Simon Hallett's explanation of yesterday's investment news. | Page 2 | PASOTI
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Simon Hallett's explanation of yesterday's investment news.

Apr 1, 2009
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I'm not so sure. With a NHL connection in the investors, what if they partner JB or buy out his interest and build the ice rink, maybe with a hotel or other commercial add ons? A proper ice rink would be massively popular commercially, as JB identified we have no near competition for it. I've heard PCC are very keen for it to be done and release the Pavillions for redevelopment. We could have a Ice Hockey team affiliated to Argyle, maybe with the same branding. coyg
An Ice Rink might (or might not) be popular, but is it really a profitable enterprise? This project has been on the table for a long time, and the fact that nothing has materialised strongly suggests commercial projections do not add up. With current building costs escalating, that's not going to change any time soon.
 
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Jannerz

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An Ice Rink might (or might not) be popular, but is it really a profitable enterprise? This project has been on the table for a long time, and the fact that nothing has materialised strongly suggests commercial projections do not add up. With current building costs escalating, that's not going to change any time soon.
Maybe you missed my next post when I said, honestly, I have no idea if it's commercially viable. The only tentative link is our investor and the NHL. I'm putting a 'what if' out there. What's your theory? On reflection, £4m wouldn't be enough for that kind of development, on top of a new training facility and other infrastructure projects. coyg
 
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Apr 1, 2009
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Maybe you missed my next post when I said, honestly, I have no idea if it's commercially viable. The only tentative link is our investor and the NHL. I'm putting a 'what if' out there. What's your theory? On reflection, £4m wouldn't be enough for that kind of development, on top of a new training facility and other infrastructure projects. coyg
My theory is that the Ice Rink won't happen. If it was a money spinner, it would have happened by now. I think the NHL connection amongst our investors is a red herring. Ice Hockey is big business in the States, but that's not the case over here.
 
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Thought JB had to build the Ice Rink as part of the pavilions development. Sure it was a stipulated in the deal.
 
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Jannerz

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Thought JB had to build the Ice Rink as part of the pavilions development. Sure it was a stipulated in the deal.
That's what I thought, and I'd read somewhere recently, PCC are pushing him to get it done. I don't know if it's commercially viable and I wouldn't trust PCC's judgement on that either. coyg
 
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Bryan Tregunna

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Perhaps there's a plan to build the ice rink and build an ice hockey team? The Plymouth Argyles?
 
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Always thought a hotel would be a good addition to Home Park and maybe when away teams come down to pay us they could stay there instead of other hotels in Plymouth and by doing that it’s more money in Argyles bank
A hotel isn’t too difficult to sort out or at least it wasn’t at Upton Park. Went to function there once and stayed over. The rooms were the corporate boxes and the double bed just folded back into the wall. I think the wardrobe was behind louvered shutters. Not sure whether that’s achievable at Home Park?
 

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That's what I thought, and I'd read somewhere recently, PCC are pushing him to get it done. I don't know if it's commercially viable and I wouldn't trust PCC's judgement on that either. coyg
I don't think PCC's judgement comes into it really. They sold the Pavilions site to James Brent at a certain price on the understanding that he would build a replacement ice rink facility somewhere in the city BEFORE he developed the existing one into something else and they won't really care if it is financially viable to build this or not, they have passed that liability to James Brent.

But, obviously, James Brent does not seem to have access to the funds he would need to do the development. He does have a suitable piece of land though.

The only way that I can see this situation being resolved would be for Brent to sell that plot of land to someone who DOES have the money to build on it and who can take over his commitment to build an ice rink. Now... the obvious purchase of his land up at Home Park is the football club and, I expect, the football club would be pretty keen on owning that piece of land because it could resolve issues around office space and be home to additional facilities that would bring in new revenue and complement the existing Home Park conference and entertainment capability. It is VERY easy to imagine a scenario in which the club buys the land from Brent and builds some kind of mixed use sports and leisure facility including the necessary ice rink. But to do this it needs cash to i) pay for the land and ii) fund the development (or enable borrowing to fund the development). If only the club had access to a pot of money to get things started and potential access to a bigger pot of money to make the development happen. Oh, wait a minute...
 

Jannerz

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I don't think PCC's judgement comes into it really. They sold the Pavilions site to James Brent at a certain price on the understanding that he would build a replacement ice rink facility somewhere in the city BEFORE he developed the existing one into something else and they won't really care if it is financially viable to build this or not, they have passed that liability to James Brent.

But, obviously, James Brent does not seem to have access to the funds he would need to do the development. He does have a suitable piece of land though.

The only way that I can see this situation being resolved would be for Brent to sell that plot of land to someone who DOES have the money to build on it and who can take over his commitment to build an ice rink. Now... the obvious purchase of his land up at Home Park is the football club and, I expect, the football club would be pretty keen on owning that piece of land because it could resolve issues around office space and be home to additional facilities that would bring in new revenue and complement the existing Home Park conference and entertainment capability. It is VERY easy to imagine a scenario in which the club buys the land from Brent and builds some kind of mixed use sports and leisure facility including the necessary ice rink. But to do this it needs cash to i) pay for the land and ii) fund the development (or enable borrowing to fund the development). If only the club had access to a pot of money to get things started and potential access to a bigger pot of money to make the development happen. Oh, wait a minute...
That is actually my line of thinking, and I was being devils advocate regarding PCC (if you've seen my previous post). It would by the same token be irresponsible and unethical of them to compell a developer to build something that isn't commercially viable (hence why I think they must think it is). I agree with you, if it is built at all, it's more likely to be in a mixed commercial space with something else. There seems to be a range of thinking on here, from it'll never happen, to what's the point of an ice rink..to it's possible. I'm currently sitting on the possible end of the spectrum, but time will tell. Whatever happens I'm sure Hallett and Co have done their research and maths. coyg
 
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That is actually my line of thinking, and I was being devils advocate regarding PCC (if you've seen my previous post). It would by the same token be irresponsible and unethical of them to compell a developer to build something that isn't commercially viable (hence why I think they must think it is). I agree with you, if it is built at all, it's more likely to be in a mixed commercial space with something else. There seems to be a range of thinking on here, from it'll never happen, to what's the point of an ice rink..to it's possible. I'm currently sitting on the possible end of the spectrum, but time will tell. Whatever happens I'm sure Hallett and Co have done their research and maths. coyg
Yep - the more I think about it the more a mixed use commercial development at Higher Home Park makes sense - and a hotel could easily be a part of it. I would suggest sorting out the final phase of the Mayflower may also be part of this - even Bobby's Garden. (For me I struggle to see Argyle Green's money going towards training facilities and the like - I just can't see how they would secure a return on their investment).

So Simon has clearly been working on this for a long time - he even gets the key player over to Home Park last March to show him around the real estate. He then ensures that the surrounding site is tidied up - and that it can blend in/complement such a development. All done. He then persuades Argyle Green to invest in PAFC as a first step to creating a very interesting new future. All done.

But our new investors will want a return - despite SH's persuasive skills they do not have the green blood that runs through Simon and the rest of us. They invest the £4M to enable the "project" to get off the ground - enabling PAFC to start the planning and procurement process. Once build ready then perhaps PAFC do the full development on their own with further investment - but how do Argyle Green get a return if done this way?

Perhaps Stage 2 is some form of joint venture established with PAFC as a major shareholder with Argyle Green LLC providing the rest of it? Or even a James Brent involvement? (Either way that approach allows PAFC and Argyle Green to both secure a return and own a tradeable asset. And allows PAFC to be protected in the way that SH is so keen to see).

Who knows - but Simon is a very clever and influential businessman. And luckily for us he does seem very keen to protect the legacy that we all love so much, Apologies for an old chaps musings - but I really do find all of this very exciting!
 

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I would imagine eventually more money will roll in with these new people and we will see a new Grandstand with a hotel incorporated behind it, maybe there will be bigger rooms for events, I don't think we will see or certainly now need an ice rink.
I think the money men are somewhere linked with his American work somewhere along the line and he has suggested Argyle could be a possible Premier League team in the near future and the money will return to them in bundles!