AFT statement on HHP development and **new update 19th Sept*

[esmer]

What amazes me Torquay United & Exeter City can get new stadium development completed & In progress while we are dealing with all the politics of the world with ours

Let's get it done :thumbs:

Incredible innit. And, cynical old me to the fore, if previous form is anything to go by both in Plymouth and the wider area, not a brick of this proposed development will be laid any time soon.

BTW, amid the maelstrom of "arguments" currently being traded around the bazaars, has any concrete [excuse the unintended pun] evidence materialised about how this is going to be funded, apart from Mr Hallett's loan? Seem to recall that the funding issue for the previous HHP proposal was always a bit cloudy too. May have missed something, would be grateful for any info.

Exeter City's development is being funded by the City Council, the landlords of the ground from the sale of land behind the Big Bank to developers to build student flats. I'm sure everyone would be happy for some sort of development on HHP to fund the Grandstand oh sorry they weren't!

Talk about a ground being hemmed in!

That would be excellent if it came to pass and Argyle were left with facilities to take the club into the 21st century- i'm sure that is what all supporters, no matter what their opinions on various matters may be, want to see. But coming back to my earlier post, has there actually been any definitive indication of where the funding for the HHP proposals is to come from, Mr Hallett's loan aside?

Interesting question. How is HHP going to be funded?

It's a completely separate venture to the grandstand by Mr Brent's Akkeron company as is the Western Gate development, you must be selective in the posts you read for this point has been made time and time again.You will have to ask Mr Brent from where he is obtaining his funding for these projects. Probably a loan from the AFT.

 

[Electronic]

It all just seems like the grandstand is just some kind of small insignificant side show in this development, when quite frankly it should be the main event. Just how it feels to me.

Which is exactly what the trust and the naysayers wanted. Create enough noise around the development and the end goal will be forgotten.

The end goal of the HHP and Western Gateway builds is not the refurb though Daz.

As far as Argyle supporters needs I suppose.

What James Brent is proposing is (if passed) going to benefit all the people of Plymouth to some degree. The Ice Arena for those so inclined and if full size possibly of use as an Ice Hockey stadium in the future? A Gym has it's own clientele and restaurants for those wanting to spend time in the park. The offices can provide businesses an option and the hotel bringing it's own revenue to the city.

The Grandstand in the scheme of things is a part of a whole and the whole is going to be more appealing to Joe Bloggs. The money Argyle might make is going to be with the secondary spend from park users and I'd certainly be looking for the Argyle bar being a major contributor of food and drink in the new scheme.

Turn it on its head then and let me ask you a hypothetical question, Ade. If what was being proposed was the HHP development and Western Gateway, with no plan at all for the grandstand and Home Park, how would you feel about it then?

Firstly, the Western Gateway is of no concern to me as I have no interest in staying in a hotel only 1/4 mile from my home so it wouldn't even register.

Secondly, the HHP is as a whole. I support it as a whole and it's impossible to theorise if JB and SH said "stuff it, we'll only build the ancillary buildings".

Thirdly, if I did not support Argyle the grandstand would not register but I would think it would be good for food-drink and restaurants in that area in order to make the most of Central Park.

But, as an Argyle fan - which you are - IF there was a planning application for HHP (forget Western Gateway) which did not include any modification for Home Park, would you support it? The reason I am asking is to try to get to the bottom of what your (and others of similar thinking) prime motivator is in supporting these plans. Would you be happy if it was just the grandstand getting done, or would you have said 'hold on, we need x, y an z on HHP too'?

I would wager that most or all Argyle fans in support of the plans would have been perfectly happy with just the grandstand refurb and sod the rest. Therefore, if the hybrid plan gets chucked out it is logical that James Brent and co have unneccessarily gambled with the plan for Home Park.

Ifs, ands, pots and pans at the moment perhaps.

 

[esmer]

Once again. HHP and the Western Gateway are ventures by Mr Brent's Akkeron company and are completely separate from the grandstand refurbishment. PAFC have not owned HHP since we came out of administration six years ago and have never owned the Western Gate site and, they are,therefore, unconnected to the football club and the proposed grandstand refurbishment.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

I know it's a lot of pages but have you been keeping up?

The grandstand refurb on its own will not generate the income levels that the club are looking for. It will look prettier and tidier than it is now but that isn't what the whole idea of the refurb is about.

 

[esmer]

I know it's a lot of pages but have you been keeping up?

The grandstand refurb on its own will not generate the income levels that the club are looking for. It will look prettier and tidier than it is now but that isn't what the whole idea of the refurb is about.

The club won't benefit from the HHP and Western Gate developments beyond the 50% profit share from the HHP site when it has been developed and the Ice Centre, gym and the outlets etc have been sold.

 

[Ollieargyle9]

Sorry, but does anyone genuinely believe that a currently uninterested resident of Plymouth will suddenly have an urge to see how Carey's magic left foot fares against Doncaster on Saturday because there's a Nandos next door and they can take their cat for a check up?

I think some of the proposed units have a benefit for the area and for central park, but the club benefit is being bigged up to some daft proportions.

Yes, yes a thousand times yes!

Not everybody lives in Plymouth, not everybody sees Argyle as a necessity but merely a hobby.

Build a Nando's/McDonald's and people (particularly young people) have somewhere to meet up and eat before or after a game. Being a fan from outside Plymouth myself I know this to be true, travelling up by train and going into town for lunch first was how me and my friends spent our Saturdays before we could drive. My love of Argyle made the walk worth it but for those less interested they need a bigger push, putting such facilities on site takes away these obstacles.

Gym facilities and an ice rink have similar impacts, young men and women can go to the gym and attend a game afterwards, young families can take their kids ice skating before the football and make a whole day of a trip to Home Park. This can be seen with the life centre, the number of Argyle shirts on kids coming out of the pool with their parents shows this perfectly.

The best way to get more people in is to make a day out at the Argyle a bigger offering. They can't fall in love with our club until they've been tempted into visiting. Not everything in the plans will benefit the club but they don't have to, it's not our land.

 

[Stan]

Once again. HHP and the Western Gateway are ventures by Mr Brent's Akkeron company and are completely separate from the grandstand refurbishment. PAFC have not owned HHP since we came out of administration six years ago and have never owned the Western Gate site and, they are,therefore, unconnected to the football club and the proposed grandstand refurbishment.

Very true and it's a great pity that they weren't separated on the planning application.

 

[jimsing]

Once again. HHP and the Western Gateway are ventures by Mr Brent's Akkeron company and are completely separate from the grandstand refurbishment. PAFC have not owned HHP since we came out of administration six years ago and have never owned the Western Gate site and, they are,therefore, unconnected to the football club and the proposed grandstand refurbishment.

Very true and a great pity that they weren't separated on the planning application.

And cost the Club another x-thousand pounds in order to create and submit the application for the grandstand refurb. That is x-thousand pounds less refurb for the grandstand.

Do you not understand NOW!!!!

 

[IJN]

Even though it saves PAFC about £200k?

I'm not saying for one minutes it's 100% altruistic, but symbiosis is a wonderful thing.

 

[esmer]

Once again. HHP and the Western Gateway are ventures by Mr Brent's Akkeron company and are completely separate from the grandstand refurbishment. PAFC have not owned HHP since we came out of administration six years ago and have never owned the Western Gate site and, they are,therefore, unconnected to the football club and the proposed grandstand refurbishment.

Very true and a great pity that they weren't separated on the planning application.

It would without doubt have been desirable. With schemes like this there are a number of hoops to jump through and the smaller the project the less likely issues will arise. On the other hand Akkeron are funding the application; paying the professional fees and the salary of the project manager and his staff, which means more of the Hallett's money can be spent on the grandstand refurbishment and not architect's, engineer's etc. fees. Also a joint application would be cheaper than two or three individual applications

 

[Stan]

Once again. HHP and the Western Gateway are ventures by Mr Brent's Akkeron company and are completely separate from the grandstand refurbishment. PAFC have not owned HHP since we came out of administration six years ago and have never owned the Western Gate site and, they are,therefore, unconnected to the football club and the proposed grandstand refurbishment.

Very true and a great pity that they weren't separated on the planning application.

And cost the Club another x-thousand pounds in order to create and submit the application for the grandstand refurb. That is x-thousand pounds less refurb for the grandstand.

Do you not understand NOW!!!!

Oh I understand perfectly thanks, it'd be interesting to see who's making the greater saving, Mr Brent or the club. Anyhow I hope it was worth all the heartache and possible delay to the Grandstand development.

 

[IJN]

Obsessed, nothing less.

 

[Ade the green]

It all just seems like the grandstand is just some kind of small insignificant side show in this development, when quite frankly it should be the main event. Just how it feels to me.

Which is exactly what the trust and the naysayers wanted. Create enough noise around the development and the end goal will be forgotten.

The end goal of the HHP and Western Gateway builds is not the refurb though Daz.

As far as Argyle supporters needs I suppose.

What James Brent is proposing is (if passed) going to benefit all the people of Plymouth to some degree. The Ice Arena for those so inclined and if full size possibly of use as an Ice Hockey stadium in the future? A Gym has it's own clientele and restaurants for those wanting to spend time in the park. The offices can provide businesses an option and the hotel bringing it's own revenue to the city.

The Grandstand in the scheme of things is a part of a whole and the whole is going to be more appealing to Joe Bloggs. The money Argyle might make is going to be with the secondary spend from park users and I'd certainly be looking for the Argyle bar being a major contributor of food and drink in the new scheme.

Turn it on its head then and let me ask you a hypothetical question, Ade. If what was being proposed was the HHP development and Western Gateway, with no plan at all for the grandstand and Home Park, how would you feel about it then?

Firstly, the Western Gateway is of no concern to me as I have no interest in staying in a hotel only 1/4 mile from my home so it wouldn't even register.

Secondly, the HHP is as a whole. I support it as a whole and it's impossible to theorise if JB and SH said "stuff it, we'll only build the ancillary buildings".

Thirdly, if I did not support Argyle the grandstand would not register but I would think it would be good for food-drink and restaurants in that area in order to make the most of Central Park.

But, as an Argyle fan - which you are - IF there was a planning application for HHP (forget Western Gateway) which did not include any modification for Home Park, would you support it? The reason I am asking is to try to get to the bottom of what your (and others of similar thinking) prime motivator is in supporting these plans. Would you be happy if it was just the grandstand getting done, or would you have said 'hold on, we need x, y an z on HHP too'?

I would wager that most or all Argyle fans in support of the plans would have been perfectly happy with just the grandstand refurb and sod the rest. Therefore, if the hybrid plan gets chucked out it is logical that James Brent and co have unneccessarily gambled with the plan for Home Park.

Ifs, ands, pots and pans at the moment perhaps.

Obviously as an Argyle fan I am happy to have the grandstand finally upgraded. Would I support the HHP without the grandstand is really an impossible ask but in deference to your question and all things being equal no I wouldn't.

Would I prefer an all singing all dancing multi million pound development akin to the Ethiad? Yes I would (I suppose) but we have to take what we can. The plans for the new developments look to be the best that Argyle, The FOCP and the general people of Plymouth can expect. In some ways I'd like a little more scrubland sacrificed for the development but I think it'll be a major step forward for all the people of Plymouth and Devon as a region.

 

[Stan]

Even though it saves PAFC about £200k?

I'm not saying for one minutes it's 100% altruistic, but symbiosis is a wonderful thing.

Really? 200k on a planning application to renovate a Grandstand, I'd be amazed if that were true.

 

[esmer]

Once again. HHP and the Western Gateway are ventures by Mr Brent's Akkeron company and are completely separate from the grandstand refurbishment. PAFC have not owned HHP since we came out of administration six years ago and have never owned the Western Gate site and, they are,therefore, unconnected to the football club and the proposed grandstand refurbishment.

Very true and a great pity that they weren't separated on the planning application.

And cost the Club another x-thousand pounds in order to create and submit the application for the grandstand refurb. That is x-thousand pounds less refurb for the grandstand.

Do you not understand NOW!!!!

Oh I understand perfectly thanks, it'd be interesting to see who's making the greater saving, Mr Brent or the club. Anyhow I hope it was worth all the heartache and possible delay to the Grandstand development.

You should read his post more carefully, the club will benefit by having more money to spend on the grandstand