Enough already?

[HC Green]

At the moment we have signed 3 Bury players, 7 other Bury players have gone elsewhere including most of their more well known names.

 

[Mazza26]

It's more a philosophical point than a practical one for me, I want us to be really casting our net wide and getting the best possible players we can. At the moment we clearly either have tunnel vision for Bury players OR more concerning that the Bury ones are the only players of that standard that want to come (because of the manager).

I assume it's the former, which is understandable given it's Lowe's first job away from 'home' and he wants familiar faces, but surely we need to mix it up at some point.

And of course the moral point, we can't completely raid Bury like a vulture.

Lowe wants, or would certainly prefer familiar faces so his style of football can be implemented quickly. He'd probably quite like 9 or 10 of the Bury team if he could have them. It's a completely different style of football to what the Plymouth players are used to so along with trying to teach them the philosophy to then also bring in various players from different clubs is too risky and it would take a lot of time for the players to buy into it. Fans are impatient. A similar thing has happened with my local club. Kingstonian's new manager wants to play possession football, total football. He hates your typical brand of non league football. So to make his life easier he brought in 10 players from his previous club, a club that had lost out in the play offs. Not sure how Merstham fans feel, although their club isn't in Dire Straits, and also for the players it won't mean moving house or anything like that.

You can take positives and negatives from what Lowe is doing once the season gets under way. Players have moved to the other end of the country to play for him but it might be because they also need to earn a living. They might prefer to play under the same manager. A new manager and management team is a totally different challenge. That can be daunting and detrimental for the player. Then again these players have decided to relocate, and drop a division so fair play to them, but again we don't know how many players Lowe wants from Bury. If he wants 10 and we end up with 4 then is that a positive or a negative? What happened to the other 6? What about players from other clubs and you've spoken about players from abroad. I'd love the club to find wee nuggets from abroad but that's a tough ask. In our situation we need to 1) gain promotion 2) find players that we can then sell off and make a decent profit from 3) be a club that play attractive football to then attract fans to home park and players. With Adams I think we got 1.5 out of 3.

This is a unique situation. Lowe needs to make it a success because he's got a bit of an advantage here. No doubt about it and he'll know this. If someone wanted to compare this era to Sheridans, or Sturrock part 1 or Adams then i'm not sure you could. That's why IF it goes well initially i'd like to see what Lowe's plans are for the future. Season 2 and 3 would be extremely crucial for him and even more so for us. BUT he might be clever and see this as a one off season - lets get us back to league 1 and then go somewhere local, to a championship side, because on paper two successive league 2 promotions is great going. but i'm sure he's not as calculated as that as such. I'm sure he's a good man but he'll of course have ambitions and a family to feed.

It will be interesting to look back in 3 years time. You'll have posters now not bothered about the future as such. It will just be along the lines of "get the club up regardless of if it's a Bury mark II" but then they'll have a moan if Lowe and his management team start to struggle in the transfer market back in league 1. I mean look, they have contacts, i'm sure of it. They've said so. They've restructured because of this point. Mind you they've also said that Mayor is better than Carey and Lamieres. That's an astonishing thing to say. We need to remember that they've had just one full season behind them as a management group. Anyway time will tell. Good luck to everyone involved.

 

[gaspargomez]

I also think there is a risk of a Bury clique within the dressing room. If the manager brings one or two players with him I see no problem. But if it’s the entire Bury back room staff and whole bunch of first team players then it may cause divisions.

I don’t think comments like “Mayor is better than Carey and Lamerias” are very helpful either ! He also suggested that the team have under performed for 2 seasons, even though they almost reached the League One playoffs.

 

[Herts Green]

One thing that we know about Lowe is how important an excellent team spirit is to him. Whatever else happens this season, I don’t believe for a minute that he will allow cliques to develop within the squad. Personally I thought he would bring 5 or 6 with him given the situation at Bury and we’ve not done that yet. We are only talking 3 players so far from them. I’m pretty gutted that O’Shea decided to head out to Brisbane as he would have been a real asset this season.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

A good post Ave It and funnily enough I had the same conversation this morning about a Bury clique forming with someone like Gary Sawyer being marginalised in the dressing room.

On the flip side Lowe has mentioned team spirit and encouraging the players to mix socially and become friends.
Poor results on the pitch will dictate if there is a clique or not.

I'm driving from Manchester to Plymouth tonight so I'll round up any stray Bury players who need a lift.

The Green Shakers?

 

[Deacster]

I think we all feel for Bury but these players were leaving there in any case, just a matter of where they ended up. From a selfish perspective it suggests he's here for the long haul and getting 'his men' around him which is a good sign, as there was some concern we could be a stepping stone to get back up North.

In simple terms would we rather have like likes of Mayor and Telford scoring for us or against us? Whilst either or both could probably have gone to a higher level, that's the harsh reality and we need to look after Argyle.

 

[Gary Wills]

The clique risk seems valid, but it's such a shameful squad still (Truro, seriously) risks need to be taken.

None of whom Lowe's bringing in anyhow are one club players, so the attachment to Bury is likely as featherweight as the lifelong dream of playing for Plymouth Argyle in midtable L2 this season.

Hoping Byron Moore signs, I like the look of him compared to the pitiful individuals sticking around from last season's shambles.

 

[The Doctor]

A good post Ave It and funnily enough I had the same conversation this morning about a Bury clique forming with someone like Gary Sawyer being marginalised in the dressing room.

... and then minutes later Ryan Lowe confirms that Gary Sawyer remains as Club Captain!

 

[Metal Green Mickey]

The thing is if you want promotion then this is the best way possible. Your bringing in people who Lowe knows well in terms of how to play his system. It will make the transition a lot smoother.

It’s not a nice feeling at all. However, we haven’t caused it so we shouldn’t feel ashamed. If we don’t take these players, some other club will.

 

[Longwellgreen]

No issue if the players are good enough.

Also, as well as a number of Bury connections, since Lowe has arrived we have signed up numerous first year professionals, which must surely have got Lowe’s blessing, would that have happened last summer?

 

[HC Green]

No issue if the players are good enough.

Also, as well as a number of Bury connections, since Lowe has arrived we have signed up numerous first year professionals, which must surely have got Lowe’s blessing, would that have happened last summer?

Yes, as they were all offered contracts in early May, as happened last year.

 

[demportdave]

I can’t remember the last time I was looking forward to a new season as much as this one. I was delighted we got RL after all that waiting – and the signings all seem to be excellent (especially Danny Mayor which surprised us all)……….. BUT.

I do feel uncomfortable with the whole Bury thing – I just can’t help but feel it’s rather like going through a dying man’s pockets. Don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying we shouldn’t. I know full well it’s not our fault and taking some imaginary moral high ground would be ludicrous …….and the people involved all deserve to move on and certainly have no blame either – they went above and beyond during their time at Bury.

But there are other concerns that make me wonder if it’s enough now already. We’ve got the Manager, assistant, analyst and three players but we’re rumoured to be chasing another three. I don’t think it’s without its potential downside however thoroughly decent and professional the ex-Bury contingent is. What concerns me is that it will be difficult for them not to be seen as a mini clique within the club. Another two or three and half the team will be ex-Bury and it would be natural for them to stick together at the club and maybe socially – which may not be good for creating a fully bonded squad. For example if (say) Ryan Taylor is thoroughly pee’d off with the manager one day or thinks the training regime is stupid or unfair then will he feel like he can have a good old moan about them to team mates if he’s stood next to Mayor, Telford or Aimson? Will they feel like they can defend RL if he does have a moan – or feel like they are being ‘got at’ too?

There’s also the danger of imagined favouritism towards them – actually as RL and his team knows them much better it might not be entirely imagined - there could well be a subconscious bias towards them. I’m not saying it WILL be a problem – but the potential is surely there for resentments. If we’re winning then everyone is happy and it won’t be a problem at all ……but these things can rear their head when times are difficult and people are looking for something to blame.

Three is enough….. isn’t it?...or am I over-thinking it and worrying unnecessarily?

Yes, you’re right.

Why the hell did Hallett so aggressively persue one of the best young Managers around when he could have got a recycled, past his sell-by date Manager far more easily. And as for bringing that Mayor down here and some of those other promotion-winning players, what’s that all about. Pity Mayor hadn’t gone to one of the numerous other clubs who wanted him.

On the other hand, what an embarrassing OP, how small-minded and paranoid and what a great advert for the parochial Janner mentality. “Imagined favouritism”, “subconscious bias”, existing players being “got at”. Really, are you serious?

At most other clubs the fans would be thinking that the new Manager is bringing in players he knows and trusts and that they know what is required to get out of this awful Division. The easiest and quickest way for new players to settle is for them to feel comfortable in their new surroundings and to have some familiar faces around them will surely help them settle quicker. When any Manager moves these days, he almost always brings his backroom team with him; it makes perfect sense. He also tends to sign players he knows and trusts.

But what do we see, a fear that the new players will form a clique and that the Manager will treat them differently and more favourably than players already at the club. It’s probably only at Argyle where the fans would say this. I am absolutely certain that these players have come down here with the sole intention of getting Argyle promoted, but the best you can do is look at them with suspicion.

We are an ambitious, aspirational football club, hopefully entering a new and exciting period, not an infant school playground where we don’t play nicely with the new kids and we don’t make them feel welcome.

 

[Ave IT]

Oh, How I wish I was as grown-up as you Dave

 

[X Isle]

A good post Ave It and funnily enough I had the same conversation this morning about a Bury clique forming with someone like Gary Sawyer being marginalised in the dressing room.

... and then minutes later Ryan Lowe confirms that Gary Sawyer remains as Club Captain!

Indeed, go figure.

I feel the embryo of a 'PASOTI myth' forming in this thread. Baseless, highly presumptive and hypothetical. All the ingredients.

It feels like someone has put a tanker load of soppybolloxite in Burrator reservoir overnight because I didn't think I'd ever read such snowflakey nonsense as expressed today. Worrying about upsetting the players who relegated us, worrying that we might seem to be being beastly to a club who never paid their players, worrying that our manager has the audacity to want to recruit promotion winners that he knows inside out.

I mean, come on folks, have a word with yourselves and maybe stop drinking the tap water down there.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

A good post Ave It and funnily enough I had the same conversation this morning about a Bury clique forming with someone like Gary Sawyer being marginalised in the dressing room.

... and then minutes later Ryan Lowe confirms that Gary Sawyer remains as Club Captain!

If he plays, said Lowe.