Is Derek the right manager?

[Balham Green]

We are too cowardly even to get rid of a failing manager!

Give it a rest. Very often, the brave thing to do is stick with a manager. Getting rid at the first crisis is the easy option.

Play-off final > promotion isn't failing. And if your definition of failing is a string of defeats, then most clubs would have several managers a season. You don't think turning that round to sit on a 5 game unbeaten run is worthy of any praise at all?

Give it a rest! Do you think we would have got promoted last season or be unbeaten in 5 without ONE player in particular?

ONE player the manager signed, then convinced to stay when much better footballing sides came in for him.

ONE player we pay a lot of money to have relative to his colleagues.

What is the alternative to Carey scoring goals and making some chances, for him to go on strike or something? To run the ball down the touchline and out of play and just deliberately not contribute anything? What a strange feeling it must be to watch Argyle with the attitude and prejudice you have, cursing under your breath every time Carey whacks in another goal from distance, feeling like he is somehow cheating you and Argyle deep down are really much more pathetic than this. How strange.

So you reckon signing ONE player makes him a decent manager do you? You are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion you are deluded. And how you draw the other conclusions regarding Carey I have no idea. Utter and complete nonsense which as a result discredits your other opinions. You continue living in your make believe world though.

 

[Balham Green]

We are too cowardly even to get rid of a failing manager!

Give it a rest. Very often, the brave thing to do is stick with a manager. Getting rid at the first crisis is the easy option.

Play-off final > promotion isn't failing. And if your definition of failing is a string of defeats, then most clubs would have several managers a season. You don't think turning that round to sit on a 5 game unbeaten run is worthy of any praise at all?

Give it a rest! Do you think we would have got promoted last season or be unbeaten in 5 without ONE player in particular?

Bit like saying Leicester would never have won the premier league without Vardy or Brazil 3 world cups without Pele or Argyle without Mariner in 1974/75 etc etc etc.

My point is we went up because of Carey not because of any great genius from the manager.

 

[Knarf Reprah]

First time I've ever agreed with BG

 

[Knibbsworth]

So you reckon signing ONE player makes him a decent manager do you? You are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion you are deluded. And how you draw the other conclusions regarding Carey I have no idea. Utter and complete nonsense which as a result discredits your other opinions. You continue living in your make believe world though.

And the managers of the other clubs Derek Adams is competing with have no other good players of their own then? That's ridiculous. How about Marquis, Akinde, Hylton, Godden and Bogle from last season? In League One there are more than a few decent players who can dribble and stick it in the top corner - Wigan have Nick Powell and he played for Manchester United. You say Derek Adams has only one good player, that puts him up against it when the opposition usually have at least a couple. Eoin Doyle has already scored 11 goals for Oldham in 14 games and he missed August.

Argyle were the fourth highest scorers in the division last season. DA's team had the third best defence by goals conceded. Graham Carey did not achieve ALL of the above by himself. In any case our record without Carey has always been competitive, we hardly fall to pieces when he's unavailable.

 

[Biggs]

So you reckon signing ONE player makes him a decent manager do you? You are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion you are deluded. And how you draw the other conclusions regarding Carey I have no idea. Utter and complete nonsense which as a result discredits your other opinions. You continue living in your make believe world though.

You're absolutely right, BG. Football is incredibly easy, any mug can take over a club like Plymouth Argyle in League Two and should be able to knock up at least 100 points.

That is the make-believe world you operate in. The reality is that a League 2 season is a HARD slog, and to finish joint top of it you need to have a bit of everything about you. You need togetherness, tactical astuteness, suitable signings, solidity all through the team, luck... and yes, a bit of magic from someone when you need it. Whether you think DA is right for Argyle long term or not, to question whether he isn't even a 'decent manager' is misguided, given his career so far.

You seem completely and utterly ignorant of all of those things, and I'm not sure where this 'ONE player' mantra is coming from when DA also signed player of the year Sonny Bradley, second top scorer Jake Jervis, vice captain Gary Sawyer, Songo'o, Fox, Threlkeld etc etc.

Your position is the default one for idiotic football fans everywhere. That is, that all the good things are despite the manager, and all the bad things are because of the manager. In your world, if we get rid of DA we'll magically keep all the positive elements of his management and carry on signing Graham Careys, but also suddenly start dominating teams and winning 3-0 and 4-0.

It doesn't work like that I'm afraid, and if/when Adams is replaced you'll be moaning about the next incumbent just as much.

 

[Balham Green]

So you reckon signing ONE player makes him a decent manager do you? You are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion you are deluded. And how you draw the other conclusions regarding Carey I have no idea. Utter and complete nonsense which as a result discredits your other opinions. You continue living in your make believe world though.

And the managers of the other clubs Derek Adams is competing with have no other good players of their own then? That's ridiculous. How about Marquis, Akinde, Hylton, Godden and Bogle from last season? In League One there are more than a few decent players who can dribble and stick it in the top corner - Wigan have Nick Powell and he played for Manchester United. You say Derek Adams has only one good player, that puts him up against it when the opposition usually have at least a couple. Eoin Doyle has already scored 11 goals for Oldham in 14 games and he missed August.

Argyle were the fourth highest scorers in the division last season. DA's team had the third best defence by goals conceded. Graham Carey did not achieve ALL of the above by himself. In any case our record without Carey has always been competitive, we hardly fall to pieces when he's unavailable.

My point is we rely on one player more than most especially creatively. Most of the others are ordinary.We would not have gone up without Carey and therefore my point about Adams remains irrespective of whether other teams also rely on one player or not.

 

[Balham Green]

So you reckon signing ONE player makes him a decent manager do you? You are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion you are deluded. And how you draw the other conclusions regarding Carey I have no idea. Utter and complete nonsense which as a result discredits your other opinions. You continue living in your make believe world though.

You're absolutely right, BG. Football is incredibly easy, any mug can take over a club like Plymouth Argyle in League Two and should be able to knock up at least 100 points.

That is the make-believe world you operate in. The reality is that a League 2 season is a HARD slog, and to finish joint top of it you need to have a bit of everything about you. You need togetherness, tactical astuteness, suitable signings, solidity all through the team, luck... and yes, a bit of magic from someone when you need it. Whether you think DA is right for Argyle long term or not, to question whether he isn't even a 'decent manager' is misguided, given his career so far.

You seem completely and utterly ignorant of all of those things, and I'm not sure where this 'ONE player' mantra is coming from when DA also signed player of the year Sonny Bradley, second top scorer Jake Jervis, vice captain Gary Sawyer, Songo'o, Fox, Threlkeld etc etc.

Your position is the default one for idiotic football fans everywhere. That is, that all the good things are despite the manager, and all the bad things are because of the manager. In your world, if we get rid of DA we'll magically keep all the positive elements of his management and carry on signing Graham Careys, but also suddenly start dominating teams and winning 3-0 and 4-0.

It doesn't work like that I'm afraid, and if/when Adams is replaced you'll be moaning about the next incumbent just as much.

I wish I knew as much about football as you. :funny: you talk about 'togetherness, tactical astuteness(didnt see much of that), suitable signings( a fair few duff ones) and solidity'. Plenty of Sunday league managers can achieve that. So tell me something new oh wise one.
If somebody disagrees with you they are 'idiotic'. :facepalm: I can turn your point on its head. All the bad things are nothing to do with the manager and all the good things(few as they are) are! We could argue for days but you would never convince me you weren't clueless, or that we would have gone up without Carey. I guess you are incapable of seeing the paucity of our performances and haven't looked at the League table since August. Dream on oh deluded one.

 

[Biggs]

So you reckon signing ONE player makes him a decent manager do you? You are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion you are deluded. And how you draw the other conclusions regarding Carey I have no idea. Utter and complete nonsense which as a result discredits your other opinions. You continue living in your make believe world though.

And the managers of the other clubs Derek Adams is competing with have no other good players of their own then? That's ridiculous. How about Marquis, Akinde, Hylton, Godden and Bogle from last season? In League One there are more than a few decent players who can dribble and stick it in the top corner - Wigan have Nick Powell and he played for Manchester United. You say Derek Adams has only one good player, that puts him up against it when the opposition usually have at least a couple. Eoin Doyle has already scored 11 goals for Oldham in 14 games and he missed August.

Argyle were the fourth highest scorers in the division last season. DA's team had the third best defence by goals conceded. Graham Carey did not achieve ALL of the above by himself. In any case our record without Carey has always been competitive, we hardly fall to pieces when he's unavailable.

My point is we rely on one player more than most especially creatively. Most of the others are ordinary.We would not have gone up without Carey and therefore my point about Adams remains irrespective of whether other teams also rely on one player or not.

It doesn't make any sense, though. Adams realised Carey was good enough to build a team around, played him in the correct position, and got the most out of him. And signed him in the first place! And it worked, so what is the criticism exactly?

If we hadn't had Carey, then we'd have had another way of playing. Unless you can see into alternate dimensions?

I do appreciate what you're trying to say, but to absolve Adams of any credit whatsoever has no balance as an argument.

To bring some balance to my argument, it's fairly clear that this summer's transfer dealings were poor. But now seems the wrong time to be slating the manager as we appear to have turned it round and sit on a five-game unbeaten run. Surely he deserves some credit for that.

 

[999mattyg]

So you reckon signing ONE player makes him a decent manager do you? You are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion you are deluded. And how you draw the other conclusions regarding Carey I have no idea. Utter and complete nonsense which as a result discredits your other opinions. You continue living in your make believe world though.

And the managers of the other clubs Derek Adams is competing with have no other good players of their own then? That's ridiculous. How about Marquis, Akinde, Hylton, Godden and Bogle from last season? In League One there are more than a few decent players who can dribble and stick it in the top corner - Wigan have Nick Powell and he played for Manchester United. You say Derek Adams has only one good player, that puts him up against it when the opposition usually have at least a couple. Eoin Doyle has already scored 11 goals for Oldham in 14 games and he missed August.

Argyle were the fourth highest scorers in the division last season. DA's team had the third best defence by goals conceded. Graham Carey did not achieve ALL of the above by himself. In any case our record without Carey has always been competitive, we hardly fall to pieces when he's unavailable.

My point is we rely on one player more than most especially creatively. Most of the others are ordinary.We would not have gone up without Carey and therefore my point about Adams remains irrespective of whether other teams also rely on one player or not.

With your powers of clairvoyance I hope you had a bet on!
So the other squad members played no part in the promotion!
What a ridiculous statement to make!
If we didn't have GC10 (signed and retained by DA) we would have had another player, clearly, so who is to say that we would or wouldn't have been promoted!!

 

[Frank Butcher]

The wonder of words. BG has made two subtly different statements here:

"My point is we went up because of Carey not because of any great genius from the manager."

and

"We would not have gone up without Carey."

I think the first is utter rubbish and the second is absolutely true.

 

[Biggs]

The wonder of words. BG has made two subtly different statements here:

"My point is we went up because of Carey not because of any great genius from the manager."

and

"We would not have gone up without Carey."

I think the first is utter rubbish and the second is absolutely true.

Probably. But I think the point some of us are making, is that if Carey wasn't there (and again, Adams did sign him!) then it's not as if we just wouldn't have had an attacking midfielder.

He was specifically signed to perform the role he does. If we hadn't got him, we would have either got someone else or played a completely different way, and could well have still gone up.

Any claims to the contrary are pure conjecture.

 

[lyndhurst green]

We are off topic a bit here. I would just add that GC10 contributed, either by scoring or assisting, to over half our goals last season.

 

[Biggs]

We are off topic a bit here. I would just add that GC10 contributed, either by scoring or assisting, to over half our goals last season.

Absolutely. And that surely should be a cause for celebration! You have to have one hell of a glass-half-empty outlook to take it the other way and use it as a stick to beat the manager with.

1) Adams signed him, 2) Adams got the best out of him, and 3) if we hadn't signed Carey, no-one here knows whether or not we'd have signed someone just as good.

 

[Knibbsworth]

So you reckon signing ONE player makes him a decent manager do you? You are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion you are deluded. And how you draw the other conclusions regarding Carey I have no idea. Utter and complete nonsense which as a result discredits your other opinions. You continue living in your make believe world though.

And the managers of the other clubs Derek Adams is competing with have no other good players of their own then? That's ridiculous. How about Marquis, Akinde, Hylton, Godden and Bogle from last season? In League One there are more than a few decent players who can dribble and stick it in the top corner - Wigan have Nick Powell and he played for Manchester United. You say Derek Adams has only one good player, that puts him up against it when the opposition usually have at least a couple. Eoin Doyle has already scored 11 goals for Oldham in 14 games and he missed August.

Argyle were the fourth highest scorers in the division last season. DA's team had the third best defence by goals conceded. Graham Carey did not achieve ALL of the above by himself. In any case our record without Carey has always been competitive, we hardly fall to pieces when he's unavailable.

My point is we rely on one player more than most especially creatively. Most of the others are ordinary.We would not have gone up without Carey and therefore my point about Adams remains irrespective of whether other teams also rely on one player or not.

It doesn't make any sense, though. Adams realised Carey was good enough to build a team around, played him in the correct position, and got the most out of him. And signed him in the first place! And it worked, so what is the criticism exactly?

If we hadn't had Carey, then we'd have had another way of playing. Unless you can see into alternate dimensions?

I do appreciate what you're trying to say, but to absolve Adams of any credit whatsoever has no balance as an argument.

To bring some balance to my argument, it's fairly clear that this summer's transfer dealings were poor. But now seems the wrong time to be slating the manager as we appear to have turned it round and sit on a five-game unbeaten run. Surely he deserves some credit for that.

Great post. Carey is such an obviously outstanding player that he was played at LB for Celtic reserves. He scored 15 goals in over 160 appearances at various lower league clubs, never more than 4 goals a season before Argyle.

Finding and building a team around Carey was a total no brainer and Adams deserves no credit in helping develop one of the best creative players in the lower leagues.

 

[Knibbsworth]

We are off topic a bit here. I would just add that GC10 contributed, either by scoring or assisting, to over half our goals last season.

Absolutely. And that surely should be a cause for celebration! You have to have one hell of a glass-half-empty outlook to take it the other way and use it as a stick to beat the manager with.

1) Adams signed him, 2) Adams got the best out of him, and 3) if we hadn't signed Carey, no-one here knows whether or not we'd have signed someone just as good.

I wonder if on the Doncaster forums they moan that John Marquis is involved in too many goals? He is involved in too many attacks, makes too many good chances for others, keeps finishing club/division top scorer, Darren Ferguson OUT!

It is quite bizarre to attack the manager and question his job for developing a player so well that he is the envy of the division and is a joy for supporters to watch.