Enough already?

[demportdave]

Oh, How I wish I was as grown-up as you Dave

So do I.

 

[X Isle]

A good post Ave It and funnily enough I had the same conversation this morning about a Bury clique forming with someone like Gary Sawyer being marginalised in the dressing room.

... and then minutes later Ryan Lowe confirms that Gary Sawyer remains as Club Captain!

If he plays, said Lowe.

"32,000 actually" :roll:

 

[up the line]

Pains me to say it but have to agree 100% with X Isle on this.
I couldn't give a toss if Scott Wootton gets upset at not being included on the mini golf invite email. I would hope the remaining players have enough sense and professionalism to understand that they were part of Argyle's relegation so the new faces are there to improve the club and don't get a sad on just because Danny Mayor shares an in joke or two with Will Aimson.

 

[Cobi Budge]

In a nutshell, we’ve had and have the opportunity to sign good League 2 players from Bury, players who know Lowe’s philosophy, players who like Lowe and players who Lowe knows well, what’s not to like? I find it odd that people would prefer we took a risk on players who Lowe doesn’t know & perhaps aren’t so proven.

 

[OnicknowlePete]

Don't forget that a number of Argyle players relegated ALSO have the experience of being promoted from league two, so the squad we end up with will have a significant number of players who have been promoted and got the T shirt. I don't get the hand wringing about too many Bury players or cliques forming, I fully trust the manager and his staff to ensure all players are singing from the same hymn sheet, and as the manager has already stated "it's my way or the high way" so I don't see any problems arising along the lines raised in this strange thread,
Pete

 

[Andy S]

I can’t remember the last time I was looking forward to a new season as much as this one. I was delighted we got RL after all that waiting – and the signings all seem to be excellent (especially Danny Mayor which surprised us all)……….. BUT.

I do feel uncomfortable with the whole Bury thing – I just can’t help but feel it’s rather like going through a dying man’s pockets. Don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying we shouldn’t. I know full well it’s not our fault and taking some imaginary moral high ground would be ludicrous …….and the people involved all deserve to move on and certainly have no blame either – they went above and beyond during their time at Bury.

But there are other concerns that make me wonder if it’s enough now already. We’ve got the Manager, assistant, analyst and three players but we’re rumoured to be chasing another three. I don’t think it’s without its potential downside however thoroughly decent and professional the ex-Bury contingent is. What concerns me is that it will be difficult for them not to be seen as a mini clique within the club. Another two or three and half the team will be ex-Bury and it would be natural for them to stick together at the club and maybe socially – which may not be good for creating a fully bonded squad. For example if (say) Ryan Taylor is thoroughly pee’d off with the manager one day or thinks the training regime is stupid or unfair then will he feel like he can have a good old moan about them to team mates if he’s stood next to Mayor, Telford or Aimson? Will they feel like they can defend RL if he does have a moan – or feel like they are being ‘got at’ too?

There’s also the danger of imagined favouritism towards them – actually as RL and his team knows them much better it might not be entirely imagined - there could well be a subconscious bias towards them. I’m not saying it WILL be a problem – but the potential is surely there for resentments. If we’re winning then everyone is happy and it won’t be a problem at all ……but these things can rear their head when times are difficult and people are looking for something to blame.

Three is enough….. isn’t it?...or am I over-thinking it and worrying unnecessarily?

Yes, you’re right.

Why the hell did Hallett so aggressively persue one of the best young Managers around when he could have got a recycled, past his sell-by date Manager far more easily. And as for bringing that Mayor down here and some of those other promotion-winning players, what’s that all about. Pity Mayor hadn’t gone to one of the numerous other clubs who wanted him.

On the other hand, what an embarrassing OP, how small-minded and paranoid and what a great advert for the parochial Janner mentality. “Imagined favouritism”, “subconscious bias”, existing players being “got at”. Really, are you serious?

At most other clubs the fans would be thinking that the new Manager is bringing in players he knows and trusts and that they know what is required to get out of this awful Division. The easiest and quickest way for new players to settle is for them to feel comfortable in their new surroundings and to have some familiar faces around them will surely help them settle quicker. When any Manager moves these days, he almost always brings his backroom team with him; it makes perfect sense. He also tends to sign players he knows and trusts.

But what do we see, a fear that the new players will form a clique and that the Manager will treat them differently and more favourably than players already at the club. It’s probably only at Argyle where the fans would say this. I am absolutely certain that these players have come down here with the sole intention of getting Argyle promoted, but the best you can do is look at them with suspicion.

We are an ambitious, aspirational football club, hopefully entering a new and exciting period, not an infant school playground where we don’t play nicely with the new kids and we don’t make them feel welcome.

Agreed Dave but that’s the “Janner way” treat everything and everyone with suspicion.

Jannners are the most “cliquey “ people in the country. Always have been, always will be.

 

[CFG]

Of the two elements in this, the idea of us signing a number of Bury players in itself doesn’t really concern me.

The lack of players from other sources is more worrying. Lowe has been here a little while now and I think most of us anticipated more new faces than we have had. The fact that the vast majority of our signings and those we have been linked with are ex-Bury does make me wonder slightly about the strength of the contacts/ scouting network.

Only a very mild concern though at this stage.

 

[subbuteo]

I'm sitting on the fence for this one.

Thoroughly enjoyable debate thus far

Let's have another discussion after the obligatory ten games.

 

[Keith Hennessey]

Sorry if I have missed some vital points here . My question is , say Bury somehow get thro all this stuff without total destruction what are the chances of RL and his mates heading back oop north next season.
What length of contracts do we have with these people .

 

[Cobi Budge]

Why are some people inclined to automatically be skeptical about the motives of the new manager and players? Surely we should be doing all we can to make them feel welcome and to make them feel part of Argyle. Plymouth is a great place to live and for all you know, they could commit their futures to the area and club.

 

[Kentishgreen]

I don’t think we need to be too worried about the impact on the remaining players as most of them would have been fighting for their lives anyway. Let’s remember it’s mostly those who have left who got us into this mess especially when they downed tools at Accrington.

I feel sorry for Bury and their fans but let’s face it plenty of people took advantage of us when we were down. It doesn’t make it right but if it wasn’t us it would be somebody else and not all leaving Bury players have come here.

 

[Pogleswoody]

We are not and never will be a mix of Argyle players and Bury players.
Players who have left their previous club and joined us are now all Argyle players.
Players who left Bury to go elsewhere are not Bury players anymore.
Any accusations of wrongdoing, taking advantage or exploiting Bury in their time of need should be aimed at the current (and previous) owners and their administration of the club.
If they didn't come to us, they'd go elsewhere.
I feel bad for Bury fans and hope we can help their club but I lose no sleep over employing their ex coaches and ex players.
COYGs!! :scarf:

 

[gaspargomez]

No wonder Roscrow has left the club. Lowe appears doesn't appear to look much further than Bury !

Argyle now have four Bury players, with number five (Moore) rumoured to be on his way also. I think there is a growing risk of dressing room split if the balance of personalities isn't right. Hopefully Lowe knows what he is doing.

 

[Mark Pedlar]

1995-96 Neil Warnock

Kevin Blackwell - Huddersfield Town
Chris Billy - Huddersfield Town
Gary Clayton - Huddersfield Town
Richard Logan - Huddersfield Town

 

[Nobby]

Lowe is implementing a new style and our team has some obvious shortcomings, so these Bury signings make a lot of sense to ensure a smooth and quick transition.

However I think we should be looking to compliment these Bury signings with other fresh blood who can improve the squad and build a better squad than what Bury’s was. This is all very one track minded so far.