GAS Board or Trust Scrutiny plus Supporters Umbrella Group? | PASOTI
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GAS Board or Trust Scrutiny plus Supporters Umbrella Group?

May 3, 2007
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Liskeard, Cornwall
This is a copy of my response sent to David Wheeler, following the meetings re the GAS Board.

GAS Board or Trust Scrutiny plus Supporters' Umbrella Group?

Having attended the two meetings of the group discussing setting up the GAS Board (GASB), I increasingly feel that there is a need to divide representation of supporters with the club into two: the strategic and the operational. I set out here why I think this is the case.

What has been plain in the two GASB discussions is that:
1. During these meetings there has been an inability to derive agreement on the objectives of the GASB and, to be honest, a lack of excitement around the issue (perhaps because it has been so difficult to nail down its purpose).
2. Where people have put objectives for the GASB forward these have revolved around giving supporters a voice within the club, and achieving scrutiny of the Board’s actions in running the club.

These are both vital and to be welcomed but feel that the following points are relevant:
1. What is to be scrutinised – the overall direction of the club as being run by the Directors, or the day to day matters like pricing, accessibility, concessions, football matters (where appropriate)? Well, both probably.
2. If this (both) is the case then I feel there is a need for two separate mechanisms:
a. An independent, formalised oversight of strategic issues surrounding PAFC’s continued existence and overall business strategy. This is precisely what the Argyle Fans’ Trust was set up to do and its unique independence protects it from interference. I believe that the Trust should seek meetings with James Brent and the rest of the Board to establish the modus operandi of such a scrutiny arrangement, including boundaries and confidentiality issues, alongside an enthusiastic take-up of the 20% share offer that James has made.
b. An umbrella group representing supporters of all persuasions (I am far from persuaded of the mythical 20,000 that David Wheeler talks about – some or many of them will come/return according to our league position and the club’s commercial/marketing effectiveness – they can join a supporters’ group/s as they wish then). This umbrella group could meet a few times a year to discuss operational issues. I don’t believe the Trust should have any role in this (of course Trust members could be part of it e.g. via Senior Greens or the Plymouth Supporters Club). This umbrella group instead should a combination of elected and representative (drawn from existing groups, maybe with one or two places reserved for those who don’t want to be part of / represented by, these groups who would be elected directly).

In conclusion, James Brent’s offer of consultation with supporters is enormously welcome; it is an opportunity that should not be missed and David Wheeler’s facilitation is gratefully acknowledged. But I think that splitting it in the way I am suggesting would result in the balance between independent scrutiny and friendly liaison, and would cover short and longer term objectives, the most important of which is to ensure that if (when) a less benevolent owner than James steps into the HP Boardroom, we are as well positioned as possible to look after our destiny.

Peter Ryan, 3rd March 2012
 
L

Laughter My Ploy

Guest
Excellent proposal. And addresses a goodly number of issues. Even the fact that there have been no responses to your post points to how moribund the issue of the Gasboard is to most supporters and even to those involved in the process.
 
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grovehill

Guest
I'm all in favour of a broad cross section of fans having some input/discussions with the club, but does anyone really believe that the GAS board will have any influence on the strategic objectives of the Board?

If the Gasboard had said three months ago that they opposed the selling off of the remaining property assets, as this would reduce the overall worth of the football club do you think they would have influenced the Board (87% Brent owned)?

Would the Gas board have been able to pressure the BrentBoard into keeping Gordon Bennett at the Club in some way?

I mention these two events as they are (bar relegation) the most important developments at Home Park since Brent bought the club + property.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Quite extraordinary really, PC's last phrase was ' I think most fair minded people think that out new owner is a decent man with good intent' and then Ernie crops up with his usual narrative.
 

TCM

Jun 7, 2011
616
0
grovehill":1xl7bkf1 said:
I'm all in favour of a broad cross section of fans having some input/discussions with the club, but does anyone really believe that the GAS board will have any influence on the strategic objectives of the Board?

If the Gasboard had said three months ago that they opposed the selling off of the remaining property assets, as this would reduce the overall worth of the football club do you think they would have influenced the Board (87% Brent owned)?

Would the Gas board have been able to pressure the BrentBoard into keeping Gordon Bennett at the Club in some way?

I mention these two events as they are (bar relegation) the most important developments at Home Park since Brent bought the club + property.
so who said the gas board would have influence?,,for my money it would be there to report back to the fan base,then the fan base can do what it needs to do,
 
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grovehill

Guest
If they have no influence, what's their raison d'etre?

Just read the announcements on the OS.


I see stairpost has managed to avoid answering the question again.
 

TCM

Jun 7, 2011
616
0
grovehill":3i67rrht said:
If they have no influence, what's their raison d'etre?

Just read the announcements on the OS.


I see stairpost has managed to avoid answering the question again.
eyes on the board,thats what i would like the gas board to be,,,,what do you want it to be ?
 
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grovehill

Guest
I struggle to see the point of having a group that keeps it's "eye on the board" but cannot affect decisions taken thereon.

Rather like refereeing a match but not having a whistle!

The GAS board will be good PR for the Club though.

In a way football (certainly football business as opposed to the game) is getting more like politics-all gloss and spin with no depth.

As in, "Plymouth Argyle, the club that was saved by fans, as well as having a grassroots fan as President now has a Supervisory Board, made of of supporters, that monitors the decisions of the Club's Board and makes recommendations as to policy"

When the reality is more like "Plymouth Argyle the football club that was bought as part of a property deal to enable a hotel to be built in a prime location is 85% owned by one man, who has no previous interest in football, narrowly escapes relegation from the football league despite having a novice manager and relying on free transfers of "seasoned pros" to ensure their survival"

Both statements as true as each other, just "spun" differently
 
Sep 20, 2003
1,941
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grovehill":1lejl6yg said:
I struggle to see the point of having a group that keeps it's "eye on the board" but cannot affect decisions taken thereon.

Rather like refereeing a match but not having a whistle!

The GAS board will be good PR for the Club though.

In a way football (certainly football business as opposed to the game) is getting more like politics-all gloss and spin with no depth.

As in, "Plymouth Argyle, the club that was saved by fans, as well as having a grassroots fan as President now has a Supervisory Board, made of of supporters, that monitors the decisions of the Club's Board and makes recommendations as to policy"

When the reality is more like "Plymouth Argyle the football club that was bought as part of a property deal to enable a hotel to be built in a prime location is 85% owned by one man, who has no previous interest in football, narrowly escapes relegation from the football league despite having a novice manager and relying on free transfers of "seasoned pros" to ensure their survival"

Both statements as true as each other, just "spun" differently

If I was an outsider I would say that one statement was written by an Argyle supporter and the other not.
 

TCM

Jun 7, 2011
616
0
grovehill":17b9q8gx said:
I struggle to see the point of having a group that keeps it's "eye on the board" but cannot affect decisions taken thereon.

Rather like refereeing a match but not having a whistle!

The GAS board will be good PR for the Club though.

In a way football (certainly football business as opposed to the game) is getting more like politics-all gloss and spin with no depth.

As in, "Plymouth Argyle, the club that was saved by fans, as well as having a grassroots fan as President now has a Supervisory Board, made of of supporters, that monitors the decisions of the Club's Board and makes recommendations as to policy"

When the reality is more like "Plymouth Argyle the football club that was bought as part of a property deal to enable a hotel to be built in a prime location is 85% owned by one man, who has no previous interest in football, narrowly escapes relegation from the football league despite having a novice manager and relying on free transfers of "seasoned pros" to ensure their survival"

Both statements as true as each other, just "spun" differently
if you struggle to see the point in keeping eyes on the board why not form your own group ?,anyway like i said, what was it you would like the gas board to be?and do you have anything usefull to add to the debate?god your allways in a right old mood :lol: everone gets in a mood but with you its constant,,perhaps have a chat with your doc?honestly its not normal,,
 
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grovehill

Guest
By it's very nature, a Supervisory board set up at the instigation of the owner of the club is going to struggle to be anything like truly independent.

The Trust, in terms of questioning the owner is also unlikely to be independent due to so many of the same people being involved with the trust and the CP'ers. Most of Pasoti also seems to fall into the "Brent can do no wrong" camp.

If supporters (not just those who post on internet fan sites) want a group to represent them/scrutinize the actions of then club than a truly
"Independent Supporters Group" set up and run without any involvement of Club, Trust, Internet geeks etc. would be required.
 

TCM

Jun 7, 2011
616
0
grovehill":1t9qyk52 said:
By it's very nature, a Supervisory board set up at the instigation of the owner of the club is going to struggle to be anything like truly independent.

The Trust, in terms of questioning the owner is also unlikely to be independent due to so many of the same people being involved with the trust and the CP'ers. Most of Pasoti also seems to fall into the "Brent can do no wrong" camp.

If supporters (not just those who post on internet fan sites) want a group to represent them/scrutinize the actions of then club than a truly
"Independent Supporters Group" set up and run without any involvement of Club, Trust, Internet geeks etc. would be required.
you seem to have a lot to say for yourself,what you waiting for?,,,or is it just talk with you.i suppose to start your own group your gona need a couple of mates,is that whats holding you back?
 

Ponty

English and proud of it
Staff member
R.I.P
Sep 27, 2006
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Plymouth
totnes comie mike":77v0bhhl said:
grovehill":77v0bhhl said:
By it's very nature, a Supervisory board set up at the instigation of the owner of the club is going to struggle to be anything like truly independent.

The Trust, in terms of questioning the owner is also unlikely to be independent due to so many of the same people being involved with the trust and the CP'ers. Most of Pasoti also seems to fall into the "Brent can do no wrong" camp.

If supporters (not just those who post on internet fan sites) want a group to represent them/scrutinize the actions of then club than a truly
"Independent Supporters Group" set up and run without any involvement of Club, Trust, Internet geeks etc. would be required.
you seem to have a lot to say for yourself,what you waiting for?,,,or is it just talk with you.i suppose to start your own group your gona need a couple of mates,is that whats holding you back?

:funny: :funny:
 
May 3, 2007
2,262
0
65
Liskeard, Cornwall
Laughter My Ploy":1w0q5ag6 said:
Excellent proposal. And addresses a goodly number of issues. Even the fact that there have been no responses to your post points to how moribund the issue of the Gasboard is to most supporters and even to those involved in the process.

Thanks LMP - I agree that a lack of response may be indicative of the rather tired nature of the process. Then I saw the heap of responses bur see that, once again, one or two anonynous posters have polluted this thread, as many others, with their standard negativity.

Sadly, PASOTI is becoming much devalued by this and is diminishing in its usefulness and interest as a result.