Recruitment (in January)

[Biggs]

We were not able to sign the players we desperately needed due to financial constraints and presumably unavailability of players. Foster did what he could in the circumstances.

We don't know that, all we can be fairly sure of is that Ian Foster was the person identifying the players and not the recruitment team. Everything else is guesswork but I'd be fascinated to know why that shift happened, especially with Foster being specifically appointed as a head coach (a role not typically concerned with recruitment) and not manager.

I find it fairly hard to believe that the recruitment team threw up their hands, admitted defeat at not finding any suitable targets within our budget, then handed over the reins to IF to see if he could do any better. My current guess is that he insisted on leading recruitment after the hours-long meeting that was referred to in his press conference, which if true is another huge problem that should have been identified at interview/job offer stage.

 

[Jon with no H]

I agree, a waste of our time and a waste of his as well. We really didn’t need another LB/LWB, we have Galloway, Miller and Mumba.

January just seemed to be a case of trying to fill the squad with as many Ian Foster men as possible without much consideration as to how much impact they’d actually have.

It seemed like Villa must have felt a bit guilty at recalling two loan players from us at the same time, so they lent Sousa to try to make up for one the recalls!

 

[oldage]

I’m not sure why some people are turning on data, sure, it doesn’t tell you everything, but for the most part our focus on data has been really successful in recent years, and as Biggs has pointed out above we had a poor January because we actually moved away from the data driven model in that we just let IF bring in whoever he wanted to

Perhaps we had to move away from the data driven model because it wasn’t working. We could have ended up recruiting nobody.

 

[jimsing]

Maybe the data showed that no-one was available with the skillset required, at the right price for us.

 

[greenpilled]

We don't know that, all we can be fairly sure of is that Ian Foster was the person identifying the players and not the recruitment team. Everything else is guesswork but I'd be fascinated to know why that shift happened, especially with Foster being specifically appointed as a head coach (a role not typically concerned with recruitment) and not manager.

I find it fairly hard to believe that the recruitment team threw up their hands, admitted defeat at not finding any suitable targets within our budget, then handed over the reins to IF to see if he could do any better.

I wouldn't say anyone "threw up their hands", but in more measured terms... to suggest Argyle were struggling to recruit Championship quality players on our below Championship budget and used Foster's contacts to supplement their efforts... Isn't that almost certainly exactly what happened?

Signing players isn't ike going to the supermarket. The data analysis doesn't just magic up names and we go out and buy them. They have to be Championship standard at a below Championship price. Their clubs have to be willing to let them go. They have to be willing to move to Plymouth. In the case of the KKH and Cundle replacements, they have to be identified and signed with no advance notice.

It's unbelievably difficult. We managed to get Forshaw and Sorinola who were n't Foster picks. We were trying to get Femi Azeez right up until the deadline (8 goals in League 1 for a team 17th in the table, but out of our price range). In that context, the links to the England youth players will have been a godsend rather than an imposition. In a way they were absolutely classic high risk moves that Simon encourages. Obviously talented players (best in their age group) but too risky for other Championship clubs because of their inexperience and therefore available to Argyle.

It hasn't worked out, but it's wide of the mark to think that it was some kind of dramatic change of policy. It was a response to an intractable problem that we'll face again in Summer if we stay up, and the logic behind it was pretty reasonable.

 

[Jon with no H]

Yep so we're in agreement then, data analysis can bring a player onto your radar, however then you have to scout them, see how there style fits your.playing structure, meet player to assess personal mentality - No matter how many analysts you employ, it won't give you insight into the latter attributes.

That's not the data's job really, it will only present you with a set of facts about in game performance. Analysts can only tell you who is doing what in games based on your previously agreed metrics.

 

[Biggs]

Fair points @greenpilled but I still think something has gone very wrong, when a person is hired specifically as a head coach and not a manager... yet ends up leading recruitment at a crucial time. It's not ideal at the best of times, but is disastrous when that head coach has an unexpectedly totally different way of playing to the previous manager... which leads to the muddle that this consistent recruitment strategy is meant to avoid.

The only positive or potential excuse is that they were all loans as a short-term support to him, and we're not stuck with players we don't want after Foster has left.

I think Forshaw was also a Foster signing from the comments at the time (said he needed to bring in experience alongside the younger players and that he pushed hard for the signing), and Parkinson's comments about Foster identifying targets.

 

[Greenlou64]

Whoever is the next manager he needs to bring his own back up staff start afresh. Dewsnip and Nance need to leave the team to the manager. All this modern day head coach is not needed with others behind dictating. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

 

[chottomat]

Need to sign Sam Cosgrove back from Barnsley or wherever he is. He was an incredible tactical sub and nearly always changed games. H&W aren't cutting it for me anymore / at the moment.

 

[crownhill pilgrim]

Without Schumacher and his coaching staff, we are threadbare and amateurish

Need to sign Sam Cosgrove back from Barnsley or wherever he is. He was an incredible tactical sub and nearly always changed games. H&W aren't cutting it for me anymore / at the moment.

Yeah, posted something similar somewhere else. He was a nuisance up front to the opposition and could actually finish.

 

[Montybulldog]

Because Andrew Parkinson's letter to fans stated that Ian Foster was given a budget and identified targets (which was obvious anyway as they were largely all England U20 players) in January, so that was a shift away from the data-driven recruitment process.



And agreed.

How's that a step away for DA, if the targets were identified and given to IF upon his arrival, suggests they were not scouted by IF, but info driven in house.

So bit confused by your point here

 

[Biggs]

How's that a step away for DA, if the targets were identified and given to IF upon his arrival, suggests they were not scouted by IF, but info driven in house.

So bit confused by your point here

I didn't say they were targets identified and given to IF though.

From AP's update... 'transfer budget was provided for Ian to sign players that he had identified'. I.e. they were his signings and not data driven, again if that wasn't obvious already when 4 of the 6 are England U20 players.

 

[Montybulldog]

ND also had major contacts at England youth level, I don't believe for a second all those signings were Fosters, by the time SH, AP & ND appointed a new manager half the window had gone, he would not have had the time to assess the squad and negotiatiate the loan dealings, ND was most likely influential there.

 

[Green Flash]

Obviously talented players (best in their age group) but too risky for other Championship clubs because of their inexperience and therefore available to Argyle.

Sort of but being in the top 30 or so of your age group is nothing like being a full international, for every 30 players that represents england at youth level in any particular age cohort I would think only 2 or 3 ever make the England team and probably only 4 or 5 have a premier league career.

 

[Montybulldog]

More likely they had draw up a list of players, and asked Foster at interview which ones he would select and why?

Well rest is history, I am not saying abandon Data analytics, just saying done believe its the be and end all of recruitment.