URGENT: Bury FC Petition (update: expelled) | Page 11 | PASOTI
  • This site is sponsored by Lang & Potter.

URGENT: Bury FC Petition (update: expelled)

Biggs

Administrator
Staff member
✅ Evergreen
✨Pasoti Donor✨
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Feb 14, 2010
12,930
6,602
Plymouth/London
Argy1e":26kkpqze said:
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/1166612123503538179 Read this thread of tweets. No-one is going to come in and pay those figures for a club that will be somewhere between the 7th-10th tier next season.

He's great, those tweets are brilliant :thumbup:

There HAS to be some good come out of this now and we need to establish what we want from our national club game, with a conversation that includes everyone from Man United to Accrington.

I think the deep football pyramid is the best thing about the sport in this country, so do we want a vibrant club game that benefits everybody and produces talent up and down the country? Or 20-25 clubs at the top drowning in cash and stockpiling players, while the rest live hand to mouth?

I fear the ship may have sailed though, and clubs at the top see themselves as global corporations effectively separate to the rest of the country, and more interested in a European super league that will line their pockets even more.
 

pafcprogs

🌟 Pasoti Laureate 🌟
Apr 3, 2008
1,160
2,814
Westerham Kent
I like most of you will be saddened by what has happened and potentially is happening at Bury and Bolton

And has happened or nearly happened to so many other clubs, our own included, in recent years.

Back in those dark days plenty of other fans from other clubs stepped up to help us. Just as we stepped up to help Bury as best we can.

But what next? Who next?

To my mind, and I have posted to this effect on the Bury site, they could be a touchstone to allow the fans who care to coalesce around and put pressure on the EFL to clean up their act. I for one would think we can all see that something needs to change to stop clubs being asset stripped by chancers like Day/Dale ( and Heaney etc).

I won't repost what i put on their board as really it is for Bury fans to decide what they do but I would hope Pasoti will as ever be receptive to any request for support they make.

One thing I suggested was a Fans Reunited 3 at Port Vale v Argyle in September.

Oh and a hashtag to keep the culpable individual in the spotlight while we find out what he did exactly or force the EFL to properly investigate

#jaildale
#Fit&properEFL
 
Feb 4, 2011
342
66
cornwall
Man Untd pay 6 million pounds to Int Milan to take one of their players for a season Bury go out of buisness how stupid soccer is becoming. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
 

Voice of Reason

Auction Winner 👨‍⚖️
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Sep 30, 2004
1,518
1,010
As stupid as the bloody Nevilles saying they couldn't step in because of Salford ownership.
Jeez one hour of paperwork would have resolved that. But their snout is so entrenched in the Sky trough they didn't want to let go of their new money maker.
 

PL2 3DQ

Site Owner
✨Pasoti Donor✨
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Oct 31, 2010
24,554
1
11,142
Voice_of_Reason":2khhssip said:
As stupid as the bloody Nevilles saying they couldn't step in because of Salford ownership.
Jeez one hour of paperwork would have resolved that. But their snout is so entrenched in the Sky trough they didn't want to let go of their new money maker.

Indeed. Two life long Bury fans who had the financial resources to save the club and yet did nothing.

Lots of tweets and support for Bury from other football clubs.
 

Biggs

Administrator
Staff member
✅ Evergreen
✨Pasoti Donor✨
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Feb 14, 2010
12,930
6,602
Plymouth/London
pafcprogs":wpe1arfj said:
Oh and a hashtag to keep the culpable individual in the spotlight while we find out what he did exactly or force the EFL to properly investigate

#jaildale
#Fit&properEFL

Before Pasoti gets done for libel (!) I'm not sure this is down to one individual, especially if you look at Andy Holt's breakdown of their problems and debts.

In short, Bury were completely in the brown stuff before Dale took over. That's why the EFL didn't scrutinise him, because it was him or they would have gone out of business eight months ago.

He either had no money, made a complete hash of things, or both... but seems the writing was on the wall a long time ago, unless they got bought by someone with serious dough.
 

Biggs

Administrator
Staff member
✅ Evergreen
✨Pasoti Donor✨
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Feb 14, 2010
12,930
6,602
Plymouth/London
Just to publish those Andy Holt (Accrington chairman) tweets in an easier way to read...

At face value... Stewart Day had sold the stadium which has a debt on it of around £3.7m. The interest charged, eye watering. He had sold car parking spaces, around 250 of them, at £10,000 a pop. Without a deal to settle these liabilities there was no hope.So that’s £6.2m.

Add in.. Football creditors. Steve Dale’s cash spent. The CVA costs. And you’re north of £10m by some way. Then add in the requirement to fund the club through. Then the fact there’s no settled manager, no team. More points deductions. Almost certainly @SkyBetLeagueTwo club next year.

Add on this the unknown creditors that always crawl out of the woodwork. It just got way too risky and way too expensive for ANY buyer. The death of @buryfcofficial was set in train years ago. When Steve Dale started to see reality he knew the club could not survive its debt burden. He had walked into a hornets nest. That’s what was happening behind the scenes, an attempt to pull debtors and fixed charge holders together. It’s exactly the same situation @OfficialBWFC

None of this matters right now because OUR FIRST @EFL club has been expelled. All along the @buryfcofficial @OfficialBWFC timelines there was opportunity for intervention.

We need to examine these and change the rules.
 
Jan 4, 2005
8,877
1,086
NEWQUAY
It is a big pity that Steve Dale was so unsophisticated financially that he could not recognise he was on a hiding to nothing in taking over Bury, rather than thinking he could could make a 'pile' out of his £1 investment. As for the EFL not 'smelling a rat' so to speak, when Dale had put 43 limited companies into liquidation out of 51, which he owned, prior to taking on Bury FC , words fail me. Just what does one need to do in order not be considered a suitable owner of a EFL club. Perhaps a 25 year prison sentence for fraud?
 

The Doctor

✨Pasoti Donor✨
Sep 15, 2003
8,973
4,574
Plymouth
andapoet.blog
I read somewhere that the 250 parking spaces sold at £10,000 a pop were sold to investors in Hong Kong. If that is true...

Why would an investor in Hong Kong want a parking space in Bury?
How could the investment return from a parking space in Bury be sufficient to entice an investor in Hong Kong to pay £10,000 for it?

I’m utterly baffled by this.
 

Keepitgreen

🇰🇪 Welicar Donor
♣️ PACSA Member
♣️ Senior Greens
✅ Evergreen
✨Pasoti Donor✨
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
May 12, 2008
12,517
1,591
Plymouth
Steve Dale doesn't talk to the EFL for weeks and now comes up with this:

Bury owner Steve Dale is calling for the EFL to rescind the decision to expel the club from the Football League.

Dale told Sky Sports News if those requests go unanswered, he will be demanding an independent adjudicator to be appointed to review the decision and will also ask the other EFL clubs for their support.

He said: "If the many requests to rescind remain unanswered we believe an independent adjudicator should be brought in, we also want a secret ballot of all EFL clubs to ask the question if they want fellow clubs Bolton and Bury FC to be taken out of the league, I don't think they would want that".
 

pafcprogs

🌟 Pasoti Laureate 🌟
Apr 3, 2008
1,160
2,814
Westerham Kent
Biggs":25knbvmt said:
pafcprogs":25knbvmt said:
Oh and a hashtag to keep the culpable individual in the spotlight while we find out what he did exactly or force the EFL to properly investigate

#jaildale
#Fit&properEFL

Before Pasoti gets done for libel (!) I'm not sure this is down to one individual, especially if you look at Andy Holt's breakdown of their problems and debts.

In short, Bury were completely in the brown stuff before Dale took over. That's why the EFL didn't scrutinise him, because it was him or they would have gone out of business eight months ago.

He either had no money, made a complete hash of things, or both... but seems the writing was on the wall a long time ago, unless they got bought by someone with serious dough.


Asking for someone to be held to account isn't libellous, and I am sure there are others that will be blameworthy...

The point is there have been over 40 clubs in administration in the last 25 years and the EFL presides over a system that still allows individuals like Mr Dale to freely enter into club ownership for £1, and when he decides he cannot fund his obligations they admit they didn't put him through the same scrutiny that every other club in that situation is made to.

The sad thing is he probably isn't even the worst owner they have welcomed in.

But can you honestly say that with that track record the EFL is fit for purpose? That it won't happen again?

I sent an open letter ( via their communications director because like many customer brands ( and they have brand values they list on their site but the contact us link is broken!!!!) to Debbie Jevons CBE which I am happy to repeat below.

I will post any reply i receive.

Dear Debbie

I write to you as a supporter of Plymouth Argyle. As such through my purchase of various services and merchandise and payment of my admission fees I am in effect a customer of the EFL. I have written to you via your communications director as there is apparently no unfiltered way for your customers to reach you when they have concerns they wish to raise.

Over the last few years, numerous teams, mine included, have found themselves in financial difficulties and have had to satisfy the EFL of their suitability and ability to be allowed to compete in the competitions your organisation administer. Until yesterday, none of these clubs have failed to reach a position whereby they were unable to meet the criteria set by your organisation.

Yesterday Bury failed to do so and were expelled. Bolton Wanderers had the suspension of their notice to be expelled lifted and are now on a similar time clock to that which expired for Bury.

I recall during the process of rescuing Plymouth Argyle the EFL were hugely influential in who could be allowed to ultimately be granted the Golden Share that allows the EFL to determine who may or may not participate in their competitions. It is therefore completely shocking that your organisation continues to have such ineffective processes that allow clubs to become owned by financial charlatans. Indeed the EFL has admitted that Bury were owned by someone who effectively evaded any such checks and balances required by the EFL.

It is surely inequitable for the EFL to insist that some clubs go through the process and others do not. In the recent negotiations for Bury a precondition of the club retaining its EFL status was that they demonstrate funding sufficient to support the club through ( and reports vary) either one or two years of trading. There are now 71 clubs in the EFL. Can you confirm how many clubs within the remaining 71 have been asked to similarly demonstrate such funding/liquidity?

Can you explain how an individual such as Stephen Dale can effectively own a member club without any effective scrutiny by your organisation? Was it incompetence, indifference or negligence? Or was there another reason because there has to be a reason and it is incumbent upon you to know what that is in order to apply your regulations effectively in future.

I believe the handling of the situation at Bury and Bolton by the EFL requires independent scrutiny to determine how such a state of affairs was a) allowed to occur and b) what is required to prevent it from reoccurring. The fact so many clubs have been through the process of administration and that clearly unsuitable individuals have so recently still been allowed to become owners without proper or effective scrutiny by the governing organisation requires an explanation.

Your most recent TV interview stated that the EFL needed to learn from what has happened at Bury. Whilst I agree that that is obviously the case I think you have a wider obligation to the game of football and its supporters, players and ancillary staff to go much further. I, and many others will campaign to make sure that the impact of the demise of a club like Bury does not get swept under the carpet.

You must be aware that in the last quarter of a century over 40 EFL clubs have entered administration. Some more than once. Ironically some clubs that have been through that process were amongst those voting to expel Bury. There but for the grace of God springs to mind.

The one constant within this is that the EFL holds jurisdiction over the competitions these clubs participate in.

This is a problem that affects real lives, careers and whole communities. The EFL have seemed incapable of regulating this effectively and to the satisfaction of its customers. You have a once in a generation opportunity to throw the spotlight onto this problem. I implore you not to waste it with corporate bland words and platitudes but to grasp the nettle and conduct a root and branch review of this game.


#FitandProperEFL



Peter Sleeman

PS Sorry to Biggs as I Pm'd him by mistake :)
 
Aug 5, 2015
3,397
760
Of course we all feel for the people of Bury. We were nearly there. Interesting to see though that the pontificating Neville’s could not support their home town club financially as they had already chosen to support another club. Draw your own conclusions
 
Mar 7, 2006
3,158
1
On secondment in Kent
Sure I read an article in which Dale said the same things as Brent when he took over …. he neither had the desire nor resources to simply throw cash at it. He also said that what he found out when taking over was worse than he had previously thought (presumably the same mess the Analytics company saw when they decided to walk away).

Im not defending Dale as I do not know enough about his past or the dire position Bury find themselves in but calling for jail seems a bit extreme until all the facts are out. Would we have wanted Brent to go to jail if he couldn't turn Argyle around?

Does Dale actually stand to make anything from them going bust? Isnt there a massive mortgage on the ground?
 

Pogleswoody

R.I.P
Jul 3, 2006
20,748
4,410
72
Location Location
Biggs":3evar8r8 said:
pafcprogs":3evar8r8 said:
Oh and a hashtag to keep the culpable individual in the spotlight while we find out what he did exactly or force the EFL to properly investigate

#jaildale
#Fit&properEFL


In short, Bury were completely in the brown stuff before Dale took over. That's why the EFL didn't scrutinise him, because it was him or they would have gone out of business eight months ago.


That has got to be nonsense doesn't it?? You can't say you won't check a potential owner because the previous owner (who you did check??) made such a hash of it, can you?

Due (meaning 'now', 'forthwith', 'dreckly')
Diligence ('in depth analysis', 'investigation', 'digging about a bit')

Maybe the test should be changed to PI? : Postponed Indifference? :doh: