Acceptance of mediocrity

[Dan Ellard]

John, I'll read your post properly and reply to it properly later when I'm not at work, but it seems to me that you had overly high expectations and you are basing most of your arguments on speculation and supposition. I do agree with some of what you say though.

I disagree - he is basing it on facts - it is a fact that we have larger attendances than most and a larger budget than most in this league. It's not arrogant to say that we should be high up in this division.

I like many would have taken mid-table this season, a solid foundation to build upon next year, and it would have been nice to not be down near the bottom for the first time since 2008! But as John says, we're 7 points off mid-table and 3 points clear of the bottom - unless something changes it is yet another relegation scrap for us.

 

[PAFC+]

It should Andy, but you and I both know it's not as simple as that with 5 years of historical debt hanging over our shoulders.

What are these debts hanging over us and holding us back exactly? Genuine question. I know the staff are owed, but as far as I understand it that has been realistically budgeted for over a long period, and will be accelerated with unbudgeted income, i.e. a cup run (fat chance!)

But the rest has been effectively wiped. For example, Lombard got £700k of their £2.1m, and under the CVA Mastpoint got about £4k of their £2.1, and the the council got a measley £655 of their £300k.

I'm genuinely interested to know because I keep hearing the 'historical debt' bandied about as an excuse when I just don't know what other debts remain or how it makes much difference at all.

Great posts John Petrie, sums up my views perfectly.

 

[Nobby]

I'm accepting mediocrity for ONE season while we get back onto our feet and get the club running with some stability. I'm more than happy with mid-table this year, not because i'm accepting mediocrity but because i'm realistic.

Next year however, I expect us to be a lot higher.

Mid table? We're two points off relegation. Torquay are mid table.

The season ends in May, by which point, I think we'll be mid-table.

 

[Andy Holland]

My problem with that, Nobby, is that you don't appear to be basing it on anything other than blind hope.

I don't knock you for being optimistic, we could all do with a bit more of that. However, I just can't fathom how from what we've seen this season you can honestly believe we're headed for anything other than a bottom 5 finish if things don't change. We've had a handful of decent performances, never for an entire game, only in patches. We're constantly conceding shabby goals from setpieces we consistently don't know how to defend, and playing people out of position and persisting with strikers who won't score 10 goals between them all season.

 

[Kevin Dacombe]

I would love to accept some mediocrity, unfortunately at the moment we are far worse than mediocre.

 

[Mr Smith]

This time last year I dreamed of mediocrity. You can't just decide what the clubs been through shouldn't matter any more because you've had enough. I expect us to be between the bottom-mid of this league until the debts cleared.

 

[Cerbera]

I'm accepting mediocrity for ONE season while we get back onto our feet and get the club running with some stability. I'm more than happy with mid-table this year, not because i'm accepting mediocrity but because i'm realistic.

Next year however, I expect us to be a lot higher.

Mid table? We're two points off relegation. Torquay are mid table.

The season ends in May, by which point, I think we'll be mid-table.

Honest question, do you truly believe that we will be mid table if we keep Fletcher and his coaching set up?

 

[Mr Smith]

This time last year I dreamed of mediocrity. You can't just decide what the clubs been through shouldn't matter any more because you've had enough. I expect us to be between the bottom-mid of this league until the debts cleared.

Why?

The debt levels don't affect our playing budget. Our wage budget is capped at 55% of our turnover which, this season, has allowed us to have a budget more than double that of Exeter City, an average sized club at this level. Taking this into account, why does the debt matter?

Should the fact that the club has historical debt, like most clubs, mean that the size of our playing budget being twice that of other clubs should be ignored? Is the debt a psychological barrier to managers and players? I honestly don't understand the argument here.

I've not seen anything to say the club debt doesn't affect our playing budget, why wouldn't it?

Even if we do have a higher playing budget than exeter(link?), this doesn't instantly give us a better squad than a team that have just come down from league 1. They also haven't had to start from scratch. I'm not saying Fletcher hasn't made some duff signings, he has. But the scale of financial advantage were talking about here (if real) takes a few seasons to balance out.

It's not like we can just pay transfer fees and just get the actual players needed.

 

[Nobby]

I'm accepting mediocrity for ONE season while we get back onto our feet and get the club running with some stability. I'm more than happy with mid-table this year, not because i'm accepting mediocrity but because i'm realistic.

Next year however, I expect us to be a lot higher.

Mid table? We're two points off relegation. Torquay are mid table.

The season ends in May, by which point, I think we'll be mid-table.

Honest question, do you truly believe that we will be mid table if we keep Fletcher and his coaching set up?

Yes, see below.

My problem with that, Nobby, is that you don't appear to be basing it on anything other than blind hope.

I don't knock you for being optimistic, we could all do with a bit more of that. However, I just can't fathom how from what we've seen this season you can honestly believe we're headed for anything other than a bottom 5 finish if things don't change. We've had a handful of decent performances, never for an entire game, only in patches. We're constantly conceding shabby goals from setpieces we consistently don't know how to defend, and playing people out of position and persisting with strikers who won't score 10 goals between them all season.

I'll start off by being 100% honest, I haven't been to every game this season, home or away. I've been to six home games not including the shambles of Wimbledon & two on the road (Barnet & Torquay).

From what I've seen, I believe we have enough quality about us to finish mid-table. The football we have played has been an improvement on last year (even though it is currently not delivering results) and I think our squad is stronger than last year also.

The big disappointment has been our defending. It's a complete reverse of the solid, resilient defence we saw last year with the exception of Berry. This is partly down to the fact we haven't had a settled defence all season, due to Purse's injuries, Williams injuries (although that's no loss) and Berry missed the first few too.

However, going forward I think we look a lot better. From the games I have seen, I don't think we've looked like we are incapable of scoring. Gurrieri and Cowan-Hall are good additions, particularly the latter & Griffiths for me looks decent. I certainly don't by into this myth that he can't control the ball.

I haven't seen a lot of players out of position, with the exception of Macca. However, I don't see the problem with playing a striker out wide if we have good strikers anyway, which in Madjo and Griffiths I think we do. What I do disagree with is having Chadwick up front when we could use PCH or Macca there. Even Feeney should be ahead of Chadwick.

In every game I've seen, I don't think we've been convincingly beaten in any, we've competed and we've deserved more in the majority of games. But it's time to start delivering results, instead of deserving them.

A lot of players are continuing to improve, in particular Hourihane, Nelson, Berry & Lowry. They're getting better with every game and we're building a strong and competent core to our side.

The recent run of fixtures has been very tough, we've got out of the way three of the hardest games we'll have all season and we got a point off the league leaders, by all accounts would have been worthy of a point at Bradford last night and at Fleetwood we were poo. Burton we were let down by two uncharacteristic goalkeeping errors, which is no excuse I know, but it doesn't help.

The above is quite brief, but i'm posting from my phone, so i'm sure you can excuse that. But overall I'm of the belief keeping Fletcher will give us stability and help us to build a tight squad that will continue to improve and with strengthening in January/Summer, will be in a position to challenge next year. At the same time I can understand everyone's frustrations with our current situation and just like the rest of you, i'm not happy about it, I just don't believe sacking the manager is the answer. It's more a sign of impatience. I can see it now that if we brought in a new manager and went down, some would argue "It's not his fault, he had to pick up Fletcher's squad who weren't doing well and not good enough" (i'm not pointing any fingers).

Fletcher built this squad, Fletcher has transformed our style of football to something that would suit us going up the leagues which is what our aim in the long term is and i'm still confident he can bring the best out of the players.

Some blind hope in there yes, but even those doom-mongerers who once again think relegation is nailed on are saying that out of blind negativity.

I'm formulating my opinion based on what I have seen and nothing else and I think we are better than a number of teams in this league, we're just massively inconsistent and on a really poor run of form through a tough run of fixtures.

 

[Cerbera]

Exeter have lost quite a few players since relegation. All of them decent. Not all moved to L1 clubs. Nardiello is at Rotherham for example (okay bad choice perhaps). James Brent himself told me our playing budget was more than twice Exeter's . I had already been told from an Exeter source that their budget was £800k, JB also mentioned this figure with me not prompting him.

I think it is taken as read that we have a decent sized playing budget and Exeter don't have anything special. For example, do you believe that Cureton and Gow are on some astronomical wages? We'll probably never know, but they are probably on less than Purse and Wotton.

 

[Cerbera]

Nobby, thanks for the considered reply. I believe we have the squad of players for a top ten finish. I don't believe we have the manager or coaching staff with enough nouse to get them there. There are too many squad changes (some brought about by injury, agreed) but some just plain weird. The obvious example of 'plain weird' playing Chawick of the concrete boots before Madjo.

 

[Ade the green]

Nobby, thanks for the considered reply. I believe we have the squad of players for a top ten finish. I don't believe we have the manager or coaching staff with enough nouse to get them there. There are too many squad changes (some brought about by injury, agreed) but some just plain weird. The obvious example of 'plain weird' playing Chawick of the concrete boots before Madjo.

Didn't someone say Mad Joe had a heavy cold or flu last Saturday and if so wouldn't that have ruled him out on Tuesday. I do hope that is the case because if Chadwick was selected ahead of a fully fit and well Mad Joe.......

Does anyone know if this is true?

 

[Cerbera]

According to Rupert it is true Ade, but he has been picked ahead of Mad Joe in the games before last Saturday as well.

 

[Green Matt]

Mediocrity - this to me would mean winning as many games as you lose, or close to it. We're lost 100% more games than we've won, with only 4 wins in 19! Terrible and we now find ourselves 3 points off the bottom of the 4th division. This is nowhere near good enough. Is the squad capable of better? I believe it is, just about, and with proper balance and organisation, although we're sorely lacking a proper striker and the defending has been diabolical at times. Not to mention things like discipline and general patchy quality that the manager is not really coping/dealing with effectively enough.

The trouble is that not managing even the embarrassing 'mediocrity' of accepting mid-table in this awful league leaves us exposed to the ultimate horror - the trapdoor to the unknown. I'd really like to think that there is enough about the heirarchy at the club to not even be contemplating flirting with that particular fate.

 

[Womble]

I'd kill for mediocraty at the moment.