Idiot during Saturday's minute silence

[PAFC94]

Were other victims of disasters repeatedly blamed for their own deaths? Did they die due to establishment incompetence? Was there then a systematic campaign of media, police and government lies to discredit them? Are the people responsible still walking the streets today without any reprecussions?

Just think about it- there's a reason why Hillsborough is different. It is the single biggest scandal in English football history.

As for talk of 'Heysel murders by those Liverpool thugs', well I feel ashamed to even muddy myself by engaging with that sort of crap but I'll give it a go. The hooligans who were responsible for 39 deaths at Heysel were identified and convicted. There was not an establishment, victim blaming cover-up. The people who died at Hillsborough are not the same people who committed offences at Heysel. They merely happened to support the same football club. Don't let your hatred for the city and football club of Liverpool cloud this issue ffs. It could have been ANY of us. There was nearly a very similar incident with Spurs fans in 1981. If the draw had gone the other way, it could have been OUR fans in 1984. It could have been anyone- Liverpool fans were unlucky in that it was them. Stop blaming the victims and associating them with Heysel. Start seeing Hillsborough for what it really is.

So you're saying because the people responsible for Heysel were convicted we shouldn't remember those who died?

Oh grow up you fool. Yes that is what we are saying that those people who died don't matter.

Well why don't we remember them then?

 

[Bristol Rich]

The majority of people partaking in a minutes silence aren't doing it out of political motive, or out of rage.

Leave the politics in the courtroom and let's just think about the 96 people who lost their lives.

If the politics were left in the courtroom 25 years ago then there would definitely have been no justice for the 96. Which is what the establishment wanted, by seeking justice we can try to honour the 96 who died at a football match. There should be rage that a civilized western country had corruption right at the heart of the establishment.

 

[Bristol Rich]

Were other victims of disasters repeatedly blamed for their own deaths? Did they die due to establishment incompetence? Was there then a systematic campaign of media, police and government lies to discredit them? Are the people responsible still walking the streets today without any reprecussions?

Just think about it- there's a reason why Hillsborough is different. It is the single biggest scandal in English football history.

As for talk of 'Heysel murders by those Liverpool thugs', well I feel ashamed to even muddy myself by engaging with that sort of crap but I'll give it a go. The hooligans who were responsible for 39 deaths at Heysel were identified and convicted. There was not an establishment, victim blaming cover-up. The people who died at Hillsborough are not the same people who committed offences at Heysel. They merely happened to support the same football club. Don't let your hatred for the city and football club of Liverpool cloud this issue ffs. It could have been ANY of us. There was nearly a very similar incident with Spurs fans in 1981. If the draw had gone the other way, it could have been OUR fans in 1984. It could have been anyone- Liverpool fans were unlucky in that it was them. Stop blaming the victims and associating them with Heysel. Start seeing Hillsborough for what it really is.

So you're saying because the people responsible for Heysel were convicted we shouldn't remember those who died?

Oh grow up you fool. Yes that is what we are saying that those people who died don't matter.

Well why don't we remember them then?

Well maybe we should but at no point does anyone suggest apart from you that they don't matter.

 

[GreenSam]

Were other victims of disasters repeatedly blamed for their own deaths? Did they die due to establishment incompetence? Was there then a systematic campaign of media, police and government lies to discredit them? Are the people responsible still walking the streets today without any reprecussions?

Just think about it- there's a reason why Hillsborough is different. It is the single biggest scandal in English football history.

As for talk of 'Heysel murders by those Liverpool thugs', well I feel ashamed to even muddy myself by engaging with that sort of crap but I'll give it a go. The hooligans who were responsible for 39 deaths at Heysel were identified and convicted. There was not an establishment, victim blaming cover-up. The people who died at Hillsborough are not the same people who committed offences at Heysel. They merely happened to support the same football club. Don't let your hatred for the city and football club of Liverpool cloud this issue ffs. It could have been ANY of us. There was nearly a very similar incident with Spurs fans in 1981. If the draw had gone the other way, it could have been OUR fans in 1984. It could have been anyone- Liverpool fans were unlucky in that it was them. Stop blaming the victims and associating them with Heysel. Start seeing Hillsborough for what it really is.

So you're saying because the people responsible for Heysel were convicted we shouldn't remember those who died?

Not at all what I'm saying but we shouldn't derail Hillsborough to essentially say nothing more than 'HA, WHAT ABOUT HEYSEL THOUGH?'.

Remember it on its own day and don't use it as a stick to beat Hillsborough with.

 

[PAFC94]

Were other victims of disasters repeatedly blamed for their own deaths? Did they die due to establishment incompetence? Was there then a systematic campaign of media, police and government lies to discredit them? Are the people responsible still walking the streets today without any reprecussions?

Just think about it- there's a reason why Hillsborough is different. It is the single biggest scandal in English football history.

As for talk of 'Heysel murders by those Liverpool thugs', well I feel ashamed to even muddy myself by engaging with that sort of crap but I'll give it a go. The hooligans who were responsible for 39 deaths at Heysel were identified and convicted. There was not an establishment, victim blaming cover-up. The people who died at Hillsborough are not the same people who committed offences at Heysel. They merely happened to support the same football club. Don't let your hatred for the city and football club of Liverpool cloud this issue ffs. It could have been ANY of us. There was nearly a very similar incident with Spurs fans in 1981. If the draw had gone the other way, it could have been OUR fans in 1984. It could have been anyone- Liverpool fans were unlucky in that it was them. Stop blaming the victims and associating them with Heysel. Start seeing Hillsborough for what it really is.

So you're saying because the people responsible for Heysel were convicted we shouldn't remember those who died?

Oh grow up you fool. Yes that is what we are saying that those people who died don't matter.

Well why don't we remember them then?

Well maybe we should but at no point does anyone suggest apart from you that they don't matter.

We certainly should, I have every sympathy for everyone who has died in any footballing disaster and their families but by acknowledging and isolating one incident i feel it is disrespecting those victims who are not receiving the same recognition. We either remember all of them or none of them it's as simple as that.

 

[young green]

Unfortunately there were four morons stood behind me who definitely need to learn about respect. Aged about 14-16 whispering to each other, about Hillsborough and laughing. disgusting behaviour from the four in Devonport row T block 3

 

[Andy Holland]

Did you say anything to them? Did anyone?

 

[young green]

Words were said, but unfortunately i don't feel it will teach them a single thing...

 

[Cobi Budge.]

What a ridiculous thing to say, a single tragic incident which happened over 20 years ago, involving a tiny percentage of the UK police force, doesn't automatically mean we have "a stinking police force".

That is just belittling the 13 000+ excellent police officers we have.

I think we have an excellent force, and I believe they deserve so much more credit & appreciation than we give.

 

[RichieB]

What a ridiculous thing to say, a single tragic incident which happened over 20 years ago, involving a tiny percentage of the UK police force, doesn't automatically mean we have "a stinking police force".

That is just belittling the 13 000+ excellent police officers we have.

I think we have an excellent force, and I believe they deserve so much more credit & appreciation than we give.

As an ex Police officer, some comments are beyond what I expect, I can tell you my ex collegues are good people and I find certain peoples views insulting , I am in favour of more investigations into police matters but , we have a police force any country in the leading G10 would be proud of......

 

[IJN]

Yep, 100% agreed.

What it DOES prove is that the police involved in that match were bent, and it also confirmed what most of us knew who were around at the time that the police forces at that time treated all football fans as scum (BCFC v Argyle anybody) and it was just a question of time before fatalities would happen.

These days, we can be proud of most of our police officers.

I'd also ask people like Bristol Rich to remember, when you need help (car accident break in etc), who are the FIRST people you call?

 

[UncleBuck]

What a ridiculous thing to say, a single tragic incident which happened over 20 years ago, involving a tiny percentage of the UK police force, doesn't automatically mean we have "a stinking police force".

That is just belittling the 13 000+ excellent police officers we have.

I think we have an excellent force, and I believe they deserve so much more credit & appreciation than we give.

Agreed 100% and I'm not a police officer and I've got a reason to hate the law seeing as I'm facing pending action for 'speeding' at a breakneck 38mph in a 30 zone on a deserted dual lane Outland Road at 5:30am!

Hillsborough 25 years later, should not be used as ammo by those who were born to hate the police to attack the police of today.

 

[Bristol Rich]

What a ridiculous thing to say, a single tragic incident which happened over 20 years ago, involving a tiny percentage of the UK police force, doesn't automatically mean we have "a stinking police force".

That is just belittling the 13 000+ excellent police officers we have.

I think we have an excellent force, and I believe they deserve so much more credit & appreciation than we give.

As an ex Police officer, some comments are beyond what I expect, I can tell you my ex collegues are good people and I find certain peoples views insulting , I am in favour of more investigations into police matters but , we have a police force any country in the leading G10 would be proud of......

Well as an ex police officer I fully understand your position and your wish to defend your profession and it's a fair point to say my point was very generalised and perhaps unfair. There would be very many police officers whom I'm sure are doing a difficult honest job. However for Cobi to say one single incident is factually incorrect. The Miners Strike, Hillsborough, Stephen Lawrence murder and then think about how easily we all say all politicians are corrupt when we think about corruption such as the expenses scandel. That is another example of a generalisation, but yet it is commonly done, it will take years for the reputation of the police to recover I'm afraid, much like our politicians.

Here is a question to you, do you accept that the behavior by the South Yorkshie police was beyond the pale in blamming the Liverpool fans soley for Hillsborough?

 

[Andy Holland]

Rich, if you're thinking Cobi knows much at all about it, I think you're probably in for a bit of a shock.


Why has this thread become about the merits of the South Yorkshire police? It was just to see if anyone knew the scumbag who thought it was clever to shout abuse during the silence.

 

[Cobi Budge.]

Rich, if you're thinking Cobi knows much at all about it, I think you're probably in for a bit of a shock.


Why has this thread become about the merits of the South Yorkshire police? It was just to see if anyone knew the scumbag who thought it was clever to shout abuse during the silence.

You go out of your way on every possible occasion to dig at me and satisfy your grudge by making up things when you know nothing about me, quite pathetic.