We Don't Know What We're Doing!

[Pilgrim61]

Matt, you make a fair point but I feel your assumptions are flawed.

The Board's strategic objective that is not being delivered at the moment is results. Start and end of, no argument.

The Board say we need more experience to support the manager. Totally agree.

The role they describe, in a few words, is not a DoF. It's a role that CF doesn't perform now anyway. It's actually taking responsibilities off other staff in the management structure....nothing to do with improving an under performing manager and team. How does an 'experienced manager' dealing with 'budgets, contracts and the like' help turn this situation around?

What does the statement "However, Sexstone said the director of football 'will have no influence on team selection or tactics'. Those decisions 'would be the coach's alone" say to you to give you confidence that results will improve? What am I missing?

If we want a real DoF, that's fine with me. Give him the responsibilities I light heartedly describe, but whole heartedly mean, and make the manager responsible to him. Maybe then we will see progress; not fudge, platitudes and fake change!

 

[commander_funk]

It appears that the DoF won't be involved at all in the football side in any way shape or form, and for me that means team selection / tactics / training / etc.

Fair enough, they do specify they're looking for a candidate who doesn't want to be a manager any more, and if they were doing all that they would be de-facto manager, not really a director of football at all.

That said I'm sure that if there was no involvement on this side whatsoever then there would be no point getting an ex-manager in, so I would guess they will have the odd word in the ear of Carl, and be there to help him achieve his objectives even if they're not standing next to him every day on the training ground.

Transfer policy is an area where we have struggled, so I would imagine that will be a priority. Not just about balancing the books as I've seen suggested, but bringing in the right calibre of players on the right money, something we have singularly failed to do. Doesn't matter who we have in charge, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and if your players aren't good enough the same will likely be said for your results. Think Damien Commoli at Newcastle and the gems they've unearthed in the last year or two (who here would sack Pardew by the way?).

If we can bring in somebody with a good contact book, an eye for a player, used to working on a budget, who can help the manager to achieve his goals in terms of playing style and the type of players he's after, then what is there to be cynical about?

You also then have someone in a perfect position to take over, at least in the short term, should Carl get canned so that the players have some continuity and we can go through a proper recruitment process. That makes sense, right?

I think whatever action is taken other than the immediate sacking of Carl Fletcher will be treated with contempt because sacking Carl Fletcher is the agenda and objective of most on this thread. As I've said before I'm far from a Brent fanboy, but turning on the board in this situation is just mental. We've only just appointed this new director, they've barely got their feet under the desk, they're taking immediate action, and suddenly they're clueless? I think the press statements were rushed out somewhat, there are lessons to be learnt, but it's unwise to draw sweeping inferences from every press article you read. Common sense and the Leveson report should tell us that.

Then again, somebody like Heaney would probably have sacked CF by now so everybody would be happy then, right?

 

[briangreen]

A football savvy input Brian? - yes we were calling for it and yes we thought we got it with Sextone.

With the DOF idea we at least identified a need for help even if a new direction was preferred.

By prescribing such a narrow, non tactical and backroom remit however it's fair to question that savvyness.

Get your point smiffy, but I think the remit ur referring to will be extended, maybe not publicly, but certainly within the confines of home park.

 

[IPA]

At the end of the day guys the only way we're going to get our point across to Brent & co that we want a change and save our football club from almost certain relegation to the conference for the first time in our proud 126 year history is to start boycotting home games.

I know it's harsh but that's the only way they will take notice of what most of the fan base wants and it will surely be a case of being cruel to be kind!

 

[X Isle]

A football savvy input Brian? - yes we were calling for it and yes we thought we got it with Sextone.

With the DOF idea we at least identified a need for help even if a new direction was preferred.

By prescribing such a narrow, non tactical and backroom remit however it's fair to question that savvyness.

Get your point smiffy, but I think the remit ur referring to will be extended, maybe not publicly, but certainly within the confines of home park.

No personal offence intended Brian but you "thinking" something else might be happening doesn't override Colin Sextone publicly and specifically stating the DOF will have no input on team selection and tactics.

I appreciate there may exist some wriggle room between what is said and something effective bring achieved from all this. However that requires some faith and as we know from our previous discussions on the merits or otherwise of Carl Fletchers managerial wizardry -faith is something you still possess but that finally ran out with me a couple of weeks back.

We will know when he's chosen which scenario is playing out. If he's a significant individual with clout in the game then maybe I'll conceed there's a chance he can weild some influence and his remit may be wider than publicly stated. If he's a no mark, then we'll know he's a pantomime horse in the boards game of smoke and mirrors, the impression of change but actually no change.

 

[Pilgrim61]

On another post I put a quote from Lawrie McMenemy, referring to the tension that arose in his role as DoF and Alan Ball (manager). It is extremely important that the boundaries are clear otherwise there will be confusion.

One of the longest serving DoFs, but probably low profile in the role, is John Rudge at Stoke City. What follows is from their website.

A hugely-successful manager, John took charge of 843 matches at Vale Park, helping them climb from the lower echelons of the Football League's basement division all the way to the upper reaches of the Championship during his 16-year spell in charge.

He has been the Director of Football at the Britannia Stadium for the past 13 years serving as a valuable ally to no fewer than five different managers.

His current duties at the Club include playing a key role in all transfer and contract negotiations, helping expand the Club's scouting network and dealing with player issues.

As you can see, it sounds probably similar to the sort of thing we're thinking about....even to the extent that there is no involvement in first team affairs. Tony Pulis, experienced and a strong character, with his own coaching team has, I understand, limited involvement with Rudge and dealing with player issues is nothing to do with the football side of things. And there's nothing wrong with that, given the coaching set up there.

This sort of model though will change nothing at Argyle. We would be better off employing a defensive coach and an attacking coach then an expensive tea boy!

Personally, if I was setting the role specification for the job it would say the following:

> develop and implement an agreed football strategy for the club to meet Board objectives
> managerial responsibility for the first team manager
> set objectives and targets and manage performance of first team manager

Plus all the nice twiddly bits! I see absolutely nothing wrong with the above. What is wrong with making people responsible and accountable? Surely one of the issues to address in any change is the lack of pressure on the manager - something he regularly refers to!

I welcome Colin Sexstone's appointment, but I don't feel that this has been well thought out....don't forget, we had a DoF last year! The communication around this has been usual Argyle standard. There would have been a much better reaction if we had said we we're bringing in a very experienced Asst Manager to work with CF....on the training ground, in the dug out etc...a much better option then the mudge and fudge we're going to get!

 

[IPA]

Surely one of the issues to address in any change is the lack of pressure on the manager - something he regularly refers to!

The only pressure on our manager seems to be coming from the the lifeblood of the club - us the fans.

Unfortunately, we don't seem to be taken seriously which is very disappointing considering all Brent's promises about the fans having a big say in how the club is run when he first took over.

We've become a laughing stock and need make ourselves heard even more loudly because we really don't want to be watching conference football next season.

 

[demportdave]

A football savvy input Brian? - yes we were calling for it and yes we thought we got it with Sextone.

With the DOF idea we at least identified a need for help even if a new direction was preferred.

By prescribing such a narrow, non tactical and backroom remit however it's fair to question that savvyness.

Get your point smiffy, but I think the remit ur referring to will be extended, maybe not publicly, but certainly within the confines of home park.

With respect Brian, you don't know what the remit will be, you are just speculating.

We can only go on what has been publicly stated by the Directors and that is why many of us think that they really don't know what they are doing.

The only reason a DOF is being appointed is because of the poor performance of the team over almost half a season which ultimately, is the responsibility of a Manager who is badly under-performing.

This appointment is not part of a well thought out long-term strategy, such as the example quoted with John Rudge at Stoke and it's misleading to compare it to that.

However, the Board seem reluctant to say anything that even remotely implies any criticism of the Manager, even to the extent that they have made a point of stating that the incoming DOF will have no involvement in team selection or tactics - even though his appointment is a direct result of the woeful performance of the Manager and his team on the field.

Hence the title of this thread, "We Don't Know What We Are Doing!"

 

[ejh]

After reading about the success of Rudge at Port Vale, how about we do away with Fletch and his Director of Football role and make Rudge the manager?

In all seriousness, Sextone will have tried to break this news by undermining Fletch as little as he had to. Fletch will interpret a new and experienced DoF coming in as a timely guillotine above his neck, and with good reason. Sextone stated that the DoF will take over should there be cause to get rid of the manager - that was the crucial part. You are all taking Sextone's words a little too literally, I think, in how limited this new role will impact the club.

 

[Pilgrim61]

You are all taking Sextone's words a little too literally, I think, in how limited this new role will impact the club.

I hope you're right, but why all this pussy footing around? When Yeovil brought Johnson in above Skiveton, or Bournemouh with Howe over Groves, they were just told to like it or lump it.

It's a completely legitimate proposition that the DoF takes over if the manager goes........what doesn't make sense is that there is no involvement otherwise!

In terms of what's literally been said..........well it's pretty clear.

Maybe this is all a Machiavellian plan to oust Prince Fletch and replace him with a wizened old Lord Protector.

But to go back to the tenet of the op.........exactly what problem are we trying to solve?

 

[Pilgrim61]

Another league 2 club sack their manager - not manufacture fudge - where the performance is not meeting the expectation of the owners and the resources deployed.

 

[ejh]

P61 - do you know for sure how the DoF news was delivered? Or did Johnson's (for example) role expand over time?

Even still different clubs handle things differently. I don't see why Brent and Sextone will have conjured up a plan together to waste more of the club's money giving Fletch more time. It doesn't make sense. This is clearly a manouvre to bring in some much needed experience and stability to the club, and give Fletch some tactical insight from an experienced pair of eyes not reacting to pressure, criticism, scrutiny and the rest of it. The contracts and training duties are standard DOF stuff, and outlining Fletch's command of the first team was probably needed to let the first team players know who's boss and that nothing has changed for them. Let's see how it all unfolds first before ranting.

 

[Pilgrim61]

Personally, I don't care if the news was delivered in person or by Pilgrim Pete disguised as Postman Pat!

It's the message not the delivery method I'm concerned about.

The criticism, not ranting, is that I would love to see a proper DoF....but that is not how the role is described. If this is a 'manoeuvre' as you say, to do what you say, then why not bring in an experienced number two, like other young managers such as Robinson, Rowett, Freedman etc etc have?

The problem we are surely trying to address is an under performing manager and an under performing first team. You and a few others are putting massive faith in Mr Sexstone's words 'and the like'. I hope you are right, but the inability or willingness to articulate it is worrying.

As for Johnson and Howe, the Boards put the needs of the clubs above the sensitivities of the individuals, who were effectively demoted. Tough times call for tough decisions.

 

[IPA]

As for Johnson and Howe, the Boards put the needs of the clubs above the sensitivities of the individuals, who were effectively demoted. Tough times call for tough decisions.

Quite right P61.

Fletcher will catagorically not accept a number 2 to help him and the board seem to be pandering to him for whatever reason.

What makes this even more worrying is the fact that a few weeks back when the youth team were playing Excreter CF was nowhere to be seen because he was apparently in Bournemouth being interviewed for the then vacant manager's job.

Any other club would have kicked his arse down the road so fast his feet wouldn't have touched the ground so WTF is going on at HP?

All I can suggest is he must have some pretty incriminating photos of Brent!

 

[ejh]

Therefore you don't really know in what capacity other clubs brought in their Directors of Football, how they were initiated, etc.?