Goal tally (after two new coaches arrive)

[MGM]

We conceded 80 plus goals last season.

The problems were already there.

Imagine taking someone like Wilson. We can mostly all agree a better defender than what we had last season. Then ask him, a guy who’s probably played 4ATB version of a formation most of his career, to play in a 3ATB system. Suddenly as a right sided centre back of the 3 you are in areas of the pitch a full back would normally be. Centre backs hate playing against pace. Now your asking that centre back to expose himself in a wide postion.

We are trying to take good defenders who success is in a 4ATB system and ask them to play in a 3ATB which exposes them.

l bet if you watched Watts recently when in the league games he played the last two in a 4ATB system that he looks a different player to the one we saw exposed constantly.

 

[vibratingspider]

We conceded 80 plus goals last season.

The problems were already there.

If the problems were already there, how do you explain our relative success in this campaign before Christmas? I don't disagree with you at all, for the record, and I'd personally put a lot of our current issues down to the lack of Mr Galloway. His injury (during the 3-0 defeat by Wycombe) coincides exactly with our downturn in form. Since losing him (and including him in the Wycombe defeat, since he left the field at 0-0), we've won 2, drawn 2 and lost 5. Before that, we'd lost 2 in 18.

To be clear - I'm not saying that's the only reason - losing our manager may well have had an impact too!

 

[MGM]

If the problems were already there, how do you explain our relative success in this campaign before Christmas? I don't disagree with you at all, for the record, and I'd personally put a lot of our current issues down to the lack of Mr Galloway. His injury (during the 3-0 defeat by Wycombe) coincides exactly with our downturn in form. Since losing him (and including him in the Wycombe defeat, since he left the field at 0-0), we've won 2, drawn 2 and lost 5. Before that, we'd lost 2 in 18.

To be clear - I'm not saying that's the only reason - losing our manager may well have had an impact too!

For me l think having a forward scoring like Hardie did earlier in the season takes the pressure off the defence. Suddenly, without that significant contribution your short of goals, as other areas of the pitch aren’t contributing enough, and you under pressure.

We are always giving the opposition opportunities to score. The difference is if you are scoring at the other end freely it changes the mentality of the game.

Last year was similar. Jephcott was banging them in during our good run. When that stopped. We struggled.

We do have more experienced defenders so that does help. l agree Galloway was a big loss.

 

[Biggs]

I've ONLY just felt able to watch the goals, as it's still too frustrating. And I hate to get on a player's back after two games, but that is two games and two fairly sloppy bits of defending at crucial times from Crichlow.

His first contribution was to sloppily pass it to Fleetwood in his own third too, let's hope things get better for him from now on in.

 

[up the line]

For me l think having a forward scoring like Hardie did earlier in the season takes the pressure off the defence. Suddenly, without that significant contribution your short of goals, as other areas of the pitch aren’t contributing enough, and you under pressure.

We are always giving the opposition opportunities to score. The difference is if you are scoring at the other end freely it changes the mentality of the game.

Last year was similar. Jephcott was banging them in during our good run. When that stopped. We struggled.

We do have more experienced defenders so that does help. l agree Galloway was a big loss.

I don't follow.
We scored 2 at Sheffield Wednesday and 3 at Fleetwood. Should be enough to have taken more than a point from those matches.

For me it's very simple. The defence, indeed the side as a whole has been a rotating door for the last few weeks with players in and out through injury. It's the players coming in actually apart from the strikers (who have, to a man, including Agard, contributed goals when required), haven't done well enough. Gillesphie as a replacement for Galloway wasn't performing as well (although was gradually improving).
Now Critchlow as a replacement for Galloway AND Gillesphie is (albeit in a very short period) not performing well enough.
Bolton as a replacement for Wilson had a good game at Birmingham but was by accounts poor at Hillsborough .
Randell has shown some good stuff as a replacement for Houghton, but does he offer the same defensive screening capability?
And, pitchforks at the ready for me here, Broom has come in for Mayor and not contributed enough over 2 games.

It's the strikers who have come in for Hardie, who by comparison, have all chipped in. Jephcott 2 in 2, Garrick has been a handful and provided 2 assists last night. Ennis comes on and scores. I'm not sure the absence of Hardie has been any part of the problem at all based on the above.

 

[MGM]

The coaches weren’t here for Lincoln, Portsmouth, Sunderland or Oxford away.

We conceded sloppy goals in those games.

People have to get use to the 3ATB system will leave us exposed. The only way we can get the system to work better is by keeping the ball better (then the opposition have it less) and creating/scoring more opportunities as a forward unit.

With a 3ATB you going to leave gaps for opposition to exploit.

 

[MGM]

I don't follow.
We scored 2 at Sheffield Wednesday and 3 at Fleetwood. Should be enough to have taken more than a point from those matches.

lm taking in general, not just this month. You look at the batch of games Jephcott & Hardie score in. Then look at our results. Even in those games we threw away results eg Portsmouth last season away when Jephcott got two goals.

l just feel, in general, if a forward isn’t scoring regularly then the pressure on the players is far greater because we don’t have other players (in other areas of the team) who score consistently. And as we play an open, exposed formation the defensive unit gets criticism when we don’t win but it does go unnoticed how exposed we are when we do win.

The point you highlighted for the last few games is correct. It should have been enough. It was also poor defending.

 

[mutley marvel]

Unless we keep the backdoor shut- the amount of goals we score per game could mean diddly squat if yesterdays capitulation is anything to go by
I dread to think how Donny on Saturday is going to pan out especially if they score
Clean sheets breeds confidence & at this current moment in time the confidence that was once in abundance is slowing ebbing away to a pattern of rinse repeat
Surely the priority after the last 3 games is to get back to basics in regard to defending crosses & corner kicks
Schuey has mentioned this in is post match interviews- now lets see if he & his team can put this right before it is to late

 

[damon.green]

If the problems were already there, how do you explain our relative success in this campaign before Christmas? I don't disagree with you at all, for the record, and I'd personally put a lot of our current issues down to the lack of Mr Galloway. His injury (during the 3-0 defeat by Wycombe) coincides exactly with our downturn in form. Since losing him (and including him in the Wycombe defeat, since he left the field at 0-0), we've won 2, drawn 2 and lost 5. Before that, we'd lost 2 in 18.

To be clear - I'm not saying that's the only reason - losing our manager may well have had an impact too! Watching

At the time, I felt that Galloway's injury could be a season-defining moment. This unfortunately appears to be the case.

 

[gaspargomez]

I have commented on another thread about the lack of management experience at Argyle. Schumacher has never managed a team previously and Mark Hughes has never really coached before. Keith Downing only has a very small amount of (unsuccessful) club management and has mainly worked with kids (which doesn't really count in my book). Dewsnip was a schoolteacher who also has a background of coaching kids rather than men's football. I don't even think he has played professionally.

The goalkeeping coach is another one who didn't have much background in playing professional football. Nancekivell, having a non-league background, appears to be the most experienced coach on the books.

I am a bit concerned about the appointment of Downing AND Hughes. I may be reading too much into this, but was Downing the choice of Dewsnip rathwer than Schumaker ? Was the manager being undermined ? If so, it may explain why Argyle appoint Hughes a few days later- which would have appeared to have been Schumaker's own choice.

I have never known so many first-team coaches at Argyle. Too many cooks spoil the broth.
It must be costing the club a fortune in wages as well.

 

[MGM]

I've ONLY just felt able to watch the goals, as it's still too frustrating. And I hate to get on a player's back after two games, but that is two games and two fairly sloppy bits of defending at crucial times from Crichlow.

His first contribution was to sloppily pass it to Fleetwood in his own third too, let's hope things get better for him from now on in.

l read your post and it made me think how l react once it went to 3-3.

Maybe this is my own fault, but l wasn’t as angry or upset, and the only reason l can think of is that l’ve seen it happen now too many times for it to be a ”wtf, how did that happen moment”.

Which for my part makes me feel bad as I should be feeling that same level of frustration you feel. It just feels too familiar.

l feel sorry for Schumacher. Everyone is pointing the finger at his tactical subs or at his coaches but this is an issue he inherited. This issue is oil tanker size and you don’t turn a problem that size around overnight. As the last few games have proved.

 

[MGM]

The question surely isn’t about our recent defensive sloppiness.

It should be have these coaches every coached teams consistently to play 3ATB systems?

The problem maybe they are adjusting to our system and where as Hughes, for example, has coached Rovers in a 4ATB system it maybe he will need a lengthy period of time to adjust.

This is a bit out of the box suggestion, but maybe Argyle could of looked abroad for a successful coaching assistant (along with Crichley) who has developed a team under a 3ATB system. This could of helped Schumacher’s inexperience but also helped individual players with their roles.

 

[djg145]

l read your post and it made me think how l react once it went to 3-3.

Maybe this is my own fault, but l wasn’t as angry or upset, and the only reason l can think of is that l’ve seen it happen now too many times for it to be a ”wtf, how did that happen moment”.

Which for my part makes me feel bad as I should be feeling that same level of frustration you feel. It just feels too familiar.

l feel sorry for Schumacher. Everyone is pointing the finger at his tactical subs or at his coaches but this is an issue he inherited. This issue is oil tanker size and you don’t turn a problem that size around overnight. As the last few games have proved.

Not EVERYONE is pointing the finger, just a few, who think they know everything and maybe they should seek employment at a football club.
So fickle some are at 3:1 we were the best, we had great players, then 3:3 those same players were crap. Every team goes through a wobble during the season. The management/ coaches and players have Covid and injuries to contend with. None of us know how this affects training, especially with Covid. Soon no doubt we will have suspension thrown into the mix.
It's a funny old game, you have ups and you have downs, enjoy the ride.

 

[MGM]

Not EVERYONE is pointing the finger, just a few, who think they know everything and maybe they should seek employment at a football club.
So fickle some are at 3:1 we were the best, we had great players, then 3:3 those same players were crap. Every team goes through a wobble during the season. The management/ coaches and players have Covid and injuries to contend with. None of us know how this affects training, especially with Covid. Soon no doubt we will have suspension thrown into the mix.
It's a funny old game, you have ups and you have downs, enjoy the ride.

l was talking about a reaction during match.

I haven’t blamed the manager or the coaches. The players have to take responsibility for the sloppy goals. Yet for the reasons stated in other posts l do feel some sympathy for them.

People post opinions about a football team they love. It’s got nothing to do with someone knowing more than someone else. That’s just an ego trip. I honestly can’t be bothered with that. l cant speak for other people though.

Thats why l reply to people who have differing views to myself. It’s about debate and in fact, learning still about football as other fans see things l can’t see.

For example, people who love Danny Mayor. I listen to these people who rate him, like up the line, because it brings a different view point about him.

 

[jimsing]

In the last three games we have conceded nine goals and scored five,I think conceding nine in three games you are not expected to collect any points on the other hand scoring five you wouldn’t expect to be dropping many points. This latest goals against tally coincides with the arrival of two new coaches ,is this coincidence or reality.

The defensive coach may be trying to change they way they play to a better system, and they are bedding in the new system.

Give them a chance, ffs.