From Fairytale to Nightmare (or is it reality) | PASOTI
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From Fairytale to Nightmare (or is it reality)

MGM

✨Pasoti Donor✨
Dec 7, 2021
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Lived the fairytale last year. And even now l kind of have to pinch myself how we churned out result after result in order to win the league one championship. Nobody can take that away, and those memories shouldn't be forgotten or mean any less even if relegation was to happen.

I must admit l get really frustrated by the fact there is either a consistent gloom or some werid external sunshine where everything is just fantastic.

What we are experiencing isn't a group of bottle jobs. Its simply a lack of dealing with things when we were at our best. When we were europhic we could only see one outlook after a win. I'm not actually talking about the fans. I'm talking about the management & those dealing with this group of players. And so this season came along & what do we actually do thats so different??

Well Schumacher recognised the 3-4-2-1 might not work in this league as much as last season. So he changed it to a 4-3-3. And what did we see. We saw a side mode capable of still scoring in this league but less capable of defending. Away from home, we just couldn't stop teams running through us.

Schumacher had no idea how to stop this. From games away to games at HP, the fact was yes we were scoring but teams were getting more volume of chances in better areas of pitch. Yet we cleverly masked ourselves by looking like a free scoring team by being clinical. Exactly, what we did last season. Nobody complained because although the performances were pointing to issues, just last season, we got the results that masked over our defiencies. Nobody asked why were we letting in basic goals. Or why we kept giving away possesion. It didn't matter. We kept getting results. However, those results were only sustainable if Argyle kept their best attacking players. It wouldn't of even mattered if Schumacher remained, because the defensive issues we see of a CB not jumping for a ball with a 6"5 CB, players running at our defence unprotected by its midfield & simple neglect of basic passing mechanics within a team unit would still be there now. January would of come & Azaz would of been sold. How on earth would we have found someone to replace him. Not only this but we were like a club with a massive leak, tapping it up game after game after game under Schumacher. He wasn't sorting out the away form because he couldn't make us soild enough. After 4 months of trying, it wasn't ever about player recruitment but actually player coaching. Who was making Argyle pass out the back at Elland Rd committing passing suicidal by playing out the back? It was him. And this was only a reflection of what he did the season before? Yet we were clinical enough to get ourselves back in games. Sometimes we couldn't hide it. Yet after a hammering we sweep it under the carpet.

When you watched Argyle pass the ball last season were you honestly that impressed with how they kept possesion? How they interchanged with team mates. The fluidity of the way they moved the ball? Or were you impressed by when an oppostion lost the ball the transition of that move on the counter attack? Both is good football. Yet one isn't a possesion based style. Hence why Schumacher obsession to change to a 4-3-3. It allowed for width & fluidity. The trouble was we defended as a team unit as we did last season and it was hopless.

Now we come to games like Stoke & Millwall. I hear bottle jobs. I shiver. They aren't getting beaten because of fear. More to do with bad coaching. And if it isn't bad coaching then why after 2 years do we see the same players within a defensive team unit make the same mistakes. Maybe some aren't good enough. Yet when you watched Millwall, today was there anything that was standing out apart from the fact they were organised & physical. And it's OK if you want to play football but you got to earn it first. Argyle go on their pitch & look to execute a game plan that's play it along the back & punt it upfield. If that's not to do with coaching & tactics then it simply means we have a terrible team. Quite frankly, l don't we aren't any worse than some of these bottom 8 squads. I expected us to lose games but we are losing games in a manner where the football lacks any conviction. These teams around us are just better organised & physically stronger.

This has only turned into a nightmare, as we never addressed the reality of our defencies. Nothing will change next week. The whole build up will sound great. The messages from the club will make you believe we have a great performance in us. Yet when we get out on the pitch, and Hull move us around & the gaps appear we will get exposed to our lack of tactics in knowing how to deal with this. Maybe we can put everyone behind the ball,. Score a scruffy goal. Or Norwich do us a massive favour. Its just masking over the cracks.

The reality is this club needs good a manager/coach who can organise & coach these players. We need a backroom staff to help develop these players. We need to keep Nance here as you need that coach that has the connection between the fanbase/team plus he is a very motivational person. However, its now being proved he needs help with other coaches around him that can stop these players bad habits.

I can't deny l am going to be gutted if we get relegated. However, if this club doesn't sit up & realise how they let things drift to the point we are now here then if we do go down, it will be for nothing. If we are to get relegated, actually use this season as a learning curve for us to get better.
 
Last edited:
Sep 28, 2022
582
925
Lived the fairytale last year. And even now l kind of have to pinch myself how we churned out result after result in order to win the league one championship. Nobody can take that away, and those memories shouldn't be forgotten or mean any less even if relegation was to happen.

I must admit l get really frustrated by the fact there is either a consistent gloom or some werid external sunshine where everything is just fantastic.

What we are experiencing isn't a group of bottle jobs. Its simply a lack of dealing with things when we were at our best. When we were europhic we could only see one outlook after a win. I'm not actually talking about the fans. I'm talking about the management & those dealing with this group of players. And so this season came along & what do we actually do thats so different??

Well Schumacher recognised the 3-4-2-1 might not work in this league as much as last season. So he changed it to a 4-3-3. And what did we see. We saw a side mode capable of still scoring in this league but less capable of defending. Away from home, we just couldn't stop teams running through us.

Schumacher had no idea how to stop this. From games away to games at HP, the fact was yes we were scoring but teams were getting more volume of chances in better areas of pitch. Yet we cleverly masked ourselves by looking like a free scoring team by being clinical. Exactly, what we did last season. Nobody complained because although the performances were pointing to issues, just last season, we got the results that masked over our defiencies. Nobody asked why were we letting in basic goals. Or why we kept giving away possesion. It didn't matter. We kept getting results. However, those results were only sustainable if Argyle kept their best attacking players. It wouldn't of even mattered if Schumacher remained, because the defensive issues we see of a CB not jumping for a ball with a 6"5 CB, players running at our defence unprotected by its midfield & simple neglect of basic passing mechanics within a team unit would still be there now. January would of come & Azaz would of been sold. How on earth would we have found someone to replace him. Not only this but we were like a club with a massive leak, tapping it up game after game after game under Schumacher. He wasn't sorting out the away form because he couldn't make us soild enough. After 4 months of trying, it wasn't ever about player recruitment but actually player coaching. Who was making Argyle pass out the back at Elland Rd committing passing suicidal by playing out the back? It was him. And this was only a reflection of what he did the season before? Yet we were clinical enough to get ourselves back in games. Sometimes we couldn't hide it. Yet after a hammering we sweep it under the carpet.

When you watched Argyle pass the ball last season were you honestly that impressed with how they kept possesion? How they interchanged with team mates. The fluidity of the way they moved the ball? Or were you impressed by when an oppostion lost the ball the transition of that move on the counter attack? Both is good football. Yet one isn't a possesion based style. Hence why Schumacher obsession to change to a 4-3-3. It allowed for width & fluidity. The trouble was we defended as a team unit as we did last season and it was hopless.

Now we come to games like Stoke & Millwall. I hear bottle jobs. I shiver. They aren't getting beaten because of fear. More to do with bad coaching. And if it isn't bad coaching then why after 2 years do we see the same players within a defensive team unit make the same mistakes. Maybe some aren't good enough. Yet when you watched Millwall, today was there anything that was standing out apart from the fact they were organised & physical. And it's OK if you want to play football but you got to earn it first. Argyle go on their pitch & look to execute a game plan that's play it along the back & punt it upfield. If that's not to do with coaching & tactics then it simply means we have a terrible team. Quite frankly, l don't we aren't any worse than some of these bottom 8 squads. I expected us to lose games but we are losing games in a manner where the football lacks any conviction. These teams around us are just better organised & physically stronger.

This has only turned into a nightmare, as we never addressed the reality of our defencies. Nothing we change next week. The whole build up will sound great. The messages from the club will make you believe we have a great performance in us. Yet when we get out on the pitch, and Hull move us around & the gaps appear we will get exposed to our lack tactics in knowing how to deal with this. Maybe we can put everyone behind the ball,. Score a scruffy goal. Or Norwich do us a massive favour. Its just masking over the cracks.

The reality is this club needs good a manager/coach who can organise & coach these players. He needs a backroom staff to help develop these players. We need to keep Nance here as you need that coach that has the connection between the fanbase/team plus he is a very motivational person. However, its now being proved he needs help with other coaches around him that can stop these players bad habits.

I can't deny l am going to be gutted if we get relegated. However, if this club doesn't sit up & realise how they let things drift to the point we are now here then if we do go down, it will be for nothing. If we are to get relegated, actually use this season as a learning curve for us to get better.
Sounds like we need Neil Warnock. End of!
 
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Jun 4, 2015
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Lived the fairytale last year. And even now l kind of have to pinch myself how we churned out result after result in order to win the league one championship. Nobody can take that away, and those memories shouldn't be forgotten or mean any less even if relegation was to happen.

I must admit l get really frustrated by the fact there is either a consistent gloom or some werid external sunshine where everything is just fantastic.

What we are experiencing isn't a group of bottle jobs. Its simply a lack of dealing with things when we were at our best. When we were europhic we could only see one outlook after a win. I'm not actually talking about the fans. I'm talking about the management & those dealing with this group of players. And so this season came along & what do we actually do thats so different??

Well Schumacher recognised the 3-4-2-1 might not work in this league as much as last season. So he changed it to a 4-3-3. And what did we see. We saw a side mode capable of still scoring in this league but less capable of defending. Away from home, we just couldn't stop teams running through us.

Schumacher had no idea how to stop this. From games away to games at HP, the fact was yes we were scoring but teams were getting more volume of chances in better areas of pitch. Yet we cleverly masked ourselves by looking like a free scoring team by being clinical. Exactly, what we did last season. Nobody complained because although the performances were pointing to issues, just last season, we got the results that masked over our defiencies. Nobody asked why were we letting in basic goals. Or why we kept giving away possesion. It didn't matter. We kept getting results. However, those results were only sustainable if Argyle kept their best attacking players. It wouldn't of even mattered if Schumacher remained, because the defensive issues we see of a CB not jumping for a ball with a 6"5 CB, players running at our defence unprotected by its midfield & simple neglect of basic passing mechanics within a team unit would still be there now. January would of come & Azaz would of been sold. How on earth would we have found someone to replace him. Not only this but we were like a club with a massive leak, tapping it up game after game after game under Schumacher. He wasn't sorting out the away form because he couldn't make us soild enough. After 4 months of trying, it wasn't ever about player recruitment but actually player coaching. Who was making Argyle pass out the back at Elland Rd committing passing suicidal by playing out the back? It was him. And this was only a reflection of what he did the season before? Yet we were clinical enough to get ourselves back in games. Sometimes we couldn't hide it. Yet after a hammering we sweep it under the carpet.

When you watched Argyle pass the ball last season were you honestly that impressed with how they kept possesion? How they interchanged with team mates. The fluidity of the way they moved the ball? Or were you impressed by when an oppostion lost the ball the transition of that move on the counter attack? Both is good football. Yet one isn't a possesion based style. Hence why Schumacher obsession to change to a 4-3-3. It allowed for width & fluidity. The trouble was we defended as a team unit as we did last season and it was hopless.

Now we come to games like Stoke & Millwall. I hear bottle jobs. I shiver. They aren't getting beaten because of fear. More to do with bad coaching. And if it isn't bad coaching then why after 2 years do we see the same players within a defensive team unit make the same mistakes. Maybe some aren't good enough. Yet when you watched Millwall, today was there anything that was standing out apart from the fact they were organised & physical. And it's OK if you want to play football but you got to earn it first. Argyle go on their pitch & look to execute a game plan that's play it along the back & punt it upfield. If that's not to do with coaching & tactics then it simply means we have a terrible team. Quite frankly, l don't we aren't any worse than some of these bottom 8 squads. I expected us to lose games but we are losing games in a manner where the football lacks any conviction. These teams around us are just better organised & physically stronger.

This has only turned into a nightmare, as we never addressed the reality of our defencies. Nothing will change next week. The whole build up will sound great. The messages from the club will make you believe we have a great performance in us. Yet when we get out on the pitch, and Hull move us around & the gaps appear we will get exposed to our lack of tactics in knowing how to deal with this. Maybe we can put everyone behind the ball,. Score a scruffy goal. Or Norwich do us a massive favour. Its just masking over the cracks.

The reality is this club needs good a manager/coach who can organise & coach these players. We need a backroom staff to help develop these players. We need to keep Nance here as you need that coach that has the connection between the fanbase/team plus he is a very motivational person. However, its now being proved he needs help with other coaches around him that can stop these players bad habits.

I can't deny l am going to be gutted if we get relegated. However, if this club doesn't sit up & realise how they let things drift to the point we are now here then if we do go down, it will be for nothing. If we are to get relegated, actually use this season as a learning curve for us to get better.

👏
 
Jan 6, 2004
6,814
7,277
What I find most depressing is that I had hoped this time we were promoted to the second tier would be different from previous occasions. I hoped under Hallett and possible new investors we would do more than cling on for a few years and then get relegated back again as we did in the 70s, 80s and 00s. Seems like it might be different from before, but worse, we go straight back down...Turns out trying to avoid relegation with the second smallest budget while losing our manager and making a disastrous appointment to replace him is probably just too big an ask. The drop off of form of our star players that we almost totally relied on for goals, Morgan and Hardie, which may or may not be related to the managerial changes, was the final straw.
 
May 16, 2016
7,304
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Thing is, as disappointing an end to the season it's going to be, whether we scrape survival or not, we're where we'd all expected to be. How many of us said before this season started, we'd take last day survival by a point or even Goal Difference but wouldn'tbe surprised if we were relegated... . .....and here we are......yet some seem to struggle with the reality of it all.

The writing was on the wall when we were celebrating spending record fees on Whittaker and Mumba for amounts that wouldn't even cover the weekly wage bills for some of our rivals.

Admittedly the events of this season wouldn't get past the draft stages if it were wrtten as the plot and script for a movie, but it's our reality unfortunately.

If we do pull off the great escape and stay up, we'll still have seen the last of a chunk of our squad, they'll either be ready to move on or deemed not good enough for this level by whoever comes in.

Whatever happens, it's going to be a long summer with some major rebuilding needed.
 

Biggs

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What I find most depressing is that I had hoped this time we were promoted to the second tier would be different from previous occasions.

This. It’s the hope that kills you and the realisation that it is still ‘same old Argyle’. We had a few months of looking like something special was happening, before an act of betrayal that I still can’t get my head around, compounded by an appalling managerial appointment.

I must say, I’m going to find it really hard to get excited or emotionally invested in another Argyle side again, when we know it can implode so quickly. I guess barring huge financial investment.

I also have a horrible feeling that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity to really move the club forward, and both Schumacher and Argyle Green left because the focus was on Brickfields. Perhaps we could have shifted focus briefly to really take advantage of that on-pitch momentum.
 
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Mark Smith

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Sep 15, 2003
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I was one of many on this site who, this time last year, was saying "I'd be more than happy if we finish fourth from bottom". (I was also assuming there would be some points deductions for the less financially responsible clubs - another area where we seem to have lucked out this season.)

Poor, naive me. It's so easy to give away future success. It reminds me of the chant: "What do we want? Instant gratification! When do we want it?" ...etc.

I was forgetting that finishing fourth from bottom would inevitably come on the back of a string of poor and disappointing performances and a nervous last-day finish, watching other teams' scores and doing real-time GD sums.

And here we are.

It will be really tough to take if we go down, after last year's achievements. And for all of the talk about budget, at the start of the season we certainly looked capable of holding our own in the bottom third and keeping 7 or 8 teams below us.

I think it will be a major setback for our long-term plans. My dad used to say "the Third Division is an easy league to drop into and a devil to climb out of." Look how long it took Ipswich, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Bolton, Derby, etc. with their fan base, infrastructure and ownership.

We did it last year not with brute financial force but with a one-off team that was assembled to be far more than the sum of the parts. In a way, the more difficult and less repeatable route.

While I am all for the academy, and it's where 100% of my EG money goes, I suspect those American investors dropping out when they did was way more significant than we thought at the time.
 

mutley marvel

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Feb 13, 2021
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Reality is we do not have a Chairman with deep enough pockets
Reality is we do not have in our squad enough Championship quality & we cannot rely on 2 players (Morgs & Hotdog) to carry the team week in week out
Reality is the Championship is an enormous financial animal compared the the last time we were in the League
Money is the primary driver of that league & when you don't have the means to compete it sadly ends in tears
If we stay up - next season will be more of the same
 
Jan 21, 2007
542
509
Far more chance of Birmingham beating Norwich than us beating hull
I just don’t really get all of this negativity; particularly comments like this 🙄👆. Apart from tuning in, watching the game, making a few noises, what else can you really do to impact the result? When it comes down to it, it’s Argyle’s team against someone else’s team; is there any way that we can positively influence the result? Maybe during the match, yes, but there are pages and pages, threads repeating previous threats, some people have written actual paragraphs about anything/everything that can go wrong. If I was a player that read 💩 like this, I’d be so negatively affected by this stuff before I even set foot on the pitch, regardless of the shouting, chanting, and singing during the game.

Do a lot of you even know how psychology works? If you tell someone that they’re 💩 often enough, they will eventually fulfill your prophecy; whether you like it or not.
 
Dec 28, 2023
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Avoiding relegation was our mission this season to then start building and establishing ourselves as a Championship outfit.
Only teams coming up with massive financial backing could expect to properly compete such as Ipswich.

Before a ball was kicked at the start of the season we all expected to be where we are right now.

If we avoid relegation our next moves are hugely important in terms of finding additional investment and starting a rebuilding process with the right manager to be a competitive side.
 
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Aug 3, 2013
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Personally i think this season is a massive wake up call to all of us. The championship is made up of multi millionaire teams, mostly ex prem or established championship teams with big stadiums, good off the pitch money making facilities. Great youth set ups and good catchment areas. Look at a map and see where all the teams are. Look at last years league one budget, i think Ipswich team was 16+ million 🤔😱😱

Argyle is an outlier, what i mean by that is we are a very small team when it comes to, ground, budget, youth set up, non match day facilities and revenue. This is no slight agaisnt the board of SH as they i feel have been fantastic. From where we were to where we are now is simply unbelievable.
We are building a club, it takes times, money and effort. They will be ups and downs. Look at Newcastle and Chelsea, all that money poured in and still not in the top 4. As a foorball fan its hard ro be patient but easy to blame people and spend others money.

To still be in the championship on the last day of the season with it still in our hands i honestly think 99% of us fans would have snapped that arm off. To deal with the poo that was SS leaving when he did was Completely unexpected and you can see by SH demeanour and interview how gutted he was and how much it hurt.

If we stay up thats great, potential for new investment and the experience gained will be invaluable going forward.

If we go down will be gutting but again gained valuable experience and also a good amount of money to invest into the club, both players and facilities.

I understand people venting but feeling the need to publicly call out people calling them poo and verbal abuse is unacceptable. Why would players and owners want to be part of a club when treated like that? The board, owner and players have given there all, they have worked hard to try to please the fans, build a better club and for that i personally thank them. Granted some need a reset, a rest and benched but they will go again. It worked well for two years but this year after Christmas it has not worked. It happens in life and business 🤷, success will bring failure.

Going forward i will support the club, owners, managers and players no matter where we are. I will ride this emotional rollercoaster to the end and see where it take us no matter what league we are in.

We are Argyle, the whole football world looks at us and thinks who and where, we need to show them who we are and our values and that is supporting our club through the good and bad times. We have done it countless times before this is no different.

COYG.
 
May 11, 2023
105
189
Like a number of other posters I thought at the start of the season that if we still had matters in our own hands on the last day that wouldn't be too bad a position to be in. BUT we have arrived here in such a dreadful run of form (7 goals in our last 14 games) and against a team in Hull who can still make the play-offs and have the third best away record in the league (only Leicester and Ipswich have more away points) that it is hard to be optimistic. It is true that Birmingham HAVE to win but I think they have the easier task against Norwich. COYG