AFT statement on HHP development and **new update 19th Sept*

[Emeraldinho]

It gets better - some poor delusional is even suggesting in the comments on a new article in the Herald about this that IJN and Postey must be in the pay of the paper!! :facepalm:

 

[Frazer Lloyd-Davies]

If we have to have a few offices to get a new stand then so be it. In my book, that's a fair compromise and one I can live with.

But that's the whole point...we don't! Where in the original announcement about the grandstand refurb (it isn't a new stand) did it say it was contingent on a commercial development on HHP, from which Argyle stand almost nothing to gain?

As I said earlier...

"I think we need to accept that the club is a private entity and that James Brent doesn't 'owe' us anything. To be frank, this business is his, not ours, and that within legal reason he can do as he pleases."

You might not like that, but that's the way this works unfortunately. This isn't our business, this isn't our land and this isn't our money. We can have an input, but in many respects, the development goes ahead as James Brent sees fit, assuming it is legally sound.

If he chooses to make money out of the land, property, club for his gain then so be it. It is his business and he has every right to do so. Yes, I'll be angry if it is at the detriment of the club, but to date I've seen nothing to suggest that it is and as stated earlier, James Brent has seen us improve our position year on year since his takeover.

This however is why I aruged that the AFT are an important entity. If 50% of season ticket holders were members and strongly opposed to this development, then they'd have the mandate to oppose the development, and would be doing precisely what you'd expect of a supporters' trust.

 

[Abbotts Ann Green]

Strange that these noisy few are still attempting to make so much din.

I have nothing whatsoever to do with the AFT but based on conversations I heard at Argyle the other day, I think its more than a few people who don't like this planning proposal.

I think the question people need to ask themselves is whether they would support a hotel, offices and retail outlets on this part of Central Park if there was no connection to Argyle. I'd wager that many people reading this forum would be opposed to it.

As far as I understand it, the grandstand redevelopment is being self-funded by the club and has nothing to do with the other commercial development being proposed. The club will not benefit from these commercial developments and I agree with those who say that it would cause traffic problems and spoil the appearance of the area.

The grandstand redevelopment seems be a tactic to try and get the other development approved by the Council and win the support of the public.

I don't mind the area being regenerated, but the quantity of development being proposed is far too much for this site. There are other places in Plymouth to build offices and hotels.

New retail and hotel facilities will benefit the club enormously when the conference facilities are built.

Akkeron have paid the full cost of the planning application ( the total cost will be many tens of thousands of pounds when you add in staff time and consultations).

The footprint of the redevelopment of the area is not exactly massive compared to the building of the Life Centre.

 

[Koala Green]

I live in London, don't go to Home Park that often as much as I would want to, and I rarely comment in PASOTI, but, to be quite frank, I thought AFT's statement was a rather pathetic nitpicking. We are now in the 21st Century, for Christ's sake! The new grandstand and HHP badly needs a redevelopment with all those new amenities such as eateries, new gym, ice rink, etc. They would sit well with the Life Centre.

Many other modern stadiums around the country have similar incentives, even with new housing and this can benefit the city more. I very much hope that PCC will approve the planning permission.

Totally agree. Argyle need change and development and what is proposed is very reasonable and of course Brent as a business will benefit. This is hardly ground breaking stuff adding a hotel and an Ice rink. It will bring Argyle into the 21st Century at last.

I have also moved away from the West Country a few years back and one negative perception of the area is the lack of ambition and innovation. It is one of the push factors why so many of us exiles seeking work outside of Plymouth for more career opportunities. This Argyle Fans Trust statement smacks of a lack of ambition. It is Committee willy waving at its finest and looks like a chance for a few people to exercise a bit of power.

Get the bloody Grandstand built, move the club forward, and get yer skates on and enjoy the brand spanking new Ice rink next door! It will be miles better than what we have, the club will hvae more money, we can watch better football then and also we'll enjoy sitting or standing eating better food at half time!

 

[pedro91]

Strange that these noisy few are still attempting to make so much din.

I have nothing whatsoever to do with the AFT but based on conversations I heard at Argyle the other day, I think its more than a few people who don't like this planning proposal.

I think the question people need to ask themselves is whether they would support a hotel, offices and retail outlets on this part of Central Park if there was no connection to Argyle. I'd wager that many people reading this forum would be opposed to it.

As far as I understand it, the grandstand redevelopment is being self-funded by the club and has nothing to do with the other commercial development being proposed. The club will not benefit from these commercial developments and I agree with those who say that it would cause traffic problems and spoil the appearance of the area.

The grandstand redevelopment seems be a tactic to try and get the other development approved by the Council and win the support of the public.

I don't mind the area being regenerated, but the quantity of development being proposed is far too much for this site. There are other places in Plymouth to build offices and hotels.

Exactly!!!!!

 

[jimbo_the_green]

Well done JB for not only submitting a hybrid application, when quite clearly the grandstand should be a separate one. But also for creating division in our fan base. His popularity is rapidly declining and no wonder!

His popularity isn't declining with me - It goes up every time I meet the man or read interviews with him. He has taken us from the very real possibility of ceasing to be, to a point where an application for major development and improvement can be submitted. I'd love to see the whole development take place, I believe it would make HP and the surrounding area a vibrant place to be on match day. A walk to a ticket office without dodging potholes. A club shop fit for purpose. A finished stadium (including all the bits under the stand for the players!!). An extra place to get a beer in a glass rather than a plastic beaker. Food not served from a caravan!

I also think it is sad that in a discussion about the AFT statement - when somebody states they have cancelled their membership on the back of it they are subject to petty patronising comments. It should set alarm bells ringing if members are leaving based on their actions. As numbers dwindle you will become more irrelevant than you currently are. A shame as a valid fans trust where debate and differing opinions was welcomed would be something worth investing in.

Hear hear - it's a shame the trust has become a militant sniping organisation as it was something I once believed would develop into a very worthwhile organisation. My membership lapsed a few years ago now and nothing they've done since has made me feel that joining again would be a positive move.

I can't see why the linking of the two projects to save significant fees can't be taken at face value.

As an objector personally to the previous plans due to their size and the boxing in of home park preventing future growth I consider myself to be an objective person. Each on its merits.

From my point of view it looks like people expect Brent to forgoe all other activity to the benefit of argyle. Nonsense

He's done nothing in my view other than oversee an upturn in our fortunes and is at the helm of a quality development of the grandstand.

 

[vibratingspider]

I feel like some people object to things for the sake of objecting and making themselves feel important.

 

[IJN]

Is it 'eloquent' because you agree with it?

JB sneaked this in did he? Or is that a figment of your imagination.

Tell me, in your world do you think he didn't court advice and direction in the many Board meetings?
Do you think he sprung this on the Hallett? Really?

I think some people get confused between what goes in on in the real world with what goes on in their life.

Going back to the AFT, I see we have the new board member objecting, which is her right of course, but isn't it strange that EVERY member of the AFT board is objecting. Wouldn't normal demographic of any group contain people that wouldn't agree with the rest?

No wonder I and many, many others see this as a campaign!

Strange that these noisy few are still attempting to make so much din.

Perhaps Pasoti can send in a support E mail. We could use a tag line of Plymouth for people that live in Plymouth! :thumbs:

What proportion of Pasoti lives in Plymouth?

You keep on doing that, let me explain again.

Pasoti is nothing but a website, it has no mandate nor does it pretend to.

The AFT on the other hand does.

Here to explain again and again if you so wish, but it's not that is it?

 

[Belfast Green]

The AFT statement says that it was an overwhelming majority, not unanimous Ian.
FWIW, the statement makes some good points, debatable of course, so debate the points: "play the ball rather than play the man".
The AFT has every right to set out its stall this way and the Board needs to answer the points - that is the planning system. If AFT members don't like what the AFT Board does, they can use their constitutional rights to get rid of Board members accordingly.
Slavish adherence to the word from the PAFC Board is not healthy either.

Peter Ryan. AFT Member #1

 

[IJN]

Anyone who knows me Pete (including you) know I've never slavishly adhered to any bugger.

The reason why I feel like playing the man not the ball is because of people like you, Webby, Graham, Lee etc etc. The AFT used to be a great thing belong to, now it's a joke of a Trust.

As for 'constitutional rights' codswallop mate, that's their rules not the everyday Argyle fan that wants to support PAFC.

 

[Ade the green]

Is it 'eloquent' because you agree with it?

JB sneaked this in did he? Or is that a figment of your imagination.

Tell me, in your world do you think he didn't court advice and direction in the many Board meetings?
Do you think he sprung this on the Hallett? Really?

I think some people get confused between what goes in on in the real world with what goes on in their life.

Going back to the AFT, I see we have the new board member objecting, which is her right of course, but isn't it strange that EVERY member of the AFT board is objecting. Wouldn't normal demographic of any group contain people that wouldn't agree with the rest?

No wonder I and many, many others see this as a campaign!

Strange that these noisy few are still attempting to make so much din.

Perhaps Pasoti can send in a support E mail. We could use a tag line of Plymouth for people that live in Plymouth! :thumbs:

What proportion of Pasoti lives in Plymouth?

Can you pull up the addresses of the AFT members so we can check them too!

Being a member of the AFT doesn't even mean anyone has to support Argyle. Could be there's people from other clubs might be stirring? Doubt it but it could happen.

 

[Leigh Rapson]

I’ve reluctantly cancelled my recurring membership payment to the AFT today. I slept on it last night and decided that I still feel the way the trust has gone about this is underhand and not at all representative of my views as a supporter.

As a member from right at the beginning I’m disappointed that I feel I needed to do it. The current board are obviously not interested in the views of many.

Using the excuse that they didn’t have time to canvass the membership is poor, they’ve had plenty of time. It takes but a few minutes to use survey monkey.

 

[GreenArmy1984]

Haven't renewed my AFT membership for a few seasons

In Brent We Trust :thumbs:

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

The whole idea of the refurbishment of the grandstand is to bring in new income streams that the club are missing out on. The refurbishment alone will not deliver that to it's fullest potential. It would increase match day income but the conferencing facilities will not be competitive without the additional venues at HHP. The hotel is a must in this respect and the City needs the ice rink. The other facilities will not only increase the daily footfall but will contribute to the cost of the whole development.

It seems to me that some people just want more seats, a supporters bar for match days and nothing else. Well that alone would hardly increase turnover to the level that could be achieved with the full development in place.

The "add ons" may not seem necessary or of a benefit to the club but their inclusion will help pay for the bits that the club will profit from.

 

[Leigh Rapson]

The whole idea of the refurbishment of the grandstand is to bring in new income streams that the club are missing out on. The refurbishment alone will not deliver that to it's fullest potential. It would increase match day income but the conferencing facilities will not be competitive without the additional venues at HHP. The hotel is a must in this respect and the City needs the ice rink. The other facilities will not only increase the daily footfall but will contribute to the cost of the whole development.

It seems to me that some people just want more seats, a supporters bar for match days and nothing else. Well that alone would hardly increase turnover to the level that could be achieved with the full development in place.

The "add ons" may not seem necessary or of a benefit to the club but their inclusion will help pay for the bits that the club will profit from.

I’ve just had to have a sit down because I agree with you

Spot on and a shame a lot of people can’t understand that. Ultimately the club is a business and must be treated as such. Which as far has I can see is what’s happening.