Where is the OP?
Make a bold statement then hide away....
Is this an Exs*iter fan stirring things up?
Make a bold statement then hide away....
Is this an Exs*iter fan stirring things up?
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the Manager!......GET OFF HIS BACK
- Thread starter driscollberg
- Start date
Cerbera":d3kzybar said:
I would agree with you there. My feeling is that is how the team needs to be progressing after Saturdays 4-1 win at Barnet rather than having a good result then taking two steps back again in the following couple of games as has happened too often this season so far.
If Mr Fletcher can maintain this type of play and results (I am not meaning winning 4-1 each week, just obtaining a good points tally, on average 2 a game) then I am sure that some of his non-supporters might change their minds (me included).
Womble - Sorry you are right, there wasn't any need to single you out, I think i'm getting you confused with another poster(s.) I just saw the post on this thread and thought it was a bit odd - you saying we are nothing etc... with the exception of Gillingham and Port Vale no side are up to much so far in this league. Surely you didn't expect us to get off to an absolute flyer? Personally I thought we would have another 4/5 points up to this stage of the season, but so far I haven't been too surprised (home form a bit poor mind you.)
Cerbera - There's some stuff you say which makes some sense but then there's stuff about fletcher being clueless and arrogant. Where did you get this from? Clueless would suggest he knew about as much in football management terms as you and I, whereas i'd argue he has probably learnt as much or a lot more over the past 15 years than most young aspiring managers.
You say the first thing he should concentrate on is winning - even if it's ugly. Now this is the bit that I don't understand. He will have a philosophy which will obviously be slightly adaptable. So for example now that the fireman is back from injury we have a focal point for attacking sides, but we can also mix it up. Meanwhile the youngsters in the middle are getting used to playing week in week out and are learning - the new signings are also improving. The evidence is there (apart from AFC Wimbledon.) So basically you want a manager that will just get us winning regardless of the style of play. Well Fletch is a young manager, he will want to build the team from scratch as opposed to a firefighting approach, get in get out, which we could have with some of the more experienced lot. But then what? What if we didn't get promoted? We would have to surely start again. By building the side up and teaching them to play on the floor (something a lot of fans moan that we haven't done enough of since the Pedro Shilton days) then even if Fletch was to leave or get sacked next season lets say then he would have built a group of relatively young players to play passing/attacking footie.
You've mentioned 5 mistakes and lets face it we could probably pick out another 20, BUT that's going to be the same with many of the managers - Chadwick for example - well at the time we needed players to do a job - we were struggling and needed experienced pro's and we got 3 in Wotton, Purse and Chadders. Now I agree that he isn't great and eventually these won't be playing week in week out but they had to be brought in otherwise we could have been fooked. That's partly why we are kind of paying the price now because these guys are our highest earners BUT take nothing away from the help they gave us last season and even this season Purse is starting to find form again. You mention about mistakes tactically throughout various games well you can also say he made positive changes in 3 or 4 other games. In fact i'd argue that the main reason we aren't in 6th position is down to some individual errors that have cropped up this campaign. I don't want to mention injuries because most sides have their fare share.
The guy has been in charge for a year. That's not a long time at all to give for someone without significant managerial pedigree. He needs time, even if we lose the next match or the match after, BUT generally we have improved performances wise, and player for player are we better off than at the end of last season? That's surely a "yes."
At the end of the day after a 1-4 win there wasn't too much going on with pasoti, the same happened when we beat Morecombe, but when we lost to AFC Wimbledon it went mental and that's because posters are waiting to hit the "Fletcher's sh*te" button. That's easy. We're 18th. Yet my views on Fletch would be roughly the same even if we were 6th (check out the difference in points, not many) yet if we were 6th people would be hitting the "Fletcher is great button." That's a huge contrast in opinion. Too extreme for my liking.
Cerbera - There's some stuff you say which makes some sense but then there's stuff about fletcher being clueless and arrogant. Where did you get this from? Clueless would suggest he knew about as much in football management terms as you and I, whereas i'd argue he has probably learnt as much or a lot more over the past 15 years than most young aspiring managers.
You say the first thing he should concentrate on is winning - even if it's ugly. Now this is the bit that I don't understand. He will have a philosophy which will obviously be slightly adaptable. So for example now that the fireman is back from injury we have a focal point for attacking sides, but we can also mix it up. Meanwhile the youngsters in the middle are getting used to playing week in week out and are learning - the new signings are also improving. The evidence is there (apart from AFC Wimbledon.) So basically you want a manager that will just get us winning regardless of the style of play. Well Fletch is a young manager, he will want to build the team from scratch as opposed to a firefighting approach, get in get out, which we could have with some of the more experienced lot. But then what? What if we didn't get promoted? We would have to surely start again. By building the side up and teaching them to play on the floor (something a lot of fans moan that we haven't done enough of since the Pedro Shilton days) then even if Fletch was to leave or get sacked next season lets say then he would have built a group of relatively young players to play passing/attacking footie.
You've mentioned 5 mistakes and lets face it we could probably pick out another 20, BUT that's going to be the same with many of the managers - Chadwick for example - well at the time we needed players to do a job - we were struggling and needed experienced pro's and we got 3 in Wotton, Purse and Chadders. Now I agree that he isn't great and eventually these won't be playing week in week out but they had to be brought in otherwise we could have been fooked. That's partly why we are kind of paying the price now because these guys are our highest earners BUT take nothing away from the help they gave us last season and even this season Purse is starting to find form again. You mention about mistakes tactically throughout various games well you can also say he made positive changes in 3 or 4 other games. In fact i'd argue that the main reason we aren't in 6th position is down to some individual errors that have cropped up this campaign. I don't want to mention injuries because most sides have their fare share.
The guy has been in charge for a year. That's not a long time at all to give for someone without significant managerial pedigree. He needs time, even if we lose the next match or the match after, BUT generally we have improved performances wise, and player for player are we better off than at the end of last season? That's surely a "yes."
At the end of the day after a 1-4 win there wasn't too much going on with pasoti, the same happened when we beat Morecombe, but when we lost to AFC Wimbledon it went mental and that's because posters are waiting to hit the "Fletcher's sh*te" button. That's easy. We're 18th. Yet my views on Fletch would be roughly the same even if we were 6th (check out the difference in points, not many) yet if we were 6th people would be hitting the "Fletcher is great button." That's a huge contrast in opinion. Too extreme for my liking.
You make valid points, which I'll read and address tomorrow when on my lappy.
One question though, yes he signed Chadders when we needed him. Why oh why did he sign him again in the summer? Surely there were better options? That's the point I was making about not learning and moving forward.
One question though, yes he signed Chadders when we needed him. Why oh why did he sign him again in the summer? Surely there were better options? That's the point I was making about not learning and moving forward.
N
newquaygreen
Guest
Troll or not it has brought out some interesting comments.
People seem attached to league position as an indicator when surely points would be better. The maths may make this impossible but I havn't got 3 days spare to try it but is finishing 15th 8 points off play-offs better or worse than 10th and 10 pts off the play-offs ???
This site is a different approach to tables based on number of pixels gap indicating points difference. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: (just Prem so far but still fun)
http://more.stevefitzpatrick.co.uk/a-ne ... gue-tables
People seem attached to league position as an indicator when surely points would be better. The maths may make this impossible but I havn't got 3 days spare to try it but is finishing 15th 8 points off play-offs better or worse than 10th and 10 pts off the play-offs ???
This site is a different approach to tables based on number of pixels gap indicating points difference. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: (just Prem so far but still fun)
http://more.stevefitzpatrick.co.uk/a-ne ... gue-tables
Having read through this thread, this is the moment I have decided to make my first post.
This season is a massive improvement from last season already. Last season we could hardly compete for the first half of it and then managed to pull off a couple of coups by signing seasoned pro's who all aided our survival. This season we have competed in every game and when I leave that front door on a Saturday morning at least I know there is a chance of a goal or two and a chance of a win! could that be the case last season?
I see that people like to barrack players like Chadwick, Purse and Wotton on here for various reasons but in reality they are here to help us overcome our short term survival and progression! all of these are not world beaters but they certainly played a big part in the clubs survival last season and give the current younger players advice and direction in what we are trying to do.
Fletcher has always been on a hiding to nothing when taking on this job but he seems to just crack on with it in his own way. I find it very hard to see how those saying he is/isn't up to the job base their opinions on?, we have never been in the situation that we found ourselves in last year so do we really have a solid base or past experience to judge what progress should have been made in the year or so he has been in charge?
I will not disrespect anybody of those views that have been given already but certainly do not agree with some of them.
This season is a massive improvement from last season already. Last season we could hardly compete for the first half of it and then managed to pull off a couple of coups by signing seasoned pro's who all aided our survival. This season we have competed in every game and when I leave that front door on a Saturday morning at least I know there is a chance of a goal or two and a chance of a win! could that be the case last season?
I see that people like to barrack players like Chadwick, Purse and Wotton on here for various reasons but in reality they are here to help us overcome our short term survival and progression! all of these are not world beaters but they certainly played a big part in the clubs survival last season and give the current younger players advice and direction in what we are trying to do.
Fletcher has always been on a hiding to nothing when taking on this job but he seems to just crack on with it in his own way. I find it very hard to see how those saying he is/isn't up to the job base their opinions on?, we have never been in the situation that we found ourselves in last year so do we really have a solid base or past experience to judge what progress should have been made in the year or so he has been in charge?
I will not disrespect anybody of those views that have been given already but certainly do not agree with some of them.
Mazza, you seem to have my opinion firmly in the bag. You are correct, that is my understanding. I do want us to win - every self respecting fan does. I go every week hoping for a win, but not expecting it. Now, perhaps this is due to my green tinted view of football, or perhaps I just got taken in by the pre-season hype from the Chairman, but I was under the impression that we would be challenging from the off. We are not. I feel a relegation dogfight coming on. We are a quarter of the way in and are 18th. Yes, yes, not far off the playoffs, but equally not far off the relegation zone.
To those who think we have started this season better than last, I would question this. Someone somewhere will be able to give me the points haul from the last 12 games last season versus the first 12 this. But it doesn't feel better. It feels like a retrograde step. Last season it was 11 men behind the ball and don't lose. This year it's pass it about a bit in our own half, if all else fails pass it back to Jake to loft a speculative ball towards Feeny/PCH/Griff/Chadders in the hope they get on the end of it. If they don't, then hope that we can dispossess the opposition before they get into our 'red' zone and score. Then it's back to more of the same.
All this babble above is just me waffling and really saying I'm still not convinced Fletcher is the manager for us.
With regard to the arrogance, this was what I was told when So'D was at HP. Fletch just wouldn't take his advice on board apparently. He is also quoted by Hourihane as being moody and sulky. This would fit with some of the more candid photos of him. There are none of him getting animated in the dugout. There are none of him with a beaming smile clapping the fans after a win. Speculation, I know, but smoke and fire and all that.
To those who think we have started this season better than last, I would question this. Someone somewhere will be able to give me the points haul from the last 12 games last season versus the first 12 this. But it doesn't feel better. It feels like a retrograde step. Last season it was 11 men behind the ball and don't lose. This year it's pass it about a bit in our own half, if all else fails pass it back to Jake to loft a speculative ball towards Feeny/PCH/Griff/Chadders in the hope they get on the end of it. If they don't, then hope that we can dispossess the opposition before they get into our 'red' zone and score. Then it's back to more of the same.
All this babble above is just me waffling and really saying I'm still not convinced Fletcher is the manager for us.
With regard to the arrogance, this was what I was told when So'D was at HP. Fletch just wouldn't take his advice on board apparently. He is also quoted by Hourihane as being moody and sulky. This would fit with some of the more candid photos of him. There are none of him getting animated in the dugout. There are none of him with a beaming smile clapping the fans after a win. Speculation, I know, but smoke and fire and all that.
A 4-1 win is nice but overall we still arent doing that well are we? I mean one of our ex managers up at Southend started with pretty much nothing and has achieved at least mid table respectability whilst the mob in red down the road are in a play off position on modest resources,...and we are a place below Dagenham who have hardly any fans and were scrapping with us against relegation last April.....As a rule I hate to see people shouting for the managers head every week, but our home form is dire and people are entitled to express their opinions when they pay good money and have seen one home in in five. Telling them to go and watch Saltash wont help the coffers at Home Park!! Beating a bottom three side away does not make us promotion contenders, neither are we quite as bad as we were at the start of last season or some make out after each defeat. For me however, the jury is still out on our manager until we get some consistency, i.e. win a few home games and stop swinging from the depths of despair one week to absolute optimism the next!!!....
Bezza":1dkhopkc said:
I've supported Argyle for 45 years and it wouldn't be the same without that :lol: :lol: