From Fairytale to Nightmare (or is it reality)

[Nobby]

Lived the fairytale last year. And even now l kind of have to pinch myself how we churned out result after result in order to win the league one championship. Nobody can take that away, and those memories shouldn't be forgotten or mean any less even if relegation was to happen.

I must admit l get really frustrated by the fact there is either a consistent gloom or some werid external sunshine where everything is just fantastic.

What we are experiencing isn't a group of bottle jobs. Its simply a lack of dealing with things when we were at our best. When we were europhic we could only see one outlook after a win. I'm not actually talking about the fans. I'm talking about the management & those dealing with this group of players. And so this season came along & what do we actually do thats so different??

Well Schumacher recognised the 3-4-2-1 might not work in this league as much as last season. So he changed it to a 4-3-3. And what did we see. We saw a side mode capable of still scoring in this league but less capable of defending. Away from home, we just couldn't stop teams running through us.

Schumacher had no idea how to stop this. From games away to games at HP, the fact was yes we were scoring but teams were getting more volume of chances in better areas of pitch. Yet we cleverly masked ourselves by looking like a free scoring team by being clinical. Exactly, what we did last season. Nobody complained because although the performances were pointing to issues, just last season, we got the results that masked over our defiencies. Nobody asked why were we letting in basic goals. Or why we kept giving away possesion. It didn't matter. We kept getting results. However, those results were only sustainable if Argyle kept their best attacking players. It wouldn't of even mattered if Schumacher remained, because the defensive issues we see of a CB not jumping for a ball with a 6"5 CB, players running at our defence unprotected by its midfield & simple neglect of basic passing mechanics within a team unit would still be there now. January would of come & Azaz would of been sold. How on earth would we have found someone to replace him. Not only this but we were like a club with a massive leak, tapping it up game after game after game under Schumacher. He wasn't sorting out the away form because he couldn't make us soild enough. After 4 months of trying, it wasn't ever about player recruitment but actually player coaching. Who was making Argyle pass out the back at Elland Rd committing passing suicidal by playing out the back? It was him. And this was only a reflection of what he did the season before? Yet we were clinical enough to get ourselves back in games. Sometimes we couldn't hide it. Yet after a hammering we sweep it under the carpet.

When you watched Argyle pass the ball last season were you honestly that impressed with how they kept possesion? How they interchanged with team mates. The fluidity of the way they moved the ball? Or were you impressed by when an oppostion lost the ball the transition of that move on the counter attack? Both is good football. Yet one isn't a possesion based style. Hence why Schumacher obsession to change to a 4-3-3. It allowed for width & fluidity. The trouble was we defended as a team unit as we did last season and it was hopless.

Now we come to games like Stoke & Millwall. I hear bottle jobs. I shiver. They aren't getting beaten because of fear. More to do with bad coaching. And if it isn't bad coaching then why after 2 years do we see the same players within a defensive team unit make the same mistakes. Maybe some aren't good enough. Yet when you watched Millwall, today was there anything that was standing out apart from the fact they were organised & physical. And it's OK if you want to play football but you got to earn it first. Argyle go on their pitch & look to execute a game plan that's play it along the back & punt it upfield. If that's not to do with coaching & tactics then it simply means we have a terrible team. Quite frankly, l don't we aren't any worse than some of these bottom 8 squads. I expected us to lose games but we are losing games in a manner where the football lacks any conviction. These teams around us are just better organised & physically stronger.

This has only turned into a nightmare, as we never addressed the reality of our defencies. Nothing will change next week. The whole build up will sound great. The messages from the club will make you believe we have a great performance in us. Yet when we get out on the pitch, and Hull move us around & the gaps appear we will get exposed to our lack of tactics in knowing how to deal with this. Maybe we can put everyone behind the ball,. Score a scruffy goal. Or Norwich do us a massive favour. Its just masking over the cracks.

The reality is this club needs good a manager/coach who can organise & coach these players. We need a backroom staff to help develop these players. We need to keep Nance here as you need that coach that has the connection between the fanbase/team plus he is a very motivational person. However, its now being proved he needs help with other coaches around him that can stop these players bad habits.

I can't deny l am going to be gutted if we get relegated. However, if this club doesn't sit up & realise how they let things drift to the point we are now here then if we do go down, it will be for nothing. If we are to get relegated, actually use this season as a learning curve for us to get better.

Very much agree. Basically every player has gone backwards since the moment Schuey walked out the door. They haven't simply just become bad footballers overnight and that's why I believe that there is enough talent in the squad to have pulled away from the dogfight, if it had been well coached. But as I have said on another thread, good coaching has been sorely lacking for months now. It is maybe unfair to expect it from Nance and Dewnsip in a six game window, which was always going to be about instilling confidence and going back to basics. But the tactics in the last two games have not helped. We are playing our League One team and have delivered league one performances and results in the last two games. I guess that shouldn't really be surprising, but I don't feel the coaching staff have really put them in a position to win, or make best use of the resources at their disposal. We have set up far too cautiously and paid the price for it.

I also agree with the sentiment that Norwich keeping us up would be masking over the cracks, but what I would say is that under Hallett's leadership we have shown consistent progression and evolution until these past couple of months. We have embraced new ways of thinking and operating and it has been largely successful. This year we are punching above our weight and after the derailment of our season, one important but bad decision is likely to be the difference between us staying up and going down. I think Hallett is a smart guy and a shrewd operator. I expect him to learn from this and believe he will. Good leaders make bad decisions sometimes, that just happens in life and we were fortunate that we'd had a 3 or 4 year run where everything worked out for us. Success is not linear and the summer is the opportunity for a rebuild and to start the next evolution of our team regardless of the division we are in. The Championship affords us the ability to attract better talent overall, but being in League One offers us the ability to take the premium talent at that level, with really only Wrexham, Huddersfield, Peterborough and Bolton able to compete financially. That's a different landscape to the one we excelled in last year where we were an underdog.

Personally, I really hope we get over the line whether it's our own doing or not. I believe the players can deliver one big performance with a full HP behind them, as they did v Leicester. This season, for two thirds at least, has been so enjoyable. Entertaining games of football, big crowds, quality players on show. The idea of going down and facing off against teams like Burton and Cambridge again is quite depressing.

 

[oldage]

My concern is that if we go down it could be a while before we bounce back. Last season’s success was very much an exception and realistically in league 1 even Wrexham will have a better budget and probably a better team. Looking back at this season it has been an interesting journey but one I would not look forward to again unless there were dramatic changes.

 

[oldage]

Very much agree. Basically every player has gone backwards since the moment Schuey walked out the door. They haven't simply just become bad footballers overnight and that's why I believe that there is enough talent in the squad to have pulled away from the dogfight, if it had been well coached. But as I have said on another thread, good coaching has been sorely lacking for months now. It is maybe unfair to expect it from Nance and Dewnsip in a six game window, which was always going to be about instilling confidence and going back to basics. But the tactics in the last two games have not helped. We are playing our League One team and have delivered league one performances and results in the last two games. I guess that shouldn't really be surprising, but I don't feel the coaching staff have really put them in a position to win, or make best use of the resources at their disposal. We have set up far too cautiously and paid the price for it.

I also agree with the sentiment that Norwich keeping us up would be masking over the cracks, but what I would say is that under Hallett's leadership we have shown consistent progression and evolution until these past couple of months. We have embraced new ways of thinking and operating and it has been largely successful. This year we are punching above our weight and after the derailment of our season, one important but bad decision is likely to be the difference between us staying up and going down. I think Hallett is a smart guy and a shrewd operator. I expect him to learn from this and believe he will. Good leaders make bad decisions sometimes, that just happens in life and we were fortunate that we'd had a 3 or 4 year run where everything worked out for us. Success is not linear and the summer is the opportunity for a rebuild and to start the next evolution of our team regardless of the division we are in. The Championship affords us the ability to attract better talent overall, but being in League One offers us the ability to take the premium talent at that level, with really only Wrexham, Huddersfield, Peterborough and Bolton able to compete financially. That's a different landscape to the one we excelled in last year where we were an underdog.

Personally, I really hope we get over the line whether it's our own doing or not. I believe the players can deliver one big performance with a full HP behind them, as they did v Leicester. This season, for two thirds at least, has been so enjoyable. Entertaining games of football, big crowds, quality players on show. The idea of going down and facing off against teams like Burton and Cambridge again is quite depressing.

The positive from being cautious is our superior goal difference. IMO we are bereft of quality and all the coaching in the world cannot alter this.

 

[Mark Smith]

Before Christmas there was a (very hypothetical!) thread about getting to the Premiership. I said that if that ever happened we should make absolutely no financial effort to stay up, cheer every goal like it was the European Cup Final, take all the money, accept relegation from day one and fall back into the Championship a wealthier and stronger club.

I'm not sure why I don't feel the same way about this season and falling back into League One. I don't know enough about our finances to say if we have benefited this year or not. Maybe only on the "experience" front.

I suppose it's simply because I don't like to think of us as third tier. Yo-yoing around has also not helped Rotherham, as far as I can tell, but they are an even smaller outfit than us.

 

[Nobby]

The positive from being cautious is our superior goal difference. IMO we are bereft of quality and all the coaching in the world cannot alter this.

And the negative is that we lost both games and accumulated a -4 GD in the process. We were playing Milwall and Stoke, even with less quality than them, if we had a more positive outlook on the game, we might have got something, particularly yesterday. Sometimes the better team doesn't always win.

 

[HartleyGreen]

On a positive note, we could get relegated and end up playing Wrexham which an extremely wealthy American happens to be watching, makes the connection with being the Pilgrims and fancies a long term project of their own and decides to pump tens of millions of pounds into the club.

Maybe.

 

[Green Flash]

.

I also have a horrible feeling that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity to really move the club forward, and both Schumacher and Argyle Green left because the focus was on Brickfields. Perhaps we could have shifted focus briefly to really take advantage of that on-pitch momentum.

I think you may have hit the nail here. I will never cease to be appreciative of everything Simon has done, and I understand his wish to prioritise long term investment in infrastructure over one season's playing budget, but he appears to have badly underestimated the budget needed to stay up, perhaps thinking the alchemy of the season before could be repeated, and his fellow investors and his manager saw it coming.

 

[oldage]

And the negative is that we lost both games and accumulated a -4 GD in the process. We were playing Milwall and Stoke, even with less quality than them, if we had a more positive outlook on the game, we might have got something, particularly yesterday. Sometimes the better team doesn't always win.

No point having a positive outlook if we do not have the players to deliver. I cannot see where the next goal is coming from. We have relied so heavily on Hardie and Whittaker because the rest of the team have failed abysmally to help out with goals. Our CB’s should be contributing at corners in this regard but are hopeless.

 

[crownhill pilgrim]

The truth is, we had no contingency plan after Shuey left and took most of the staff with him. The manager recruitment was amateurish and when Foster was found out there was no contingency plan then either... League 1/2 decisions and club management in the Championship was always going to result in a messy end to the season.

Whether we stay up or go down, next season in going to be tough - either way it'll be a big rebuilding project and the manager recruitment will have to be spot-on (a la SW or QPR).

 

[Nobby]

No point having a positive outlook if we do not have the players to deliver. I cannot see where the next goal is coming from. We have relied so heavily on Hardie and Whittaker because the rest of the team have failed abysmally to help out with goals. Our CB’s should be contributing at corners in this regard but are hopeless.

But this is the point Oldage, we’ve never at any point this year had the players to deliver repeat clean sheets with ground out 1-0 wins.

Until the end of January, we did have the players to deliver attacking performances.

We abandoned the latter in favour of the former and now cannot get back to it.

These last three games we needed one win. Trying to grind out a 1-0 win and nick a goal if we are lucky was not the way to do that. It worked vs Leicester because they are so clearly superior in terms of quality. Stoke and Millwall were not. We needed to take the handbrake off and just go for it and instead we lost both times with a whimper.

Whittaker, Bundu, Hardie all carry a goal threat. Instead of trying to load the midfield with energy and creativity to support them (Devine, Wright) we have just sat super deep and then tried to break with players miles apart from each other and isolated. That was never going to lend itself to scoring goals. When we pile bodies forward with intent we can create chances (see Blackburn) and we’ve just decided to be cautious and not bother.

 

[jimsing]

No point having a positive outlook if we do not have the players to deliver. I cannot see where the next goal is coming from. We have relied so heavily on Hardie and Whittaker because the rest of the team have failed abysmally to help out with goals. Our CB’s should be contributing at corners in this regard but are hopeless.

Oldy, we are a div 1 team trying to compete in the Championship.

There has been very little change in our numbers since we were promoted, and we have reverted to div 1 experience since the latest manager was sacked.

January was the period to get in Championship experienced players, but our manager brought in kids.

I think he got confused with the club's policy of bringing in youth, improving them, and then selling them on at a profit!

I'm positive that, whatever division we find ourselves in, we will reset with a new manager (or head coach even) we will lose players, we will gain players, and the club will have learned so much during this season's slog.

Should we stay in this division or get relegated, we will be better off for the experiences this season has given us.

 

[jimsing]

But this is the point Oldage, we’ve never at any point this year had the players to deliver repeat clean sheets with ground out 1-0 wins.

Until the end of January, we did have the players to deliver attacking performances.

We abandoned the latter in favour of the former and now cannot get back to it.

These last three games we needed one win. Trying to grind out a 1-0 win and nick a goal if we are lucky was not the way to do that. It worked vs Leicester because they are so clearly superior in terms of quality. Stoke and Millwall were not. We needed to take the handbrake off and just go for it and instead we lost both times with a whimper.

Whittaker, Bundu, Hardie all carry a goal threat. Instead of trying to load the midfield with energy and creativity to support them (Devine, Wright) we have just sat super deep and then tried to break with players miles apart from each other and isolated. That was never going to lend itself to scoring goals. When we pile bodies forward with intent we can create chances (see Blackburn) and we’ve just decided to be cautious and not bother.

We haven't found ourselves in this position because of the lack of wins in the last three games.

We have had a whole season to gain those extra points need to avoid relegation. Just a couple of points would have done.

Think back to where we could, should, have gained those points and you will see that the last few games are not where we have lost it all.

We have been unlucky, we have been naieve, we have been inexperienced, we have been all those things that have lost us points during the season, but we expected this. We haven't been in this division for more than ten years and it showed.

We shouldn't beat ourselves up over it. It is an experience that will hold us in good stead in the future, whichever division we find ourselves next season.

 

[Nobby]

We haven't found ourselves in this position because of the lack of wins in the last three games.

We have had a whole season to gain those extra points need to avoid relegation. Just a couple of points would have done.

Think back to where we could, should, have gained those points and you will see that the last few games are not where we have lost it all.

We have been unlucky, we have been naieve, we have been inexperienced, we have been all those things that have lost us points during the season, but we expected this. We haven't been in this division for more than ten years and it showed.

We shouldn't beat ourselves up over it. It is an experience that will hold us in good stead in the future, whichever division we find ourselves next season.

I agree but following the Leicester game there was nothing we could do about the 42 games that came before. Stoke and Millwall were ahead of us and both perfectly winnable with the right approach.

 

[Tugboat]

I’ll take some comfort that whatever league we will be in next season, this season will be utterly crucial to our learning experience of what the championship is all about.

 

[Yammerman]

If Schumacher had stayed I believe we would have got enough points to stay up already. He really believed in the positive football and rarely took a backward step. The first half of the season was full of exceptional attacking football, home and away. In many games after we'd dominated and dropped points the opposition fans would you say, 'don't worry you'll stay up, you'll be fine' .....etc etc. Schumacher was key to it and his departure a body blow.
Azaz was always going but I think Cundell would have stayed If Stoke hadn't come calling. Villa did us twice, taking both Azaz and KKH back, the latter looks much better than what we have now. The failure to get in one, if not two other strikers over two windows is mystifying. It has left us with two very good forwards looking spent.

I'd have stuck with Foster, despite his failings, as while that change brought 7 points, the football has been another level of awful. The idea we 'have our Argyle back is simply untrue, there is even less pattern to our play than under Foster.
With our budget we've over achieved for a long period but now we are massively under performing. The players are better than they have recently showed and I'm really hoping something clicks and we go down fighting backed by a loud vociferous crowd.

The sickening feeling as results have gone against us each week is hard to credit, it feels like payback for the previous golden season. It was always going to be a close run thing, but this last game drama is too white knuckle for my liking. I hope the players find some belief against Hull, who looked decent last night and the crowd can drag them over the line.
Just one season in Championship is nowhere near enough and I for one, would love to see many more.