Ollieargyle9":1mgz4x84 said:
Greenblooded1":1mgz4x84 said:
Ollieargyle9":1mgz4x84 said:
Greenblooded1":1mgz4x84 said:
What is the point of having non voting shares?
It's a scam, a gesture to pacify the simple, whilst raising money to soften the financial burden of others. IMHO.
Just thought I'd step in here...
In no way is the club's offer a "scam", that would be harsh to say the least almost bordering on slander in fact. What the club is offering is a 20% share in the club without the voting rights of normal share holders; this has always been the case as far as I know. The club hasn't dressed this up as a 20% say in Argyle’s decision making process; a scam would imply a lie on the club's part whereby the Trust is to be told it's buying voting shares when in fact they are buying non-voting shares. This isn't the case; the Trust knows exactly what has been offered and exactly what they will receive should they accept the offer.
Maybe the trust does now know they are buying non-voting shares, but it's not the trust that's coming up with the money is it, it's the fans?
Perhaps I missed the part in the original announcement that the shares would be non voting, I apologise if so, if not I would suggest the goalposts are moving.
I'm also now wondering why you are being defensive, what have you to lose, surely after the experiences of the past we should be questioning everything?
Sorry GB1 I didn't mean to come across as defensive, I just seem to remember it being mentioned before that the shares on offer were non-voting shares and so I thought I'd join in the discussion to confirm that things hadn't been changed by either side to my knowledge.
Just to confirm I have nothing to lose or gain, just like you I simply want what's best for Argyle and for us as fans. My only intention was to ensure we did not go down to route of turning questioning into libel or slander which I'm sure wasn't your intention but words like "scam" do seem to ruffle a few people's feathers...
Again, sorry if I came across as a bit off with you
I apologise too. I am trying to "ruffle a few feathers" as I believe now is the time for us fans to remain strong & negotiate a position of strength, rather than "cosy up" & be palmed off with things like a useless non voting share option:
The stake in the club is not sufficient in itself to have 'power', as others have observed above. But there is a large emotional attraction.
Gimme a break!! Emotional attraction is why we buy mugs & shirts, not invest serious money into the club for others to benefit.
Our experience from the well run "previous trust" (thanks JV etc) shows what can be achieved & how easily it can be abused & wasted by our clubs owners, firstly using our money to hide their problem (cashflow) then to squander it in a "regulatory" PC sport scheme. Where is that fans money now I wonder, as it should be used to help fund this scheme....
We, the fans, now have a chance to establish a position "within the club" to help secure our clubs future by way of influence & information. If we look back at the recent shinanaguns (M7), if the people involved couldn't hide the truth of the clubs plight, we wouldn't have got into such a mess.
I strongly believe the trust & its shareholding should be used as a tool to hold the clubs owners to account, not as a nicety for friendly dialogue. It's a fact of human life that power corrupts, we all need "corrective mechanisms" to keep us on the straight & narrow, the clubs owners need to be held to account for their decisions & actions, constantly questioned & never trusted. That doesn't mean to say it should be a hostile, unco-operative or unsupportive relationship, but one of mutual respect.
We now as fans of PAFC have the chance of a lifetime, how much money will really be raised towards an "emotional attraction" compared to a significant stake with voting rights in our club? I know it won't be easy, with many disputes, both within the fans (who will represent us) and between trust & club, but make no mistake, in the real world shareholders in small businesses don't always see eye to eye either & disputes are all part of getting to the correct decisions.
PAFC now has a real chance of becoming something special, a new grandstand, stable finances, a receptive, progressive & smart owner and with a big & widespread fanbase. The club could be put on such a good footing for future generations, or can slip back into bouncing between tier 2 & 3, once the money has been made on the redevelopments.
I suggest we grab the chance while we can.