Biggest without top flight football

[Isondil]

Not sure people are naive enough to think increased revenues from better hospitality, conferencing etc is the golden path to glory and untold riches. But the pragmatists will realise more revenue, if managed well, could equal more profits per season. That will naturally increase the various budgets within the club.

Every extra £208k in the playing budget per year is a £4K/wk player in the team.

 

[Mike E]

It is not just about revenue streams. It is also about the image and profile of the club that can in turn attract better players, sponsorship, corporate entertainment etc.

It is has been forced upon us by other clubs modernising, "keeping up with the Jones's" if you like, or just not being left behind.

Ever since 'the horse shoe' was built it highlighted how out of date the old grandstand had become, to the extent that over the last few years it gave off the the image that we had really hit hard times.

 

[Biggs]

Even WITHOUT the income, the difference between ‘crumbs, what a dump’ and ‘wow, that looks fantastic’ is massive to prospective and existing staff, fans, players, passers by etc etc etc.

Shanks is giving us a straw man argument by saying it won’t get us to the Premier League... no-one said that. Gives us a hell of a better chance to do ANYTHING though, and it’s quite ridiculous to say it won’t pay for itself.

I think I might start referring to the likes of Shanks and Mark Matthews as the ‘Keep Argyle Crap’ brigade, because they seem to want us to mill around the lower leagues with an ancient, urine smelling (proper football!!) terrace being further left behind by pretty much every one of our peers both on and off the pitch.

 

[crownhill pilgrim]

The new stand will certainly help us become self-sustainable. it's probably not going to finance big money signings, but will ease the burden on relying surely on match day income/pasty sales.

 

[Brixton 'ill Pilgrim]

So in one post you say I’m talking about built up areas, then you post a Wikipedia list of built up areas to prove your point...

We’re not talking about built up areas, we’re talking about towns and cities. You’ll notice in that list that Plymouth’s built up area includes... just Plymouth. Swansea and Southend’s ‘built up area’ contains completely separate towns like Rayleigh, Rockford, Neath, Port Talbot etc etc so they’re completely misleading numbers.

Plymouth itself (263,000) is bigger than Southend and Swansea (both 180,000 odd), not ‘built up areas’ including everything in a 50 mile radius :lol:

Oh and we’re definitely the biggest CLUB, almost certainly so unsuccessful because of the location.

The list of built up areas does show how much more densely populated other parts of the country are, however, and that must be a big disadvantage for Argyle. What we think of as the cities/towns of Birkenhead, Southend and Bournemouth are obviously much smaller than Plymouth... places like Southampton, Nottingham, Sunderland are about the same size. But they've all got quite big satellite towns around them adding to the catchment area of the local football team.

Argyle have the city of Plymouth (population 260k), Cornwall (550k) and most of Devon (800k excluding Plymouth and Torbay) to draw upon, meaning we must be the local league team for in excess of a million people. But spread over hundreds of miles with poor transport links it's more difficult to get a significant proportion of them to games than it is elsewhere.

It would be interesting to see an analysis of where Argyle fans come from - I would guess mainly Plymouth itself, plus the surrounding parts of South West Devon and South East Cornwall. Have the club ever done any research to this effect?

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

So in one post you say I’m talking about built up areas, then you post a Wikipedia list of built up areas to prove your point...

We’re not talking about built up areas, we’re talking about towns and cities. You’ll notice in that list that Plymouth’s built up area includes... just Plymouth. Swansea and Southend’s ‘built up area’ contains completely separate towns like Rayleigh, Rockford, Neath, Port Talbot etc etc so they’re completely misleading numbers.

Plymouth itself (263,000) is bigger than Southend and Swansea (both 180,000 odd), not ‘built up areas’ including everything in a 50 mile radius :lol:

Oh and we’re definitely the biggest CLUB, almost certainly so unsuccessful because of the location.

The list of built up areas does show how much more densely populated other parts of the country are, however, and that must be a big disadvantage for Argyle. What we think of as the cities/towns of Birkenhead, Southend and Bournemouth are obviously much smaller than Plymouth... places like Southampton, Nottingham, Sunderland are about the same size. But they've all got quite big satellite towns around them adding to the catchment area of the local football team.

Argyle have the city of Plymouth (population 260k), Cornwall (550k) and most of Devon (800k excluding Plymouth and Torbay) to draw upon, meaning we must be the local league team for in excess of a million people. But spread over hundreds of miles with poor transport links it's more difficult to get a significant proportion of them to games than it is elsewhere.

It would be interesting to see an analysis of where Argyle fans come from - I would guess mainly Plymouth itself, plus the surrounding parts of South West Devon and South East Cornwall. Have the club ever done any research to this effect?

The club should have a good idea because they take the address of virtually every ticket purchaser. Valuable information for any business and a good reason for any club to steer away from pay on the gate.

 

[Biggs]

The list of built up areas does show how much more densely populated other parts of the country are, however, and that must be a big disadvantage for Argyle. What we think of as the cities/towns of Birkenhead, Southend and Bournemouth are obviously much smaller than Plymouth... places like Southampton, Nottingham, Sunderland are about the same size. But they've all got quite big satellite towns around them adding to the catchment area of the local football team.

True, but it's swings and roundabouts because Southend have no chance with all the West Ham, Spurs, other London club fans there. Bournemouth the same thing historically with Southampton and Pompey.

We should have a captive audience, but it's been a vicious circle because there's not been that spark of success (top flight football or cup win) to ignite it all in the first place.

 

[Quintrell Green]

The list of built up areas does show how much more densely populated other parts of the country are, however, and that must be a big disadvantage for Argyle. What we think of as the cities/towns of Birkenhead, Southend and Bournemouth are obviously much smaller than Plymouth... places like Southampton, Nottingham, Sunderland are about the same size. But they've all got quite big satellite towns around them adding to the catchment area of the local football team.

True, but it's swings and roundabouts because Southend have no chance with all the West Ham, Spurs, other London club fans there. Bournemouth the same thing historically with Southampton and Pompey.

We should have a captive audience, but it's been a vicious circle because there's not been that spark of success (top flight football or cup win) to ignite it all in the first place.

We have had ignition in the past [Houston] like 1984 but the fuel is burnt up quickly, I fear

 

[Presto]

Strikes me the thread is pretty pointless. Size ( as the Mrs points out) is irrelevant. Produce good football and you will attract fans. Attract wealthy investors and they will fund the transfer pot. Put the two together and you climb the tables. Get into the premier league and you can look down at those below you.

Totally pointless worrying about city size or how to define it. As much as it hurts me we are an also ran football club who have won nothing of note other than the odd promotion. Even if Plymouth had a population of a million we would still be league 1 or 2 with an occasional flirt with the Championship. No cash injection and a substantial one at that will condemn us to also ran status. On the plus side the occasional success gives greater pleasure than that the plastic supporters of the cash rich teams can ever appreciate.

 

[buck197]

Surely our realistic hope to get into the top flight is firstly to get a team in the championship ( I realise Div. 2 is looking more likely) allied with our completed stadium that could attract a wealthy investor. They could then bankroll us to getting a team into the top end of the championship and eventually promotion. Bournemouth managed it ( Blackpool did a few years previously) and we will have better facilities and capacity than them next year. I live in hope

 

[IJN]

Seems entirely logical to me.

 

[Presto]

James Brent endeavoured to identify potential major acceptable investors without success. I truly believe our location is a major stumbling block. We have no airport, a railway system which is unfit for purpose and 45min drive to the nearest motorway which is a nightmare in the summer. No government of any colour will address these issues because in the flawed electoral system we are saddled with there is no incentive to do anything. The South east, Midlands and the North have loads of parliamentary seats and therefore get investment we have very few so the brainless tw-ts who sit in parliament could not careless.

 

[Shankster]

James Brent endeavoured to identify potential major acceptable investors without success. I truly believe our location is a major stumbling block. We have no airport, a railway system which is unfit for purpose and 45min drive to the nearest motorway which is a nightmare in the summer. No government of any colour will address these issues because in the flawed electoral system we are saddled with there is no incentive to do anything. The South east, Midlands and the North have loads of parliamentary seats and therefore get investment we have very few so the brainless tw-ts who sit in parliament could not careless.

Selma reasonable

 

[r4h4al]

I always thought since Hull won promotion in 2008 that we became the biggest club but that must've been an urban myth.

 

[Presto]

Ah define big.