AFT statement on HHP development and **new update 19th Sept*

[NorfolkGreen]

What constitutes strong? Someone earlier mentioned 58 for and 38 against had emailed the planning department, is it those 58 that strong support refers?

60 to 38 now and some of the objectors don't object to all and some of the approvers don't approve of all.

So if I have understood correctly the strong support from the supporters in Devon and Cornwall is 60 emails? Can you imagine if the AFT or anyone else made that statement in opposition, yet people refer to it as though it is an overwhelming majority.

I may have missed it, but I've not seen anyone refer to the comments as an "overwhelming majority" one way or the other. It is however a fact that more people who wrote in are in favour of the plans. Its also a fact that by in large the comments are irrelevant to the planning process.

The club said it recognised the strong support, does 60 emails constitute strong support? Just trying to be balanced, if the AFT said they received 60 emails in objection they would be ridiculed.

 

[Army green]

It all just seems like the grandstand is just some kind of small insignificant side show in this development, when quite frankly it should be the main event. Just how it feels to me.

 

[Daz]

What constitutes strong? Someone earlier mentioned 58 for and 38 against had emailed the planning department, is it those 58 that strong support refers?

60 to 38 now and some of the objectors don't object to all and some of the approvers don't approve of all.

So if I have understood correctly the strong support from the supporters in Devon and Cornwall is 60 emails? Can you imagine if the AFT or anyone else made that statement in opposition, yet people refer to it as though it is an overwhelming majority.

I may have missed it, but I've not seen anyone refer to the comments as an "overwhelming majority" one way or the other. It is however a fact that more people who wrote in are in favour of the plans. Its also a fact that by in large the comments are irrelevant to the planning process.

The club said it recognised the strong support, does 60 emails constitute strong support? Just trying to be balanced, if the AFT said they received 60 emails in objection they would be ridiculed.

Where do you sit on the application side NG? Do you support or object?

 

[Daz]

It all just seems like the grandstand is just some kind of small insignificant side show in this development, when quite frankly it should be the main event. Just how it feels to me.

Which is exactly what the trust and the naysayers wanted. Create enough noise around the development and the end goal will be forgotten.

 

[SWTT]

It all just seems like the grandstand is just some kind of small insignificant side show in this development, when quite frankly it should be the main event. Just how it feels to me.

Which is exactly what the trust and the naysayers wanted. Create enough noise around the development and the end goal will be forgotten.

The end goal of the HHP and Western Gateway builds is not the refurb though Daz.

 

[Mike Greening]

This is all very sad, the fanbase being split like this. But it is all of James Brents making because it didnt need to be this way. The refurb would have received pretty much universal fan approval as a stand-alone application. Divide and conquer.

With the club one side and the AFT on the other.

You know I meant the fanbase, you are just being mischievous. I think most people know that the AFT dont actually have that much power but they do have a voice, as do you.

You refuse to believe that the AFT has been divisive even amongst it's own membership to the point that a number of members leaving because the AFT committee are making unsubstantiated objections without their knowledge. Add to that that 90% of the fanbase don't give a monkey's about them.

If the AFT had held a referendum of it's members, would you accept them supporting the development as a whole? Would you heck!

You say 90%? Can you elaborate on the number of fans you polled to come to that conclusion? The AFT is an organisation thats sole purpose is to look after the interests of the clubs fans regardless of ownership.

No I can't, the 90% figure was one I made up just like your AFT chair as to the numbers of "Argyle Fans" objecting to the development.

Answer the question, would you accept the AFT supporting the proposal had they held a referendum which stated quite clearly the rank and file members wanted it?

I believe that the aft (lower case on purpose) is mainly an anti Brent group. It's also a minority group.

 

[Ade the green]

It all just seems like the grandstand is just some kind of small insignificant side show in this development, when quite frankly it should be the main event. Just how it feels to me.

Which is exactly what the trust and the naysayers wanted. Create enough noise around the development and the end goal will be forgotten.

The end goal of the HHP and Western Gateway builds is not the refurb though Daz.

As far as Argyle supporters needs I suppose.

What James Brent is proposing is (if passed) going to benefit all the people of Plymouth to some degree. The Ice Arena for those so inclined and if full size possibly of use as an Ice Hockey stadium in the future? A Gym has it's own clientele and restaurants for those wanting to spend time in the park. The offices can provide businesses an option and the hotel bringing it's own revenue to the city.

The Grandstand in the scheme of things is a part of a whole and the whole is going to be more appealing to Joe Bloggs. The money Argyle might make is going to be with the secondary spend from park users and I'd certainly be looking for the Argyle bar being a major contributor of food and drink in the new scheme.

 

[crownhill pilgrim]

It all just seems like the grandstand is just some kind of small insignificant side show in this development, when quite frankly it should be the main event. Just how it feels to me.

Which is exactly what the trust and the naysayers wanted. Create enough noise around the development and the end goal will be forgotten.

So true, just build the bloody thing and get us out of the 1970s - if people make some money down the line (and the club does too), good - it means jobs and a nice new stand.

 

[esmer]

It all just seems like the grandstand is just some kind of small insignificant side show in this development, when quite frankly it should be the main event. Just how it feels to me.

Which is exactly what the trust and the naysayers wanted. Create enough noise around the development and the end goal will be forgotten.

The end goal of the HHP and Western Gateway builds is not the refurb though Daz.

That is the issue, the Western Gate and HHPdevelopments have nothing to do with the football club beyond the impact HHP will have on the football club as a near neighbour. The application has three separate elements; the grandstand; Higher Home Park and Western Gateway and the AFT should only be focusing only on the elements which affect the football club namely the grandstand and the HHP development, only as it affects the club. Western Gate (the vet site) is completely divorced from the football club and has no impact on it and is therefore of no concern to the AFT. It is wholly wrong that their objections seem to centre on Western Gate and they appear happy with the grandstand and, as far as I can tell, HHP.

Apart from the fact they have decided to shelve democratic process and act without a mandate they are basing their objection on an element of the application which does not concern them.

I would make the point strongly that the planning procedure is a democratic process (a term with which it appears the AFT board are unfamiliar) and all citizens are entitled to object to the Western Gate element of the application and that includes members of the AFT board, but as individuals not as representatives of the fan base.

 

[Leigh Rapson]

Out of interest, with regards to the gym, is this a commercial gym or is it for use by the club and staff of the club? Couldn’t find anything when looked.

 

[Frank Butcher]

It all just seems like the grandstand is just some kind of small insignificant side show in this development, when quite frankly it should be the main event. Just how it feels to me.

As I see it, it absolutely is the main event. It's the picking around the edges that results in threads like this and deflects from the overall benefit to the club.

My only criticism is that JB and co. could have done a better job of outlining the benefits to the club of the rounded proposal - some of which are acknowledged by 'isondil' in their post above.

 

[IJN]

Out of interest, with regards to the gym, is this a commercial gym or is it for use by the club and staff of the club? Couldn’t find anything when looked.

Why are you thinking of joining a gym Mr R?

 

[Stan]

What constitutes strong? Someone earlier mentioned 58 for and 38 against had emailed the planning department, is it those 58 that strong support refers?

60 to 38 now and some of the objectors don't object to all and some of the approvers don't approve of all.

So if I have understood correctly the strong support from the supporters in Devon and Cornwall is 60 emails? Can you imagine if the AFT or anyone else made that statement in opposition, yet people refer to it as though it is an overwhelming majority.

I may have missed it, but I've not seen anyone refer to the comments as an "overwhelming majority" one way or the other. It is however a fact that more people who wrote in are in favour of the plans. Its also a fact that by in large the comments are irrelevant to the planning process.

The club said it recognised the strong support, does 60 emails constitute strong support? Just trying to be balanced, if the AFT said they received 60 emails in objection they would be ridiculed.

Where do you sit on the application side NG? Do you support or object?

A strange response to a perfectly reasonable question.

 

[pilgrimage]

I wonder how many AFT members on here agree with the trust's objections? As a member myself I don't agree.

I see it as a benefit for Plymouth which will also be a plus for Argyle. We have been pussy footing about for too long.

 

[Daz]

The club said it recognised the strong support, does 60 emails constitute strong support? Just trying to be balanced, if the AFT said they received 60 emails in objection they would be ridiculed.

Where do you sit on the application side NG? Do you support or object?

A strange response to a perfectly reasonable question.

The point of whether 60 people emailing in support is strong or not is not worth getting in to a discussion about as its subjective dependant on your viewpoint. Argyle are noting it as support, whereas the AFT are claiming to represent all Argyle fans. NG also states that he is trying to bring balance, so i think its fair that users know what side of the fence he is on.

I'm for the development, so as much as i can try to be balanced the fact is my posts on the subject are driven by my personal 'agenda' that i think the development will bring jobs, money and more to the area. If NG is against the development then his agenda of asking irrelevant questions about what constitutes strong support is just adding background noise that doesn't bring anything to the debate (in my opinion of course).