AFT statement on HHP development and **new update 19th Sept*

[CADMAN]

Without doubt.

The Club won't sell discounted tickets to a 'rival' if it means they lose out. They will sell a full price one if some herbert of a business wants to take a punt on selling it on a a loss in the hope someone wants it with their chicken in a basket lunch.

Again, at the very least, the Club has gained an entrance fee.

What if the rival is owned by the same person that owns the football club?

 

[Ade the green]

Without doubt.

The Club won't sell discounted tickets to a 'rival' if it means they lose out. They will sell a full price one if some herbert of a business wants to take a punt on selling it on a a loss in the hope someone wants it with their chicken in a basket lunch.

Again, at the very least, the Club has gained an entrance fee.

What if the rival is owned by the same person that owns the football club?

Are you insane?

 

[NorfolkGreen]

What I am certain about is that people should be able to question the proposals and offer an opinion without being abused, labelled or insulted.

That works both ways, those that support the development should also be able to offer an opinion without being abused, labelled or insulted, on the forums that you may use.

About that there is no dispute.

I also haven't said I have been abused, but it happens to others and is distasteful.

 

[Knibbsworth]

I know it's a lot of pages but have you been keeping up?

The grandstand refurb on its own will not generate the income levels that the club are looking for. It will look prettier and tidier than it is now but that isn't what the whole idea of the refurb is about.

Have you not been keeping up? Anything outside the grandstand refurb won't generate any money at all for Argyle.....oh, sorry, forgot the unbudgetable twelfth of never payment due under the 50% windfall arrangement.

So, actually, the benefit to PAFC is 100% about the refurb. The potential revenue to Argyle will be from the increased capacity, conference facilities, supporters bar etc....all of which are internal to the refurb and nothing to do with HHP....oh, and entirely funded, straightforward and not at all reliant on the superfluous stuff within HHP.

LC made the point earlier in the thread very well hence the "have you been keeping up" comment.

You don't have to own or have a stake in a development to benefit from it especially in an entertainment industry like football.

You don't need to own the hotel to benefit from business travellers using your conference facility or additional away fans staying on site.

You don't need to own the retail outlet housing Nando's to benefit from the local young people eating there before watching a game of football.

You don't have to own the ice rink keeping kids entertained in the morning before their parents take them across the road to the footy.

You don't need to own the office blocks creating employment in the vicinity of Home Park to benefit from greater disposable incomes or additional working people with money to burn at the weekend.

HHP will become a leisure complex as a result of these plans. It's far too simplistic to consider just the direct benefits this will bring Argyle, thankfully JB and the club have the bigger picture in their thinking.

Right, so a family go out for a day at the ice rink, then decide to spend about £65 on football tickets seeing as they are down Outland Road way? I highly doubt that. HHP does not stand to benefit PAFC one bit.

Now this is a highly divisive issue - are there any moderators on Pasoti who think HHP is a bad deal for the club? I find it strange that all the mods seem united on this extremely divisive issue.

 

[CADMAN]

Without doubt.

The Club won't sell discounted tickets to a 'rival' if it means they lose out. They will sell a full price one if some herbert of a business wants to take a punt on selling it on a a loss in the hope someone wants it with their chicken in a basket lunch.

Again, at the very least, the Club has gained an entrance fee.

What if the rival is owned by the same person that owns the football club?

Are you insane?

No just easily offended.

 

[Guiri Green]

Without doubt.

The Club won't sell discounted tickets to a 'rival' if it means they lose out. They will sell a full price one if some herbert of a business wants to take a punt on selling it on a a loss in the hope someone wants it with their chicken in a basket lunch.

Again, at the very least, the Club has gained an entrance fee.

What if the rival is owned by the same person that owns the football club?

Then everyone's a winner.

 

[SWTT]

Even though it saves PAFC about £200k?

I'm not saying for one minutes it's 100% altruistic, but symbiosis is a wonderful thing.

Really? 200k on a planning application to renovate a Grandstand, I'd be amazed if that were true.

Agreed, I would say Ian's estimate is on the low side as well.

Not sure it would be quite that high but it would certainly be six figures.

There's some figures on the initial covering letter within the planning documents that suggest the application is around £8-9,000 I think, going off memory. I've not seen it communicated anywhere other than IJN that Akkeron are covering all of the non building costs?

Regardless £200,000 (I hate talking about these figures as personally I'd love £20, let alone 10,000 times that) is paltry when compared to £10 million. Is the development on the HHP site 50 times smaller than the 2013 plans?

 

[CADMAN]

Without doubt.

The Club won't sell discounted tickets to a 'rival' if it means they lose out. They will sell a full price one if some herbert of a business wants to take a punt on selling it on a a loss in the hope someone wants it with their chicken in a basket lunch.

Again, at the very least, the Club has gained an entrance fee.

What if the rival is owned by the same person that owns the football club?

Then everyone's a winner.

So when there is more competion, everyone wins?

 

[Ollieargyle9]

I know it's a lot of pages but have you been keeping up?

The grandstand refurb on its own will not generate the income levels that the club are looking for. It will look prettier and tidier than it is now but that isn't what the whole idea of the refurb is about.

Have you not been keeping up? Anything outside the grandstand refurb won't generate any money at all for Argyle.....oh, sorry, forgot the unbudgetable twelfth of never payment due under the 50% windfall arrangement.

So, actually, the benefit to PAFC is 100% about the refurb. The potential revenue to Argyle will be from the increased capacity, conference facilities, supporters bar etc....all of which are internal to the refurb and nothing to do with HHP....oh, and entirely funded, straightforward and not at all reliant on the superfluous stuff within HHP.

LC made the point earlier in the thread very well hence the "have you been keeping up" comment.

You don't have to own or have a stake in a development to benefit from it especially in an entertainment industry like football.

You don't need to own the hotel to benefit from business travellers using your conference facility or additional away fans staying on site.

You don't need to own the retail outlet housing Nando's to benefit from the local young people eating there before watching a game of football.

You don't have to own the ice rink keeping kids entertained in the morning before their parents take them across the road to the footy.

You don't need to own the office blocks creating employment in the vicinity of Home Park to benefit from greater disposable incomes or additional working people with money to burn at the weekend.

HHP will become a leisure complex as a result of these plans. It's far too simplistic to consider just the direct benefits this will bring Argyle, thankfully JB and the club have the bigger picture in their thinking.

Right, so a family go out for a day at the ice rink, then decide to spend about £65 on football tickets seeing as they are down Outland Road way? I highly doubt that. HHP does not stand to benefit PAFC one bit.

Now this is a highly divisive issue - are there any moderators on Pasoti who think HHP is a bad deal for the club? I find it strange that all the mods seem united on this extremely divisive issue.

I have no idea, I haven't discussed it with any of the other mods. Some have offered their views on this thread as individuals others haven't.

In response to your point, is it really that ludicrous an idea? On deciding what to do on a Saturday a £65 day out at a 2 hour football match is comparably worse than days out that keep the kids entertained all-day even if priced the same. No you wouldn't just take your kids to Argyle on a whim, you'd make a conscious decision to take them to a sports park that offered skating, swimming, football and good food outlets that offered more choice than a pasty or burger from a van.

 

[Daz]

Without doubt.

The Club won't sell discounted tickets to a 'rival' if it means they lose out. They will sell a full price one if some herbert of a business wants to take a punt on selling it on a a loss in the hope someone wants it with their chicken in a basket lunch.

Again, at the very least, the Club has gained an entrance fee.

What if the rival is owned by the same person that owns the football club?

Then everyone's a winner.

So when there is more competion, everyone wins?

You are aware that's why shopping malls exist right?

 

[gaspargomez]

Although very interesting these comments are very academic since at the end of the day it is the council that will decide on this no matter what we think. The date for submitting comments to the council is now closed. The council received 109 comments on this proposal. Ther were 41 objections and 60 supporting comments. The remainder are regarded as neutral. The council's determination deadline is 21 November so I suggest everyone cools off for a while and we get back to talking about football

A sensible post at last.

 

[CADMAN]

Let me make it clearer. As a lifelong Argyle fan I want every penny spent on HHP land to go directly in to the wellbeing of my football club. And let's not go down the road of the football club no longer owns the land please. We don't need to go over that again.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

I know it's a lot of pages but have you been keeping up?

The grandstand refurb on its own will not generate the income levels that the club are looking for. It will look prettier and tidier than it is now but that isn't what the whole idea of the refurb is about.

Have you not been keeping up? Anything outside the grandstand refurb won't generate any money at all for Argyle.....oh, sorry, forgot the unbudgetable twelfth of never payment due under the 50% windfall arrangement.

So, actually, the benefit to PAFC is 100% about the refurb. The potential revenue to Argyle will be from the increased capacity, conference facilities, supporters bar etc....all of which are internal to the refurb and nothing to do with HHP....oh, and entirely funded, straightforward and not at all reliant on the superfluous stuff within HHP.

What would be the point of carrying out the refurb on the grandstand if that is all it will achieve?

Increase capacity? Just more empty seats on match days until an underfunded team started to deliver on the pitch

Conference facilities? Which only bring in a fraction of their potential because it is in an isolated location. The hotel is therefore a must to make the conference facilities at least competitive.

Supporters Bar? 340 days a year will be empty because there is nothing to draw people into the area.


The whole point of refurbishment of the grandstand is to bring income into the club. Your plan would be good for match days but it would hardly be a money spinner. It would be like a ghost town on days Argyle weren't playing.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

Let me make it clearer. As a lifelong Argyle fan I want every penny spent on HHP land to go directly in to the wellbeing of my football club. And let's not go down the road of the football club no longer owns the land please. We don't need to go over that again.

You could get your wish, but first let's rename the club Cloud Cuckoo Land Argyle. Why would that ever happen?

 

[IJN]

I’ll ask again (with the forlorn hope it WILL be answered):-

1) How many members have you?

2) How many people E mailed in objections?

Any chance of some transparency or truth from the Argyle Fans Trust?

:tumbleweed:

No? Oh well, shows they have a secret to hide.

Ridiculous organisation.

Still as a proud member of PACSA and Senior Greens, I know who I prefer to give my money to.

:thumbs: