North Macedonia vs England

[Cobi Budge]

I’ve just seen the Ukraine penalty shout, I mean a shout is probably the wrong word, that is a stonewall penalty, as clear as it gets. A howler of a decision that has probably cost Ukraine a place at the Euro’s. The inconsistency of VAR is staggering.

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticFC/status/1726717770816188920

 

[Mexijan1]

We’re going to go into the Euro’s with probably the joint best squad in the world but with no chance of winning the thing because of the man in the dugout. Depressing.

I really don't get this fantastic squad thing I started watching England early 80's first real WC memory is 78, England failed to qualify for second time running with a pretty good squad, Archie Gemmill scored a worldie. This current squad has some promising youngsters but bar Kane none would get in my lifetimes best England x11 and Shearer/Owen would push him hard but Harry gets it not just on goals but over all play. Southgate took over England at one of it's lowest points and is 2nd in most winning manager and delivered semi finals and finals in major tournaments during his tenure. If Southgate is depressing trust me previous managers had me suicidal

 

[Cobi Budge]

I really don't get this fantastic squad thing I started watching England early 80's first real WC memory is 78, England failed to qualify for second time running with a pretty good squad, Archie Gemmill scored a worldie. This current squad has some promising youngsters but bar Kane none would get in my lifetimes best England x11 and Shearer/Owen would push him hard but Harry gets it not just on goals but over all play. Southgate took over England at one of it's lowest points and is 2nd in most winning manager and delivered semi finals and finals in major tournaments during his tenure. If Southgate is depressing trust me previous managers had me suicidal

Respectfully I have to disagree.

Southgate has the best or joint best CF in the world in Harry Kane.
He has Foden & Grealish, two fine attacking players who play regularly for the best team in the world.
He has Jude Bellingham who is on a trajectory to become the next Messi or Ronaldo.
He has Bukayo Saka, who impresses constantly for club and country.
He has solid enough defensive midfielders in Rice, Phillips and Henderson.
He has a serial winner of a RB in Kyle Walker.
He has a world class CB in John Stones.
He has two very good LB’s (when fit) in Luke Shaw and Ben Chilwell.

Then he’s got a strong supporting cast with the likes of TAA, Watkins, Rashford, Gallagher, Konsa, Palmer, Trippier etc etc.

For me, we have the joint best squad in the world alongside France. The next two tournaments are the best chance we’ve had since 1966 to win something.

Southgate has done well in terms of bringing about a togetherness that was lacking under previous managers, but he isn’t the manager who is going to take us from being plucky losers to being winners.

 

[pastiesforlife]

I’ve just seen the Ukraine penalty shout, I mean a shout is probably the wrong word, that is a stonewall penalty, as clear as it gets. A howler of a decision that has probably cost Ukraine a place at the Euro’s. The inconsistency of VAR is staggering.

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticFC/status/1726717770816188920

Don’t think it even went to VAR.

 

[Cobi Budge]

Don’t think it even went to VAR.

But the one against England did, for perhaps the softest ‘foul’ I’ve ever seen. The inconsistency is either being caused by serious incompetence or serious corruption.

 

[unhinched]

Gareth Southgate has set a target for England to get to no 1 in the World rankings.
The best teams don't count wins, but rather look to win what counts.
They don't get off on world rankings, but winning tournaments.

In rugby how often do / did you hear Ireland banging on about being no1 in the world rankings - they have never reached a semi-final. Do you think 4 time winners SA care about rankings ?- they let the trophies be their judge.

Sorry if that's harsh on Gareth but, even harsher, it reflects on our increasingly 'we're all winners' sporting culture. Argentina ( 6 finals , 3 wins) won the last world cup largely due to their mentality. ( Not that I like them). They value winning more I reckon.

 

[memory man]

I really don't get this fantastic squad thing I started watching England early 80's first real WC memory is 78, England failed to qualify for second time running with a pretty good squad, Archie Gemmill scored a worldie. This current squad has some promising youngsters but bar Kane none would get in my lifetimes best England x11 and Shearer/Owen would push him hard but Harry gets it not just on goals but over all play. Southgate took over England at one of it's lowest points and is 2nd in most winning manager and delivered semi finals and finals in major tournaments during his tenure. If Southgate is depressing trust me previous managers had me suicidal

Would be interested in seeing your 'lifetime's best England XI'. Would make a really good thread for this forum.

 

[Cobi Budge]

Gareth Southgate has set a target for England to get to no 1 in the World rankings.
The best teams don't count wins, but rather look to win what counts.
They don't get off on world rankings, but winning tournaments.

In rugby how often do / did you hear Ireland banging on about being no1 in the world rankings - they have never reached a semi-final. Do you think 4 time winners SA care about rankings ?- they let the trophies be their judge.

Sorry if that's harsh on Gareth but, even harsher, it reflects on our increasingly 'we're all winners' sporting culture. Argentina ( 6 finals , 3 wins) won the last world cup largely due to their mentality. ( Not that I like them). They value winning more I reckon.

Absolutely.

Southgate has always had a sort of “we’re just happy to be here” mentality when it comes to tournaments, PR optics seem to matter more to him and the FA than winning, I mean that’s fine when you’re Austria or Slovakia or whoever, but not when you have one of the best or arguably the best squad in the world.

 

[Mexijan1]

Respectfully I have to disagree.

Southgate has the best or joint best CF in the world in Harry Kane.
He has Foden & Grealish, two fine attacking players who play regularly for the best team in the world.
He has Jude Bellingham who is on a trajectory to become the next Messi or Ronaldo.
He has Bukayo Saka, who impresses constantly for club and country.
He has solid enough defensive midfielders in Rice, Phillips and Henderson.
He has a serial winner of a RB in Kyle Walker.
He has a world class CB in John Stones.
He has two very good LB’s (when fit) in Luke Shaw and Ben Chilwell.

Then he’s got a strong supporting cast with the likes of TAA, Watkins, Rashford, Gallagher, Konsa, Palmer, Trippier etc etc.

For me, we have the joint best squad in the world alongside France. The next two tournaments are the best chance we’ve had since 1966 to win something.

Southgate has done well in terms of bringing about a togetherness that was lacking under previous managers, but he isn’t the manager who is going to take us from being plucky losers to being winners.

GK Shilton owns Pickford and my memory stretches to Banks completely different level
RB - I rate Walker but will raise you Neville or Phil Neal
lB - Cole best lb in his time or Psycho
CB - Worst we have had in my lifetime.. Thompson, Butcher, Campbell, Ferdinand, Adams and all could probably get a spot now. Double edit Des Walker tough as nails with pace to burn plus a classy passing boot.
CDM - Robson, Gerrard, Batty, Scholes, McMahon
ATM- lampard, Gascoigne, Hoddle, leTissier, Macmannam, Mr Posh Spice...edit Forgot Barnes
CF - Shearer, Sherringham, Owen, Keegan

Don't get me wrong the current squad is good and has massive potential but Fodden and Grealish aren't shoe ins for MC plus Phillips career has been killed. CB are worst we havehad for years, Only Kane for me in this group is special and we have had that before. Still think we have had as good if not better squads who have way underperformed more than DS teams have.

 

[Mexijan1]

Would be interested in seeing your 'lifetime's best England XI'. Would make a really good thread for this forum.

Just for you buddy Was typing it before I saw your reply

 

[Mexijan1]

OMG missed one of our own a certain Mr Trevor Francis wasn't half bad

 

[Joe Totale]

The great teams have a great spine. I'm not convinced this England team has a good spine.
Currently it's:

- Bang average keeper
- One decent centre back who does his best work in midfield (Stones) and one centre back who's not good enough
- One good holding midfielder (Rice) and one who isn't good enough
- A world class striker

In terms of squads, I feel it's overhyped. The 2004 Euros team was better IMO and they won nothing:

England in the European Championship - 2004 Squad Records

www.englandfootballonline.com

Keepers - Pickford and James, similar

Right Back - Neville better defensively, Walker better going forward
Centre Backs - Terry and Campbell are far, far better than Stones and Maguire
Left Back - Cole much better than Shaw/Chilwell

Centre Mid - Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard/Hargreaves (A Bayern Munich regular at the time) much better than Rice/Henderson/Phillips.

Beckham and Saka is a draw right now but Saka does have great potential

Bellingham is currently in a similar position in his career to where Rooney was at 18

With hindsight Kane is better than Owen but don't forget that Owen had won the Ballon d'or 3 years previous, something Kane hasn't been close to winning.

 

[Daz]

The great teams have a great spine. I'm not convinced this England team has a good spine.
Currently it's:

- Bang average keeper
- One decent centre back who does his best work in midfield (Stones) and one centre back who's not good enough
- One good holding midfielder (Rice) and one who isn't good enough
- A world class striker

In terms of squads, I feel it's overhyped. The 2004 Euros team was better IMO and they won nothing:

England in the European Championship - 2004 Squad Records

www.englandfootballonline.com

Keepers - Pickford and James, similar

Right Back - Neville better defensively, Walker better going forward
Centre Backs - Terry and Campbell are far, far better than Stones and Maguire
Left Back - Cole much better than Shaw/Chilwell

Centre Mid - Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard/Hargreaves (A Bayern Munich regular at the time) much better than Rice/Henderson/Phillips.

Beckham and Saka is a draw right now but Saka does have great potential

Bellingham is currently in a similar position in his career to where Rooney was at 18

With hindsight Kane is better than Owen but don't forget that Owen had won the Ballon d'or 3 years previous, something Kane hasn't been close to winning.

You missed out the current best player in the world in Jude Bellingham.

 

[Joe Totale]

You missed out the current best player in the world in Jude Bellingham.

Kylian Mbappe wants a word

Anyway, Bellingham is a world class attacking player but doesn't change that the keeper, 1 centre back and 1 holding midfielder in the starting 11 are not good enough.

Bellingham has been so good for Real Madrid as he has such a solid midfield base behind him, he doesn't have that with England.

 

[Emu]

You'll get a few months off England games now. Although we finished 6 points ahead of Italy, which seems decent effort.

Pedestrian performance though. Easy to blame Southgate but, to be fair he selected an adventurous looking line-up with Foden, Alexander Arnold, Grealish, Saka all starters.

Saka? He would start in any England team.