Set pieces

[Graham Clark]

There is a strong correlation between goals from set plays and final League position. This season with League One completed both Portsmouth and Derby scored the most from set plays / pieces. According to OPTA for this season in the Championship we have scored 5 (21st place) and conceded 8 (17th place).

The Championship this season seems to have bent the statistical norm a little - Leeds are in the bottom three for goals scored from set plays and Leicester 17th. Cardiff have scored nearly 40% of their goals from set plays and Argyle have scored 7%. Even Birmingham have managed 16%.

In the final analysis the failure to score from set plays will be determinant in where we eventually finish. Whatever happens, next season the recruitment must centre more on physicality and size if the issue is to be addressed

 

[Paul green14]

Yes he is

Thanks . I thought so.

But we don't seem to have improved in either box since SImon Ireland's incorporation.

Dan Scarr would definitely score more if
he got better deliveries or we had new routines using Forshaw, Randell, Whittaker, Hardie etc..

 

[Jon with no H]

Thanks . I thought so.

But we don't seem to have improved in either box since SImon Ireland's incorporation.

Dan Scarr would definitely score more if
he got better deliveries or we had new routines using Forshaw, Randell, Whittaker, Hardie etc..

It doesn't matter what coaching you have available if the delivery isn't right. Right footers taking corners on the right is unlikely to yield as much as a left footer, even if you can put the ball exactly where you want it, which we don't seem to be able to do.

I heard on the radio yesterday that Arsenal have taken one outswinging corner so far this season, I think Argyle had more than that in the 2 minutes of the Millwall game I saw on YouTube yesterday.

The two I remember us scoring from, Swansea away and Watford at home were both taken by right footers on the left, although the Swansea one was a short corner.

Edited to add I've just watched the Watford highlights back to check the corner, and Morgan Whittaker looks about a foot taller than he does now. 2024 has not been kind to Argyle.

 

[BramcoteGreen]

Schumacher certainly liked a certain type of player.At the first game of the season when Huddersfield bossed the game either side of half time it was so obvious how much bigger faster and stronger they were in comparison.They weren’t very good however and players like Mumba Hardie and Whittaker are a bit more talented but the lack of physicality in the squad has to be addressed in the Summer whatever league we are in.Gibson had a free header on Saturday but wasn’t really expecting it .Would have made life a bit easier if it had gone in.Sadly with Argyle it is a life sentence so we have just got to get on with it.Come on Norwich!

 

[unhinched]

According to OPTA for this season in the Championship we have scored 5 (21st place) and conceded 8 (17th place).

This page says we've conceded 13.

EFL Championship goals conceded from set-pieces stats in 23/24 [ranked]

Another season in the EFL Championship is coming to a close, so we reflect on the teams who have conceded the most goals from set-pieces in 23/24.

trigger-the-press.com

Not sure which one is correct.
But I would assume a specialist set piece / set play coach would also work on defending set pieces as well as attacking.

 

[Graham Clark]

I checked OPTA does say 13 (not 8) which is why we are 17th worst for conceding. I read 8th worst as 8 goals.

 

[Balham Green]

I checked OPTA does say 13 (not 8) which is why we are 17th worst for conceding. I read 8th worst as 8 goals.

I assume that doesn't calculate goals conceded per set pieces defended. As we are under the cosh a lot we do have to defend quite a few!

 

[Quintrell Green]

I remember an interview with Paul Wotton where he said that Sturrock would have the players practice set pieces over and over again, to the point of boredom. I think I heard Martin Gritton say something similar. However, the numbers of goals scored/conceded from set pieces under Sturrock shows that this approach works.
Unfortunately we don’t have a person with Sturrock’s experience and track record in charge at the moment!

Paul Wotton was a tremendous dead ball kicker offering both power and accuracy. If you watched Arsenal versus Spurs on Sunday p.m. you would have recognised the effectiveness of that skill-set where in a corner kick, a ball was arrowed into the 6 yard box at great pace whilst Arsenal players ganged-up in order to block off the keeper and CB's being able to target the incoming ball. Admittedly Arsenal paid a fortune in order to attract Man City's dead ball guru away but I am sure they have the talented dead ball kickers who practice ad nauseum in order to get it right. It is not rocket science. All you need is the dead ball kicker who does not get easily bored.

 

[IPA]

Our set pieces have been amateurish for ages, including under Rataschuey.

I can't understand why we don't try the good old fashioned inswinging corner, drilled in with pace and swerve towards the near post.

Quite often the ball only needs a touch from either from an attacker or defender to end up in the net.

Having said that, do we actually have anyone capable of such a delivery?

 

[demportdave]

For a team that creates so few chances from open play, you might think we would be really well drilled on free kicks and corners, but we are so poor.

We even struggle with throw-ins.

 

[Greenscombe]

SS didnt sign players for set-pieces. He scored enough goals from open play not to depend on them. It is only now that those goals have dried up that we are looking for a set piece to save us. But I also agree with others - there is no point in employing a set piece coach until we have 1 or more players than can consistently deliver decent balls into the areas we want. At the moment our delivery is abysmal, shown by the fact that no one seems to take 2 corners in a row.

I'd also question Graham's point about signing players on physicality and size to score more from set-plays. Yes, it helps but I'd prefer them to be good at their main job (defending) first. I dont want a team of 6 foot 7 giants that score 20 set piece headers but turn like the titanic at the back and every counter attack is held up by a big man and slowed right down.

 

[Beyton Green]

Don't mention the throw ins.

 

[Butternubs]

I'd take every corner short. Its a prime position to be in, and its always smacked into the box with no end result - and many times, allows the opposition to break quickly.

Short corners, and drive into the box with ball at feet. I don't know why this is not done more often.

 

[Mark58]

Our corners are so poor I cannot understand why the crowd cheers when we win one? Often the opposition gain more from them than we do .

Agreed.

Far from getting excited at 'winning' a corner, my main concern lately is that we do not concede a goal from the very high number of breakaways!

 

[Graham Clark]

SS didnt sign players for set-pieces. He scored enough goals from open play not to depend on them. It is only now that those goals have dried up that we are looking for a set piece to save us. But I also agree with others - there is no point in employing a set piece coach until we have 1 or more players than can consistently deliver decent balls into the areas we want. At the moment our delivery is abysmal, shown by the fact that no one seems to take 2 corners in a row.

I'd also question Graham's point about signing players on physicality and size to score more from set-plays. Yes, it helps but I'd prefer them to be good at their main job (defending) first. I dont want a team of 6 foot 7 giants that score 20 set piece headers but turn like the titanic at the back and every counter attack is held up by a big man and slowed right down.

Of the sixteen players that played v Millwall only six (including Coops) were over 6ft. Of those six many wouldn't put the physicality and heading ability of Whittaker and Hardie as robust and Coops, at 6'1", is one of the smallest keepers in the Championship.

The physicality and size requirement is not just an essential element at set plays (in attack and defence) but it is an essential requirement in competing for aerial duels, winning second balls, blocking runs and winning tackles. When 62.5% of your 16-man team is not over 6ft to my mind that is a recruitment deficiency, copared to just about every other team Argyle have played this season. The balance of physicality and height in the team needs to be postively addressed in the next window whether we are in the Championship or League One, particularly when marginal gains are so important in the outcome of matches.