why the surprise...

[adri_216]

at what's going on in front of us? Essentially it's the same set up as last season with the same key people in key roles. Nothing much has changed. Our two 'big' summer signings were both non-league players (with one coming from the LoW ffs). I'm saddened by this but not in the least surprised. We had a sub-standard set up and playing squad last year and we've got pretty much the same this year. What's that famous definition of madness? som thing about trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...

 

[Pilgrim]

Indeed, and alot of people were raving about how many goals Griffiths had scored in the league of Wales. I said it's one thing scoring in the LoW, but doing it in the football league is a totally different matter...

 

[adri_216]

Pilgrim, I'm guessing that most people on here had never seen a LoW game. Having lived in cardiff for a decade I had the pleasure of seeing quite a few. I'd put the average standard at around low BSP south/north. Mr Griffiths was a good player in that league but never, ever going to be the messiah that some thought. His signing and the reaxction that it caused amongst some fans reflects the low to which we've dropped.

 

[Pilgrim]

Even the bulk of the Southern Premier sides would easily compete in the LoW.

Absolutely, at 32, don't you think he would already be playing in the football league by now, if he had the ability?

 

[adri_216]

Yes I do, although I knew a few blokes who had the ability to play in the lower leagues but earnt more by having a day job and playing p-t in good non-league football.

However, without labouring the point, it's not a personal attack Mr Griffith's ability or otherwise: my point is that the reaction of many of the fans at his signing reflects the level of our expectations as fans (how can you get excited about a 32 y.o player from the LoW?) and the level to which the club has sunk in terms of its ability to attract, sign and pay good quality players.

I know many on here disagree but IMO at least two thirds of this present squad will be playing non-league football in the next 4 years. They are that poor.

 

[DudleyT]

Stepping up a level for strikers fails to come off much more often than it succeeds. There are many examples of prolific scorers at one level being totally ineffective at even one level higher. I remember at Argyle some years ago, Owen Pickard scoring loads for the Reserves (when they played the likes of Arsenal) but useless in the first team. Lee Phillips was prolific for Conference teams, but not in the Football League. Most memorable success from non-league for Argyle was Tony Book, who joined from Bath City to join Argyle in the second tier at 28, and went on to succeed at the top level for Man City, but he was a right back, not a striker. Rhys Griffiths is being asked to make a successful leap of 2 or perhaps 3 levels as a striker at 32, a very long shot indeed. Who can blame the guy for wanting to grab his chance, and good luck to him, but from what I've seen those very long odds are unsurprisingly not coming off. Paris Cowan-Hall is quite different, being young and moving up just one level, he looks to be a very good acquisition for Argyle.

 

[adri_216]

I'm not blaming him - I'd jump at the chance now and I'm in my 50s!

I'm simply using him as an example to illustrate that by looking at our pre-season signings and the lack of any major change in either the coaching or playing staff I'm not surprised that we're struggling. B
y the way, I agree the PCH just might be a good punt.

 

[PAFC is for life]

Yes I do, although I knew a few blokes who had the ability to play in the lower leagues but earnt more by having a day job and playing p-t in good non-league football.

However, without labouring the point, it's not a personal attack Mr Griffith's ability or otherwise: my point is that the reaction of many of the fans at his signing reflects the level of our expectations as fans (how can you get excited about a 32 y.o player from the LoW?) and the level to which the club has sunk in terms of its ability to attract, sign and pay good quality players.

I know many on here disagree but IMO at least two thirds of this present squad will be playing non-league football in the next 4 years. They are that poor.

If we keep Fletcher much longer they all will be.

 

[gaspargomez]

The question is WHY do we have the same team as last year ?

Is it because Fletcher wanted to hand contracts out to his buddies OR is it because we couldn't afford to sign anyone else ? Personally, I suspect it's because Brent isn't funding the playing budget properly.

Based on current signings, I reckon our budget is similar to a top-end BSP team. This is crap for a club the size of Argyle.

 

[GreenSam]

The question is WHY do we have the same team as last year ?

Is it because Fletcher wanted to hand contracts out to his buddies OR is it because we couldn't afford to sign anyone else ? Personally, I suspect it's because Brent isn't funding the playing budget properly.

Based on current signings, I reckon our budget is similar to a top-end BSP team. This is crap for a club the size of Argyle.

I've heard and read from three different people that our budget is at the top end of this league. It's also pretty obvious when you see our squad size is much bigger, signings made are much more and probably managerial wages are much bigger than most of this league. Fletcher has just wasted it.

 

[samjones]

Not surprised at all TBH.

We are a rank amateur outfit both on and off the field with a clueless manager and green and cabbage looking chairman.

Personally I think we would really struggle in the conference at the moment and our only hope is that there are 2 worse teams than us

We have far too many poor players and should be operating with a max squad of 20 better quality players.

Its quality not quantity that counts and of course a manager that knows what he is doing

 

[gaspargomez]

I've heard and read from three different people that our budget is at the top end of this league.

I know Brent has mentioned the "competitive budget" more than once, but in the summer Fletcher said something to the media about us missing out on good players. He obviously had to be guarded about what he said.

I haven't heard any other official comments regarding the playing budget- apart from what I read on PASOTI (which I tend not to believe anyway unless there is some evidence/basis to it).

Given that our main signings this year were from non-league I'd guess that's the level of wages we are paying.

 

[briangreen]

Pilgrim, I'm guessing that most people on here had never seen a LoW game. Having lived in cardiff for a decade I had the pleasure of seeing quite a few. I'd put the average standard at around low BSP south/north. Mr Griffiths was a good player in that league but never, ever going to be the messiah that some thought. His signing and the reaxction that it caused amongst some fans reflects the low to which we've dropped.

Griffith scored a hat-trick against above average opposition in one of the top european competitions (can't remember which one it was).
He has goals in him, but the way we play him & the support he's given is the problem. He's performed well for us, but has been injured and probably lacks match fitness, but for me a lot of the Argyle players don't look fully fit.
The loan players seem to come here full of zest, but lose it after a short time. Something must be lacking in the training. Does anybody watch them train?

 

[GreenSam]

I've heard and read from three different people that our budget is at the top end of this league.

I know Brent has mentioned the "competitive budget" more than once, but in the summer Fletcher said something to the media about us missing out on good players. He obviously had to be guarded about what he said.

I haven't heard any other official comments regarding the playing budget- apart from what I read on PASOTI (which I tend not to believe anyway unless there is some evidence/basis to it).

Given that our main signings this year were from non-league I'd guess that's the level of wages we are paying.

Maybe we missed out on players to higher league clubs or the very few clubs with bigger budgets than us in the league? We have had 32 players- that's more than most who have about 22/24. Yes some of those are youth and loan players but clubs with much smaller squads have youth and loan players too. Perhaps we have more of them than most but I'd guess that is balanced out by the extra high wages of our highest earners. The fact that we have made more signings than pretty much any club(including new contracts) also indicates more agent fees and signing on fees.

We have a massively bloated squad, which I do not believe is made irrelevant by the amount of young players we have and I'd guess have paid a lot to agents/players in signing fees. When we have a squad which has contained about 8 more players than most other squads, in addition to the other factors I mentioned I think it's reasonable to assume our budget is in the top end of this league. Also I trust the three people that I've read/heard say we have a big budget for this league but we may have to agree to disagree there.