Towards an objective view of the last 8 months

[esmer]

:lol:
Happy days.
Esmer. Really.....?

?????? Really

 

[Bermudian Green]

Where did I say I was sure??? I just said it's POSSIBLE he can attract investment, perhaps he already has something lined up, I don't know. But the Brent plan means austerity and hard times, which if there is no alternative is completely acceptable to me, I'd rather that than no club at all.

Given that in the period he has been here he hasn't managed to get us a kit to play in this season, what makes you so sure he can complete on some bigger deals?

 

[Melbourne Mark]

Ridsdale borrowed £60 million against future gate receipts at Leeds.When he left them, they were £103 million in debt, and about to get relegated down two divisions.
He took Barnsley to the brink of liquidation, only to be saved at the last minute by two local businessmen who bought him out.
He took Cardiff from £35 million debt to £66 million debt and survived four winding up orders.
All this can be gleaned from Wikipaedia.
He manages to liquidate his own company(can't imagine why)and yet potentially ends up owning a football league club for £1.
And there are still people who sing his praises.
Guilfoyle has looked after Ridsdale from day one,and there needs to be an inquiry into this whole affair.

:iagree: Gerald, this whole Ridsdale involvement leaves me very worried about the club's future financial sustainability.

Not sure why he has this auroa of being able to attract investment. He didn't lure any to Cardiff and hasn't had any success on that front for us.

 

[esmer]

Where did I say I was sure??? I just said it's POSSIBLE he can attract investment, perhaps he already has something lined up, I don't know. But the Brent plan means austerity and hard times, which if there is no alternative is completely acceptable to me, I'd rather that than no club at all.

Given that in the period he has been here he hasn't managed to get us a kit to play in this season, what makes you so sure he can complete on some bigger deals?

F*ck me, did I say I was sure?

The reason we have no kit is that he is being prevented from finalising the deal by the administrator, for obvious reasons.

 

[Shane Harris]

Wigan and Reading both had sugar daddy's come in and pay there way for them. Swansea play in a ground shared with the rugby team and I'm pretty sure owned by the Council, their supporters trust has 20% of the club, and they helped to bring the people in who saved their club. Peter Ridsdale does not fit into any of those categories.

I don't know much about Hull, Cardiff, or Blackpool. Was there large scale investment brought to the club at the time they or their local authority did not own their ground?

Anyway, that is not my point. My point is that we have heard about investors before from Mr. Ridsdale and they did not appear. Surely we were a more attractive proposition before the ground being sold to a private landlord. I just want to know what makes Esmer so sure that Ridsdale can bring investment in when he failed to do so when the club had assets.

Where did I say I was sure??? I just said it's POSSIBLE he can attract investment, perhaps he already has something lined up, I don't know. But the Brent plan means austerity and hard times, which if there is no alternative is completely acceptable to me, I'd rather that than no club at all.

Oh yes Emer because we live in the land of plenty right now don't we :banghead:

 

[esmer]

Ridsdale borrowed £60 million against future gate receipts at Leeds.When he left them, they were £103 million in debt, and about to get relegated down two divisions.
He took Barnsley to the brink of liquidation, only to be saved at the last minute by two local businessmen who bought him out.
He took Cardiff from £35 million debt to £66 million debt and survived four winding up orders.
All this can be gleaned from Wikipaedia.
He manages to liquidate his own company(can't imagine why)and yet potentially ends up owning a football league club for £1.
And there are still people who sing his praises.
Guilfoyle has looked after Ridsdale from day one,and there needs to be an inquiry into this whole affair.

:iagree: Gerald, this whole Ridsdale involvement leaves me very worried about the club's future financial sustainability.

Not sure why he has this auroa of being able to attract investment. He didn't lure any to Cardiff and hasn't had any success on that front for us.

There are risks involved and,as I have said (more than once), it is very much just a possibility that he can attract investment but there are also risks if we have to live within our means, paying of a large debt at the same time. It could see a downward spiral of lack of on-field success and ever falling gates.

 

[esmer]

Wigan and Reading both had sugar daddy's come in and pay there way for them. Swansea play in a ground shared with the rugby team and I'm pretty sure owned by the Council, their supporters trust has 20% of the club, and they helped to bring the people in who saved their club. Peter Ridsdale does not fit into any of those categories.

I don't know much about Hull, Cardiff, or Blackpool. Was there large scale investment brought to the club at the time they or their local authority did not own their ground?

Anyway, that is not my point. My point is that we have heard about investors before from Mr. Ridsdale and they did not appear. Surely we were a more attractive proposition before the ground being sold to a private landlord. I just want to know what makes Esmer so sure that Ridsdale can bring investment in when he failed to do so when the club had assets.

Where did I say I was sure??? I just said it's POSSIBLE he can attract investment, perhaps he already has something lined up, I don't know. But the Brent plan means austerity and hard times, which if there is no alternative is completely acceptable to me, I'd rather that than no club at all.

Oh yes Emer because we live in the land of plenty right now don't we :banghead:

No. What's your point?

 

[PlymptonPilgrim]

I would submit that:

1) There are fans whose relationship with Argyle is essentially as a passive consumer. They have put years, sometimes decades, into supporting their club. They want to see ambition, they want to see success, they want to see good players playing good football. Their supporting experience is about going to games, having a few beers with friends and hopefully getting a good result. They see support for the club in straightforward terms: buy a season ticket, get behind the lads and hold your nose at what's going on above.

2) There are fans who want more than that; they want to be an active commissioner of how the club is run. They want stability, they want an ownership structure that recognises and embraces Argyle's role in the community. They think that the grass roots can only flourish if there's a healthy light shining on them. They too want to enjoy their football but not at the expense of mistreatment of staff and lack of transparency and accountability in how the club is run. Their commitment to the club is not in doubt, but it could be conditional on a structure that appreciates the wider social and economic environment in which the club exists.

My contention is that there is nothing wrong with either of these positions. Debate is healthy, argument is healthy. Being a passive consumer does not necessarily mean you do not appreciate that things should have been done differently but the problem with passivity is that by definition it diminishes influence. Being an active commissioner does not necessarily mean that you don't care about formation and tactics, but it does recognise that the on-pitch success or failure over a season or two means nothing in context of future stability.

Where does the objectivity come in? Through independent observers. Prof John Beech, 'Digger' and David Conn in the Guardian, respected bloggers: all have caught a whiff about Argyle from the Magnificent seven to the Ridsdale troika. They're like our coal mine canaries and they're keeling over cos it's a bit gassy.

I would love to reconcile myself to being a passive consumer, but it just isn't possible at present. There is too much happening that flatly shouldn't.

Pretty much go along with that.

Without getting too Orwellian about the whole thing, there is certainly a 'we're more equal than you' feeling around, particularly if anyone dares to speak out against the Trust.

 

[Drew Savage]

I don't know much about Hull, Cardiff, or Blackpool. Was there large scale investment brought to the club at the time they or their local authority did not own their ground?

The KC Stadium was a present from the city of Hull after they'd sold off a stake in their telecoms business, which was the only municipal one not absorbed into Post Office Telephones (which later became British Telecom).

Blackpool have been funded by a Latvian banking millionaire called Valeri Belokon.

 

[Greenskin]

I don't know much about Hull, Cardiff, or Blackpool. Was there large scale investment brought to the club at the time they or their local authority did not own their ground?

The KC Stadium was a present from the city of Hull after they'd sold off a stake in their telecoms business, which was the only municipal one not absorbed into Post Office Telephones (which later became British Telecom).

Blackpool have been funded by a Latvian banking millionaire called Valeri Belokon.

I think Hull were also funded heavily by a consortium involving Adam Pearson,who has also been involved with Derby and who i seem to recall once commented that Argyle were one of the four "sleeping giants " worth investing in.Cardiff were originally bankrolled by Sam Hammam,before he was ousted by Ridsdale in rather acrimonious circumstances.The point i was really trying to make that because a club is down on its uppers at a given moment doesn't neccesarily rule out interest from people with an eye for an opportunity and the foresight to see what could be achieved.I'm far from convinced that the club has been marketed and advertised to the widest possible degree in the current circumstances,but thats another story.

 

[N I Green]

Ridsdale borrowed £60 million against future gate receipts at Leeds.When he left them, they were £103 million in debt, and about to get relegated down two divisions.
He took Barnsley to the brink of liquidation, only to be saved at the last minute by two local businessmen who bought him out.
He took Cardiff from £35 million debt to £66 million debt and survived four winding up orders.
All this can be gleaned from Wikipaedia.
He manages to liquidate his own company(can't imagine why)and yet potentially ends up owning a football league club for £1.
And there are still people who sing his praises.
Guilfoyle has looked after Ridsdale from day one,and there needs to be an inquiry into this whole affair.

This. The whole situation stinks!

Away games only for me, for the foreseeable future. And I don't care what anyone else thinks about that, so don't bother commenting...

 

[grovehill]

Once a deal is completed, Plymouth Argyle Football Club will actually be a fairly good investment opportunity.

Virtually debt free and in a League where they will attract gates some way above the average for the Division.

 

[Tavypilgrim]

Once a deal is completed, Plymouth Argyle Football Club will actually be a fairly good investment opportunity.

Virtually debt free and in a League where they will attract gates some way above the average for the Division.

But also with a proven propensity for not sustaining higher gates in higher divisions. I agree someone could come in a make us a top League 1 club due to us being in a position of power over our rivals(higher crowds = more money etc.). To get us any higher than that though is going to take vast sums of money, as our creditors found out to their cost last time.

 

[Greenskin]

Once a deal is completed, Plymouth Argyle Football Club will actually be a fairly good investment opportunity.

Virtually debt free and in a League where they will attract gates some way above the average for the Division.

But also with a proven propensity for not sustaining higher gates in higher divisions. I agree someone could come in a make us a top League 1 club due to us being in a position of power over our rivals(higher crowds = more money etc.). To get us any higher than that though is going to take vast sums of money, as our creditors found out to their cost last time.

Its all chicken and egg about the gates,though.The reason why gates have never been sustained is because Argyle,in their seasons in the second tier since WW2,have averaged 16th position,which is hardly a record to set the pulse racing.And does it really take vast sums of money to be able to do better than that? It didn't really take a fortune for Argyle to build a squad capable of getting into a challenging spot in the CCC,it was the inadequacies/greed [depending on your point of view] of the directorate which caused that to be broken up.And have Swansea,Blackpool etc spent vast sums of money to get to where they want to be? Not as far as i know,good management and adequate financial resources seem to have done the trick for those clubs.

 

[Tavypilgrim]

Once a deal is completed, Plymouth Argyle Football Club will actually be a fairly good investment opportunity.

Virtually debt free and in a League where they will attract gates some way above the average for the Division.

But also with a proven propensity for not sustaining higher gates in higher divisions. I agree someone could come in a make us a top League 1 club due to us being in a position of power over our rivals(higher crowds = more money etc.). To get us any higher than that though is going to take vast sums of money, as our creditors found out to their cost last time.

Its all chicken and egg about the gates,though.The reason why gates have never been sustained is because Argyle,in their seasons in the second tier since WW2,have averaged 16th position,which is hardly a record to set the pulse racing.And does it really take vast sums of money to be able to do better than that? It didn't really take a fortune for Argyle to build a squad capable of getting into a challenging spot in the CCC,it was the inadequacies/greed [depending on your point of view] of the directorate which caused that to be broken up.And have Swansea,Blackpool etc spent vast sums of money to get to where they want to be? Not as far as i know,good management and adequate financial resources seem to have done the trick for those clubs.

But for every Swansea or Blackpool there are a dozen or so other teams that failed. It's like you need the perfect storm of good judgement, good planning,good finances, good management and good players to have a chance. It doesn't happen often in a clubs history and maybe we already had our almost perfect storm a few years ago, sadly we lacked the finances to finish the season.