Development players released

[jimsing]

If any of these young footballers make it into a division equal to or higher than Argyle, then we will have lost out on their talent. If none of them get that far in their careers then it would appear that the correct decision will have been made by the Club.

We will have to wait and see.

 

[jerryatricjanner]

If any of these young footballers make it into a division equal to or higher than Argyle, then we will have lost out on their talent. If none of them get that far in their careers then it would appear that the correct decision will have been made by the Club.

We will have to wait and see.

Indeed- History would show it is extremely rare and I go back 52 years watching Argyle.

 

[MarkMatthews]

If any of these young footballers make it into a division equal to or higher than Argyle, then we will have lost out on their talent. If none of them get that far in their careers then it would appear that the correct decision will have been made by the Club.

We will have to wait and see.

I really don't think its as simple as that. If your released from a fourth division club, your are unlikely to get any offer from any one in the same division or higher, 18/19 year olds from Plymouth I don't expect are going to have too many contacts in professional football outside of Argyle. Its noticeable, how many in recent years either end up at Truro or at whatever club Gary Owers is at.

You end up at any club below conference or even at half the clubs in it, you have to get a proper job, you not going to able to put the hours in as a pro. When you do train its after putting 8 hours graft on a building site. The coaching and facilities at your disposal won't be as good, even diet plans become harder to follow. Factor in what being released could do to knock your confidence. Then there is human temptations booze, drugs, stuff they missed out on in their mid teens they might try and make up for lost time on and before you know it its a slippery slope. Yes it is possible to bounce back and yes you have to make all the right choices to do it but the odds are massively stacked against you.

Their potential remains unlocked. That's not to say if they hadn't been released given the right opportunities, encouragement at a professional club they wouldn't have made it.

As for anyone who turns down a contract offer of any sort the club can make it difficult for them to sign above a certain level.

If we rise through the leagues again we will release worse players than the ones I listed in my previous post, from our academy but they will end up at League clubs. League 2 fans won't be turning up their noses at a player released from a championship club. Even though there is very little relevance to where the club and academy are to. If their is its an historical correlation, i.e. those coming through the last couple of years who joined at nine joined us when we were second flight, we could easily sign the best in the region back then. Now? I expect 9/10 years down the line what we have coming through will be nowhere near as good as Exeter and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few Plymothians come through their set up.

 

[Green Army 2000]

For those who view this regularly, where do they see the pit-falls?

We have always been competitive with teams at an U18 level against clubs who do make pros of their players and often destroy them.

Second point, if they aren't great facilities we doing fine at an U18 level in spite of that.


Didn't we recently beat Bristol Rovers 2-0 to move off the bottom of the table and were outclassed 4-1 at Luton on Wednesday

Wouldn't say we were competitive at U18

 

[Green Army 2000]

I
expect 9/10 years down the line what we have coming through will be nowhere near as good as Exeter and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few Plymothians come through their set up.

Re my earlier post - there are reasons why Exeter are turning out better players and it will be self generating - the better players in the region will know it is the place to be and want to go there over Argyle so they will continue to produce better players

Our academy is stuck in the 1970s

It needs a massive change of direction and proper funding

 

[MarkMatthews]

For those who view this regularly, where do they see the pit-falls?

We have always been competitive with teams at an U18 level against clubs who do make pros of their players and often destroy them.

Second point, if they aren't great facilities we doing fine at an U18 level in spite of that.


Didn't we recently beat Bristol Rovers 2-0 to move off the bottom of the table and were outclassed 4-1 at Luton on Wednesday

Wouldn't say we were competitive at U18

In the merit league which we had to qualify for in the first place by finishing at least a certain place in the previous youth league. Turned over at Luton hardly surprising when its Alex Fletcher and a load of 15 year old school boys is it?! Good job it was Easter holidays. All our second years (bar Fletcher) and most of our first years were in Saltash that day! Fletch is class but he is not Beckenbauer, Best and Pele all rolled into one!

That Merit league is close everyone seemed to be beating everyone, we had games in hand so ours was a bit of a false position being bottom. We won the Merit League in 2014/15. IIRC last season we won the previous league to qualify for the Merit League. That covers the Harvey/Steer/Calver/Palfrey 2 year apprenticeship period. They won back to back Devon Bowls (knocking out Exeter along the way last season) So I would say we have been competitive.

I heard Gillingham have already handed out 4 or 5 pro contracts to members of the team who needed penalties to knock us out of the FA youth cup in what was an highly competitive game which on another day could have (indeed very nearly did go,) our way.

This years second years haven't won as much as they should have because they've been stretched U18 fixtures often on same days as SWPL games so its a balancing act meaning often neither fixture has the strongest team possible.

 

[MarkMatthews]

I
expect 9/10 years down the line what we have coming through will be nowhere near as good as Exeter and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few Plymothians come through their set up.

Re my earlier post - there are reasons why Exeter are turning out better players and it will be self generating - the better players in the region will know it is the place to be and want to go there over Argyle so they will continue to produce better players

Our academy is stuck in the 1970s

It needs a massive change of direction and proper funding

Its a valid point I have expressed previously and echoed your sentiment on this thread.

I'm very careful in not wishing an ounce of blame on Kevin Hodges or John James et al. I think they do an extremely good job and believe their hearts and principles are in line with my own. I think Kevin has a thankless task. He is caught in the cross fire. I understand why some parents might be of the point of view, who understandably cant help but look out for their sons own interest first and foremost, I understand their cries of their son maybe being overlooked for someone else. I understand the fans who only scratch the surface and think him to blame for the lack of youth coming through. I understand any young player struggling to break through maybe questioning what more he could try and do.

I understand, from first hand experience how hard it is working somewhere where your father is "management" and you a "worker" and I've also worked at other organisations with sons of management. Once everyone knows your, your-own man it gets easier. You are always conscious of what others might be thinking. I was lucky the lads where I worked were won around pretty quickly and I hope the lads at Argyle doing apprenticeships recognise, Harry is there on merit and is his own man. We as fans have a responsibility to not single out looking how is doing either just because of his name, let him make his own name. Whilst it would have been preferable for both Kevin and Harry to be at different clubs, can you imagine the PR if Harry had gone to another club?!

Whilst the academy could always do with more funding and we will start to see the consequences of that in the coming years, it is not currently an excuse they can use for me. The players are coming through in significant quality at least up to and including this seasons first years. There is no one I would rather have installing the ethos of this club into young players than Kevin Hodges. It is my believe there is no one who is a bigger defender of us trying to keep the set up as local as possible. For me it would be a travesty if we just started trying to bring through 15 year olds we get from being released from Championship/Prem clubs. The academy needs to benefit our communities in the South West before anywhere else.

I agree long term, even as an ardent fan of PAFC, if I had a lad between 9-15 I would be trying to get them in Exeter's set up. Nothing to do with the academy or the personnel within it, just because of the two clubs contrasting attitudes post 18.

 

[davie nine]

I think your last few words should refer to 'the two clubs' contrasting ambitions/aspirations' rather than 'attitudes', Mark.

Incidentally, who, from the Exeter Academy, was competing with Alex Fletcher for LFE (League Football Education) Apprentice of the Year for League 2?

 

[sidelines1]

For those who view this regularly, where do they see the pit-falls?

We have always been competitive with teams at an U18 level against clubs who do make pros of their players and often destroy them.

Second point, if they aren't great facilities we doing fine at an U18 level in spite of that.


Didn't we recently beat Bristol Rovers 2-0 to move off the bottom of the table and were outclassed 4-1 at Luton on Wednesday

Wouldn't say we were competitive at U18

the correct score was 5,,1 and the team consisted of 1 second year apprentice 3 1st years and 6 under 16s, not one of our strongest sides id say,..

 

[sidelines1]

I think your last few words should refer to 'the two clubs' contrasting ambitions/aspirations' rather than 'attitudes', Mark.

Incidentally, who, from the Exeter Academy, was competing with Alex Fletcher for LFE (League Football Education) Apprentice of the Year for League 2?

no one from exeter was in the line up with alex fletcher ,,

 

[Mike E]

In my humble opinion Argyle should either, as mentioned on here earlier, scrap the academy and follow the Brentford model, or preferably, as also mentioned on here, team up with a non league club in the Somerset/ Dorset area to build or aim to build a category one academy ( radical thinking but even a joint facility with a club like Yeovil who are never going to be able to do it alone) so as to gain access to the rest of the country. We are all aware of Argyles location problem, massive potential fan base, but massive recruitment problem. So we need tap into the local youth who also need to see that if they are to dedicate themselves to trying to carve out a career in football it is not just Argyle or nothing. Obviously those from Cornwall would find it difficult but this can be addressed.

 

[sidelines1]

does any one have any news on second year apprentices ????????????????????????????????????????? :shock: ie released or contracts ??

 

[MarkMatthews]

does any one have any news on second year apprentices ????????????????????????????????????????? :shock: ie released or contracts ??

They will surely have to let them know before exit trails?! Which I believe are less than a fortnight away. When you look how the ground lies, we now know what division we will be in next season, exit trails coming up, Game at Home Park early afternoon (Not Tavistock) I wouldn't be surprised if they find out tomorrow afternoon, if its like the pro-dev lads we will find out tomorrow as well.

Like I said, it surely it will be done in the next week or so. Hopefully one or two will get some first-team game time in the games between now and the end of the season.

 

[Green83]

I don't suppose they will until we definitely know we can't be Champions. Expect a brief foray in the last match of the season.

 

[Green Army 2000]

I
expect 9/10 years down the line what we have coming through will be nowhere near as good as Exeter and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few Plymothians come through their set up.

I'm very careful in not wishing an ounce of blame on Kevin Hodges or John James et al.

I hope the lads at Argyle doing apprenticeships recognise, Harry is there on merit and is his own man. We as fans have a responsibility to not single out looking how is doing either just because of his name, let him make his own name. Whilst it would have been preferable for both Kevin and Harry to be at different clubs, can you imagine the PR if Harry had gone to another club?!

I agree long term, even as an ardent fan of PAFC, if I had a lad between 9-15 I would be trying to get them in Exeter's set up. Nothing to do with the academy or the personnel within it, just because of the two clubs contrasting attitudes post 18.

My brothers mate has just been taken on as an apprentice by Exeter and I know the family of a current Argyle U15 academy player. Talking to them the difference between the academies is vast. Exeter do loads of video analysis, classroom sessions before and after games, tactical sessions in the classroom where every players role in various systems is explained etc etc ... We don't.

Ethan Ampidou who played for Wales U17 as an U15 and has first team appearances this season as a 15 year old has just singed for them. Apparently Arsenal Man Utd and Chelsea are interested and his dad is part of the Arsenal youth set up as a coach. Do you think his dad would let him stay at Exeter if he didn't think their set up was spot on???? The fact Ethans dad thinks Exeter is the best place for him says it all.

I would ask you a simple question Mark, Do you think the four development players just released by Argyle would have been better players had they been through the Exeter system since U12?????

The answer is clearly yes and I totally disagree with your last statement above. Although the contrasting attitudes post 18 is correct, it is exactly the personnel and training methods and techniques from U8 to u18 which is why Exeter are producing better players. They do not suddenly get to U18 and drop off - it is the work that goes in from an early age.

I have no doubt Kevin Hodges is very hard working and a dedicated employee. He was undoubtedly one of our greatest ever players. He was also undoubtedly manager of one of our worst ever teams.........

We all appear to be agreeing that our academy needs massive improvement, then why do you not attach one ounce of blame to Kevin??? He is the Academy Manager - so who else is responsible???? This and your defence of Harry Hodges does make me wonder if you are actually Harrys mum!!!

I do not understand where the sudden reference to Harry has come from because no one has mentioned him on this thread. He is in a very difficult position and you quite rightly say there would be uproar if he made it at another club. Until he is offered a pro contract there will be questions from certain people because his dad is the one who says who does or does not make it as an apprentice. I've heard he is a lovely lad and that Kevin is particularly harsh on him in front of the other lads. I wish him luck and hope he does become as good a player for us as his dad was.