they just don’t seem to cause any problems. When he put a bit more pace on it vs Qpr we scored from it (i know dodgy) but why doesn’t he do that more often? I know you have to mix it up but I don’t know why he doesn’t do that more often.

 

[Balham Green]

Would be an interesting stat to see how often we have lost possession directly after a throw in.....my guess is a pretty high %

I think that's just because we are not very good! Only a limited number of options if the players don't have the technical ability or physical strength.

 

[Nobby]

I have often raised our set piece inadequacies including at q & a with $$. Keep getting told teams don't score that often from set pieces. Feature on match of the day at the weekend showed how often Premier League teams score from them. Arsenal top with 22. Where would they be without them? I only remember us scoring from 2 corners one a flukey o.g. and possibly 1 free kick. Now we are struggling for goals it would have made a massive difference to be more productive. What do they do in training ? We must have had hundreds of corners this season. Every time an attack fizzles out and we get a corner you know what's going to happen. Absolutely no point in us getting a corner. Rant over

Totally agree and I would like to see us become one of the first teams outside the PL to invest in a specialist set piece coach.

The other reason Arsenal are so successful at them is because they have a team of big, tall, physical players. The starting back four are all 6ft+, are protected by Rice who is 6ft+ and Havertz is 6’4 and leads the line. In between that you have less physical guys like Saka and Odegaard who are elite technicians but also have super stamina and work rate. Off the ball, they are the best team in the world.

Now obviously we can’t or shouldnt expect to be able to do that, but my point is that comparatively to our level, our physical and technical profiles are so sorely lacking. With the exception of Scarr we don’t have anyone who offers above average physical presence and with the exception of Bali Mumba I’m not sure we have anyone that offers above average technical ability.

We really need take a good look at our recruitment and adjust the model this time around, whatever league we are in. Data analysis can be the bedrock of that still, but we need to marry that up with the physical traits needed.

 

[oldage]

Of the sixteen players that played v Millwall only six (including Coops) were over 6ft. Of those six many wouldn't put the physicality and heading ability of Whittaker and Hardie as robust and Coops, at 6'1", is one of the smallest keepers in the Championship.

The physicality and size requirement is not just an essential element at set plays (in attack and defence) but it is an essential requirement in competing for aerial duels, winning second balls, blocking runs and winning tackles. When 62.5% of your 16-man team is not over 6ft to my mind that is a recruitment deficiency, copared to just about every other team Argyle have played this season. The balance of physicality and height in the team needs to be postively addressed in the next window whether we are in the Championship or League One, particularly when marginal gains are so important in the outcome of matches.

Didn’t realise we had a mini Cooper in goal.

 

[Greenscombe]

Of the sixteen players that played v Millwall only six (including Coops) were over 6ft. Of those six many wouldn't put the physicality and heading ability of Whittaker and Hardie as robust and Coops, at 6'1", is one of the smallest keepers in the Championship.

The physicality and size requirement is not just an essential element at set plays (in attack and defence) but it is an essential requirement in competing for aerial duels, winning second balls, blocking runs and winning tackles. When 62.5% of your 16-man team is not over 6ft to my mind that is a recruitment deficiency, copared to just about every other team Argyle have played this season. The balance of physicality and height in the team needs to be postively addressed in the next window whether we are in the Championship or League One, particularly when marginal gains are so important in the outcome of matches.

I get the point but we won L1 with 100+ points with not many 6 foot+ players and by not scoring many set-piece goals. Personally I know what I would rather watch but I get the point, we need to compete more in midfield and have someone who can hold it up (as examples) if we want to make the next stride forward. I'd just say there is more than one way to skin a cat, as we saw last year.

 

[Greenscombe]

Graham is absolutely right, unfortunately the way Argyle played in the first half of the season was not sustainable, even if Schuey and Finn Azaz had remained at the club.

Mark Robins' comments after the home game with Coventry were telling, coming from the longest serving manager in the division - you need superhuman athletes to play that way over 46 games.

This league is dominated by physically robust players who can clearly play football when they need to. It's telling that someone line Adam Forshaw, who isn't a tall guy by any stretch, and Mike Cooper, are two of the strongest looking players we have, despite neither being anywhere close to someone like Ashley Phillips' height (it's understandable in his case because he might not even have finished growing at his age).

I guess we will never know if it was sustainable or not. With our group, I'd probably suggest not but if you look at Ipswich playing in a similar vain to how we did under SS - then yes, that style is sustainable, with a bigger squad and better players.

 

[Janner]

Our corners are so poor I cannot understand why the crowd cheers when we win one? Often the opposition gain more from them than we do .

I agree with old age why on earth do we continue to float the ball into the box and give the opposition plenty of time to respond.

 

[Jon with no H]

I guess we will never know if it was sustainable or not. With our group, I'd probably suggest not but if you look at Ipswich playing in a similar vain to how we did under SS - then yes, that style is sustainable, with a bigger squad and better players.

I just feel like if Mark Robins doesn't know what works/doesn't work in this league, nobody else possibly can!

Bigger and/or better squads make most things easier to repeat weekly, and we can see clearly for half a season it was working pretty well for Argyle which points to it being a numbers game. I suppose that's why Robins talked about the need for superhuman athletes.