We should have sold Whittaker (merged)

[Green Flash]

If he wants to, sure. But if we stay up will he want to? Lots of people on here were saying in January that there was no chance we would keep him, at the time he made it very clear he didn't want to go. That may have changed, but I don't see much reason for it to have changed. As for his value, sure, he's had a barren spell. So did Viktor Gyokeres the season before last where he had a three month spell without a goal. After a summer break I'm expecting Morgan to be back even better next season. And with his stats if we do sell him (if still in the Championship) he shouldn't be going anywhere for anything less than £15m, and we probably could get more than that later in the window if he starts well and if clubs got desperate. If we go down we wouldn't get that, because the difference in transfer value if you go down is enormous, but if we did go down we'd still be able to hold out for a decent fee and be able to reinvest the money in improving the club (whether that be the team or off the field).

If we stay up I agree he may wish to stay, but might depend on who comes in to manage, he clearly needs very careful handling. He has not looked very happy to me for the last couple of months.

I dont think he is worth £15m at the moment. He will need to recover his form for that sort of money, otherwise clubs are just going to think he had a hot streak where everything dropped but he cannot sustain it.

 

[Ringpull]

Since January and when Finn left he has gone AWOL . Loses the ball too easily, shows no interest in getting involved . Very frustrating for such a talented player .

 

[oldage]

Since January and when Finn left he has gone AWOL . Loses the ball too easily, shows no interest in getting involved . Very frustrating for such a talented player .

I think Whittaker needs to feel comfortable in a particular environment. He could not settle with Swansea but we were an ideal match for his personality when Schumacher was in charge. I am no longer sure he as settled as he was and would not be surprised to see him move.

 

[greengodwin]

I think Whittaker needs to feel comfortable in a particular environment. He could not settle with Swansea but we were an ideal match for his personality when Schumacher was in charge. I am no longer sure he as settled as he was and would not be surprised to see him move.

Spot on, and I'm not confident he will prosper consistently elsewhere above Div 1 level sadly....

 

[Dunc67]

Since January and when Finn left he has gone AWOL . Loses the ball too easily, shows no interest in getting involved . Very frustrating for such a talented player .

8 Goals and 4 assists since January suggests you're talking rubbish, point me in the direction of an attacking player that's contributed half of that. I'll wait.

 

[rongreenblood]

I think Whittaker needs to feel comfortable in a particular environment. He could not settle with Swansea but we were an ideal match for his personality when Schumacher was in charge. I am no longer sure he as settled as he was and would not be surprised to see him move.

To Stoke?

 

[Belfast Green]

200+ pages wanting to get from Swansea last summer and now this. MW is playing relatively poorly because he has had his supply lines cut. If we stay up, I would desperately want to keep him but recruit a few he could play alongside.

 

[Tugboat]

Well just ignore the Swansea sell on then? 😳

By the way, we've as much chance of selling MW for £20m now as you have of not knee jerking Tuggers. 😉

Low dig.

 

[CarolinaGreen]

To Stoke?

If we get the right money, and he wants to go, let's not cut off our nose to spite our face.

 

[jimsing]

Silly thread.
The real mistake was the transfer window and replacement of any semblance of an attack minded midfield (to work in tandem with MW) with Alfie Devine and two other primarily defensive midfielders.
I'd guess that Forshaw is our biggest outlay from January and he's a notorious crock who'll be getting a big fat cheque at the end of every week to do sweet FA.
Clearly there was some budget kicking around to offer him a contract, he won't be cheap. The priority clearly should have been loans or signings who continued the same style of football, for all its faults, but Foster went out and recruited a load of players in positions we had enough cover for (especially if Butcher had been convinced to see out the season).
Seriously, when SS left were told in no uncertain terms that there would be a continuation of front foot football. So who the hell was green lighting Foster's signings and not asking him 'look Ian, who are the attacking players off our supposedly wonderful database that you want to bring in?'
I get the impression from various comments from the club that skirt around the transfer window that Foster was given this list of well researched players and turned it down flat because he was the big I am and was doing anything to throw his weight around.
Speculation I know, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he was encouraged to go after Azeez at Reading but that he totally half arsed it because he wasn't one of his picks.
His hand should have been forced and he should have been told 'Ian, we're signing X attacking midfielder and another on loan because during the interview you categorically said you were going to be a continuation candidate'.
Its no wonder MW looks flat given he is being asked to carry basically all of our attacking threat on his own.
Same for Hardie, absolutely run into the ground and spent because we didn't go out and get a striker, ANY striker, from the lower leagues or on loan, to occasionally come into the side instead of the mostly ineffective Waine (and this really isn't a dig at Waine, but no other championship club would have him as their ONLY back up striker and I doubt many league 1 sides would even be happy to start a season, then not address in January, a strike force of Hardie and Waine only!)

I broadly agree with your criticisms, UTL, other than your speculations and personal misgivings.

I will say that getting in a Championship striker to challenge Hardie would have been well out of our budget, but we were lacking a replacement for Azaz and we did not have the money to replace the £2.5m midfielder directly with another.

Whether we could have found a loan as his replacement remains open to conjecture. Azaz was a loan with us to begin with, so it might have been possible, but he did have the advantage of being with us for a whole season to get up to speed with the required playing methods, and it would have been impossible to replace him with a like minded player to do what he did for just a half season.

We could have done better with the player budget had we had more to spend, but the budget was the budget and you cannot argue that we should have spent more because our first priority was to remain a sustainable football club, regardless of what the future may or may not have held.

 

[the corkscrew]

...and invested the money in the squad. We have a startling lack of any depth of quality, and some of our players have been absolutely run into the ground whilst at the same time MW has been a disinterested shadow of his former self.

When we've needed him to step up most, he's been at best anonymous and at worst a selfish player more interested in getting to 20 goals than assisting others and getting points on the board.

When he was good for us he was incredible, but he's been found out and hasn't stepped up when we've needed him most.

He didn't want to leave so your point is nul and void.

 

[mutley marvel]

Morgs is one player in our team- he alone cannot carry the team
Finn was on his wavelength & when they were both on it we got results
Finn leaving probably pulled the rug from under him & his player confidence has taken a dent as he perceives the level of expectation for him to still deliver is on his head & his head alone
The other players in our team are trying but they do not have Finn's qualities & therefore Morgs is probably putting to much pressure on himself or over thinking things in the pursuit of putting the ball in the back of the net

 

[Green95]

Like many others, I too feel like his drop in form is mainly due to the loss of Azaz and any sort of playmaking we had in midfield. Even Cundle was dynamic in midfield and pushed us forward.

I feel for Morgan who turned down Champions League football to stay with us. How often has that ever happened in our history? For those bashing him try and look at the wider image with all the disruption around January and loss of creativity. If we stay up he will be one of the main reasons we did, and we can point to the countless times he saved us just like many can point to officiating. Swansea, pass to Mumba at Rotherham, his goal against Birmingham at home (which without would have Brum 2 points ahead of us today).

His season has been historic for us and if we were in Swansea or Millwall's position would be remembered fondly for decades.

 

[up the line]

I broadly agree with your criticisms, UTL, other than your speculations and personal misgivings.

I will say that getting in a Championship striker to challenge Hardie would have been well out of our budget, but we were lacking a replacement for Azaz and we did not have the money to replace the £2.5m midfielder directly with another.

Whether we could have found a loan as his replacement remains open to conjecture. Azaz was a loan with us to begin with, so it might have been possible, but he did have the advantage of being with us for a whole season to get up to speed with the required playing methods, and it would have been impossible to replace him with a like minded player to do what he did for just a half season.

We could have done better with the player budget had we had more to spend, but the budget was the budget and you cannot argue that we should have spent more because our first priority was to remain a sustainable football club, regardless of what the future may or may not have held.

I haven't advocated anywhere for spending more than we had.
Only to attempt to replace like for like instead of wasting what budget we did have on players in positions we were already adequately covered in. That's a failure primarily of Foster's making but also of those sanctioning his transfers.
In any case I don't buy this 'no budget' line.
We had:.
Schmacher compensation
Numerous other back room departures who weren't replaced meaning wage budget being freed up
The departures of Azaz, Cundle, Kesler-Hayden.
The release of Butcher
The sale and departure of Gillespie
The departure on loan of Wright and Earley
Home cup ties with full houses against Crystal Palace, Sutton and Leeds plus a share of the receipts from Elland Road
Full houses in every league game
Record breaking shirt sales
I simply don't buy that there was nothing kicking around behind the cushions and we managed to find a probably not inconsiderable wage package for Forshaw

 

[Green Flash]

Funnily enough, while his goals dried up a bit earlier, Morgan continued to play well under Foster through February and March. While we took him for granted because he was no longer scoring worldies opposition fans often pointed him out as our best performer. It has really only been the last 4 or 5 games that he seems to have completely run out of steam.