Would you put Diagouraga in the team now ?

[landons forehead]

... but he used us as a stepping stone and that is not the kind of player I would want to see back in an Argyle shirt...

Simon Church?

I would say the same about Church if the same thing happens, there again I stated my displeasure at the time regarding signing a player who chose a wee club in a wee northern sh1thole over us, so my opinion would be the same with Church if he used us to get fit and then moved on. Granted Scunny were above us in the table, but they are a small club with a small fan base and small attendances, much the same with Toums I would have rather gone to a decent sized club by first division standards, playing in front of above average crowds.

I think you're being incredibly unrealistic about the realities of being a lower league professional footballer.

Without exception, you can bet that not single member of our current team grew up dreaming of playing for Plymouth Argyle - they're putting the work in for the club whilst they're here and that's all you can really ask for, that's what they're paid for.

I absolutely guarantee that if you were working away from your family, and then another company offered you double your wage and the chance to see your kids more you'd take it. The player's job is NOT his entire life.

If Toums was offered more money and a chance to move near to his family, he'd have been an idiot not to do it. He'll be retired by 35 with minimal qualifications and a family to support. It's ridiculous and a bit mean to try to paint him as a money-grabber in this situation, it's not Wayne Rooney throwing his teddies out of the pram because he's "only" getting paid 250k a week. He did a good job for Argyle, we're doing alright without him and we don't really need to rub it in that his team isn't doing so well.

Bang on. All I expect from an Argo player is that he gives our club his all every game, whether his career is one game or one hundred.

Bang on ?, we will have to agree to disagree. Everyone praises Carey for the loyalty he showed us when turning down higher wages and being closer to Scotland when he chose to stay with us, that is loyalty and that is something that Toums quite clearly doesn't have, in my opinion

I don't agree that we should agree to disagree.

 

[DartPilgrim]

... but he used us as a stepping stone and that is not the kind of player I would want to see back in an Argyle shirt...

Simon Church?

I would say the same about Church if the same thing happens, there again I stated my displeasure at the time regarding signing a player who chose a wee club in a wee northern sh1thole over us, so my opinion would be the same with Church if he used us to get fit and then moved on. Granted Scunny were above us in the table, but they are a small club with a small fan base and small attendances, much the same with Toums I would have rather gone to a decent sized club by first division standards, playing in front of above average crowds.

I think you're being incredibly unrealistic about the realities of being a lower league professional footballer.

Without exception, you can bet that not single member of our current team grew up dreaming of playing for Plymouth Argyle - they're putting the work in for the club whilst they're here and that's all you can really ask for, that's what they're paid for.

I absolutely guarantee that if you were working away from your family, and then another company offered you double your wage and the chance to see your kids more you'd take it. The player's job is NOT his entire life.

If Toums was offered more money and a chance to move near to his family, he'd have been an idiot not to do it. He'll be retired by 35 with minimal qualifications and a family to support. It's ridiculous and a bit mean to try to paint him as a money-grabber in this situation, it's not Wayne Rooney throwing his teddies out of the pram because he's "only" getting paid 250k a week. He did a good job for Argyle, we're doing alright without him and we don't really need to rub it in that his team isn't doing so well.

Forgive me if I am wrong but is this site not about "personal opinions" ?. As for being incredibly unrealistic about lower league footballers, I probably know far, far more lower league footballers both present and past than you do, as well as players who have played higher up the league's in England and Scotland, so it would be incredible to assume what they would or would not do. Personally I think that loyalty holds far more sway than anything else.

As for the "I can guarantee you if a company offered you double the money then you would take it" comment you would be well advised not to make assumptions towards people you do not know. I gave up an incredibly well paying job to look after my mum, I didn't receive a penny for looking after my mum and didn't claim anything like careers or attendance allowance, so don't make assumptions when you do not know the person you are addressing. I also gave up work to look after my youngest brother, again for no financial gain so it is safe to assume your assumption is wrong again.

Toums chose more money and bring near his family and I respect that, but at the same time I think he could have showed loyalty to a manager, team and fans who gave him the chance to play again, considering that nobody wanted him when Derek signed him. I for one would find it hilarious it Fleetwood Town go down at the end of the season, and in doing so their players take a substantial cut in wages, because to me this is just as mercenary as Sanchez going to Manchester United

Just out of interest Argyle-sy , do you know Toums ?

 

[Andy Holland]

... but he used us as a stepping stone and that is not the kind of player I would want to see back in an Argyle shirt...

Simon Church?

I would say the same about Church if the same thing happens, there again I stated my displeasure at the time regarding signing a player who chose a wee club in a wee northern sh1thole over us, so my opinion would be the same with Church if he used us to get fit and then moved on. Granted Scunny were above us in the table, but they are a small club with a small fan base and small attendances, much the same with Toums I would have rather gone to a decent sized club by first division standards, playing in front of above average crowds.

I think you're being incredibly unrealistic about the realities of being a lower league professional footballer.

Without exception, you can bet that not single member of our current team grew up dreaming of playing for Plymouth Argyle - they're putting the work in for the club whilst they're here and that's all you can really ask for, that's what they're paid for.

I absolutely guarantee that if you were working away from your family, and then another company offered you double your wage and the chance to see your kids more you'd take it. The player's job is NOT his entire life.

If Toums was offered more money and a chance to move near to his family, he'd have been an idiot not to do it. He'll be retired by 35 with minimal qualifications and a family to support. It's ridiculous and a bit mean to try to paint him as a money-grabber in this situation, it's not Wayne Rooney throwing his teddies out of the pram because he's "only" getting paid 250k a week. He did a good job for Argyle, we're doing alright without him and we don't really need to rub it in that his team isn't doing so well.

Forgive me if I am wrong but is this site not about "personal opinions" ?. As for being incredibly unrealistic about lower league footballers, I probably know far, far more lower league footballers both present and past than you do, as well as players who have played higher up the league's in England and Scotland, so it would be incredible to assume what they would or would not do. Personally I think that loyalty holds far more sway than anything else.

As for the "I can guarantee you if a company offered you double the money then you would take it" comment you would be well advised not to make assumptions towards people you do not know. I gave up an incredibly well paying job to look after my mum, I didn't receive a penny for looking after my mum and didn't claim anything like careers or attendance allowance, so don't make assumptions when you do not know the person you are addressing. I also gave up work to look after my youngest brother, again for no financial gain so it is safe to assume your assumption is wrong again.

Toums chose more money and bring near his family and I respect that, but at the same time I think he could have showed loyalty to a manager, team and fans who gave him the chance to play again, considering that nobody wanted him when Derek signed him. I for one would find it hilarious it Fleetwood Town go down at the end of the season, and in doing so their players take a substantial cut in wages, because to me this is just as mercenary as Sanchez going to Manchester United

I have sympathy for your situation and it seems you did a noble thing, but it's got absolutely zero relevance to Toums' situation, other than that you've both acted in ways that were for the best of the people you love.

Imagine him telling his wife "well, I could have doubled my money, which we need, and come home and seen you and the kids more, but Derek Adams says I'll play every week and we're up to 14th in the table".

He's got absolutely zero ties to the area, no ties to the club, and other than his teammates he'll know no-one in the area. Players don't think of clubs the same way fans do and it's folly to think otherwise.

 

[Knibbsworth]

Great posts Andy.

Loyalty in football? What about Jordan Slew, helped Argyle to 86 points last season, got a promotion medal around his neck and was released instantly. Now he's playing in the dark depths of non league for a club I've never heard of and probably isn't earning enough money to pay his mortgage.

How many of the Argyle squad have been here for more than three seasons? They came from other clubs and most will depart for new ones.

Players come and go, all most will leave with is a few grand in the bank and some memories.

 

[Cobi Budge]

Sarcevic, Fox & Ness have been excellent as a midfield trio lately and personally I wouldn't even dream of breaking them up.

 

[Biggs]

Everyone knew the situation when Toums arrived, therefore there’s simply no case to answer in terms of letting us down or being a mercenary.

Argyle benefitted + he benefitted = a great situation all round. To criticise him in any way is absolutely extraordinary given he was an important catalyst in this unbelievable season.

That said, I think I prefer Ness .