AFT statement on HHP development and **new update 19th Sept*

[Ade the green]

The Fans Trust don't speak for me.

I want the HP Grandstand built/refurbished.

The hotel has no impact on HP whatsoever.

The Developement at HHP will IMHO mean a greater footfall of people coming to Central Park and will lead to a vibrant area for leisure activities which include Home Park and Argyle.

I have no axe to grind with JB making a fortune with his proposed developement because as we saw with the Grandstand proposal alone it enhances Argyle's revenue potential.

 

[IJN]

I think Tony's heart is in the right place, but let's face it, the same people are still there in the background.

Some of the past Chairmen have been good blokes. Wozzer, Bob, Graham, Webby, Jim etc, but the anti brigade are still there plugging away.

Say the AFT have 500 members (pure guesswork) and say 50 of them have objected, does that mean 450 are ambivalent or supportive of the development?

Then add to that we probably have, what 35,000 people that take an active interest in PAFC?

Not exactly representative of Argyle fans is it?

Look at the list of objectors (25 people) all the usual names are there, with a few waiting in the wings waiting for the dramatic grand gesture I assume.

There's some good people on the board I'm sure, but by God there's some egocentric wannabes as well.

People have to go with what they feel happy with but I know what I'm told by people and the AFT are as representative of Argyle fans as Jeremy Clarkson is of car drivers!

 

[Fat_green_belly]

Latest update

http://www.argylefanstrust.com/2017/09/ ... ts-140917/

Thanks for the update from the AFT of which I am proud to be a member.

Despite what some on here keep repeating ad nauseum, there are many many supporters who place the club above private property developments that infringe on what has always been a part of the football club and which will result in no financial benefit to the club.

Offices I ask you? Half the office blocks in the City Centre are empty as it is!

And that are many people who want the development to happen.

Why do think that the AFT can claim to talk for all fans in their statement?

As you know the AFT have a track record of not asking their members views before issuing statements. Were you consulted? How many people were consulted?

I think you are right in that the vast majority want the refurb to happen. But not at any cost.

All the AFT is doing, and quite rightly, is seeking to enforce the ACV status and not allow some random property development to ride roughshod over something that has always been of significant public interest.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion when the City's solicitor in coming to his decision to grant ACV status said that all the developments planned in the original HHP scheme, including the hotel and retail units would actually enhance and extend further the social wellbeing or social interests of the local community.

Hard to see how offices would enhance and extend social wellbeing or social interests of the local community.

Well for starters the offices help to pay for the rink which i assume you agree would extend the social wellbeing and
interests of the local community. Ditto the jobs, visitors and tourists.
I do agree with you in principle about not using offices but if no alternative then the 2 top floors of a
4 tier mixed use building i could accept. Sometimes you gotta compromise. If it was just a separate 4/5 storey office
block, that i first feared, then i would have reservations then for sure.
It may well be with talk of negotiated mitigation with highways england over traffic flow then that office space might
yet be reduced. Who knows?
"Something that has always been of significant public interest". What. A car park? You put cars and concrete before
people? I could understand the open fields behind but not a car park.

 

[Emeraldinho]

The Fans Trust don't speak for me.

I want the HP Grandstand built/refurbished.

The hotel has no impact on HP whatsoever.

The Developement at HHP will IMHO mean a greater footfall of people coming to Central Park and will lead to a vibrant area for leisure activities which include Home Park and Argyle.

I have no axe to grind with JB making a fortune with his proposed developement because as we saw with the Grandstand proposal alone it enhances Argyle's revenue potential.

Well said! As IJN says, a bunch of egocentric wannabees that, I suspect, speak for very few Argyle fans. :furious:

 

[Baby Face Johnson]

Well, hopefully I'm not a usual name but with solely my Argyle fan hat on, I cannot see how anything on the HHP land will benefit Argyle in any way. In fact, it will hem in any future grandstand development, as many have already pointed out. I can see a benefit in the hotel making the conferencing more of an attractive option but the rest, no, not really.

As the grandstand refurb is already funded and not dependant upon any of the rest of the development, I cannot see why any Argyle fan would be in favour of the HHP development, at all, when all this could go elsewhere in the City (is additional office space even needed?), especially as it could put back the start of the refurb, either costing Argyle more or resulting in further cost reducton exercises on the scheme.

That may be a tad selfish, as there is an argument for Mr Brent to be able to generate a bit of profit on all the time he has invested in the club but from solely a selfish Argyle point of view, I just can't accept it all.

 

[Pogleswoody]

I haven't read all this or the other vast threads on planning and planning criteria. But, as a simple layman, my impression of an ACV was that it was designed to allow an asset to be retained? i.e. a local library continues as a library, the local pub not turned into student flats but retained and run by drinkers? That sort of thing?
Well Argyle is of 'CV' as a football club with it's home pitch. That will be retained and enhanced, all the 'other stuff' being built/proposed actually supports the ACV in my view as it helps to sustain the football club, ground and facilities.
A simple view I own, but true perhaps? :think:

 

[Ollieargyle9]

What on earth does the ACV status have to do with anything? Home Park is being enhanced with the aim of generating greater social benefit for both club and community, this is exactly what ACV status aims to achieve. Protecting community assets like pubs from being purchased just to demolish them for development and instead allowing communities to purchase them to find ways of making them profitable whilst retaining the social benefits.

The value of Home Park is found in the football club, a chance for people of all ages and backgrounds to come together on match-day to support the same team, a team that represents the city of Plymouth which brings together the entire city on days like Wembley visits, promotion parades or visits from teams like Liverpool.

A development that enhances the football club's home by providing conferencing facilities to generate income for the club whilst providing a facility for businesses to use as well as residents for weddings or community groups for events, a development that aims to provide new and improved supporters areas such as bars and restaurants for supporters to come together on match-days and for the community to use through the week, a development that includes a brand new ice rink and gym to encourage the uptake of a variety of other sports in the city, a development that includes more seats in the ground itself to allow more people to benefit from the value generated by Home Park as an asset, a development that provides a hotel to encourage more people to visit the city, generate tourist income on a whole new side of the city, providing a facility to encourage more away fans to visit by providing a place to stay on the club's doorstep.

This development is what ACV is all about, protecting a community asset to allow it to progress and thrive in the modern world so that business wealth and community value can be generated alongside one-another. So that community assets can continue to generate value for their community whilst becoming equipped to generate the profits needed to keep them solvent. ACV is not a time bubble, pubs protected by them aren't standing still, the ACV doesn't stop them adding a B&B upstairs or a brand new restaurant kitchen in the back, it encourages these upgrades to keep these places running and although Home Park isn't about to close down it still needs greater commercial income to keep up with the modern game; to achieve this by providing facilities that can be used by everybody whilst maintaining those used solely by fans is a triumph.

As with any development somebody will inevitably benefit, in this instance it will be James Brent. I honestly don't see the problem with this, it'll be him that bears all the risk of the wider development not the club so he should benefit from their rewards. The club has neither the cash nor the will to build a hotel, gym, ice rink or office on the site so it's of no loss if JB gets there first. The club does stand to indirectly benefit from these things being on site, a hotel next door to our new conference facilities, a gym the club's players can use, restaurants and eateries that allow fans to make a day of going to Home Park. None of it is the club's but we benefit from facilities that ordinarily wouldn't be there. It seems completely farcical, bordering on Two Ronnie's sketch worthy for people to be arguing over a development because of a few car parking spaces when there is a massive park and ride facility in touching distance of the stadium.

 

[gaspargomez]

As the grandstand refurb is already funded and not dependant upon any of the rest of the development, I cannot see why any Argyle fan would be in favour of the HHP development, at all, when all this could go elsewhere in the City (is additional office space even needed?), especially as it could put back the start of the refurb, either costing Argyle more or resulting in further cost reducton exercises on the scheme..

I think that if the grandstand proposal was submitted as a separate planning application then most people would support it and it would gain planning permission very quickly. James Brent would know that.

A hotel, office, retail units and even the ice rink is bound to be controversial in a parkland area. As an individual proposal it is far from certain whether the Council could support it. I certainly don't support it for all sorts of reasons.

But by combining the grandstand refurbishment with the commercial developments, James Brent is attempting to pressure the Council into approving the whole package.

So its a bit devious of him I think.

 

[HC Green]

As the grandstand refurb is already funded and not dependant upon any of the rest of the development, I cannot see why any Argyle fan would be in favour of the HHP development, at all, when all this could go elsewhere in the City (is additional office space even needed?), especially as it could put back the start of the refurb, either costing Argyle more or resulting in further cost reducton exercises on the scheme..

I think that if the grandstand proposal was submitted as a separate planning application then most people would support it and it would gain planning permission very quickly. James Brent would know that.

A hotel, office, retail units and even the ice rink is bound to be controversial in a parkland area. As an individual proposal it is far from certain whether the Council could support it. I certainly don't support it for all sorts of reasons.

But by combining the grandstand refurbishment with the commercial developments, James Brent is attempting to pressure the Council into approving the whole package.

So its a bit devious of him I think.

The area being developed is hardly parkland, a piece of rough ground, run down portakabins and an existing kennels and building, situated between car parks and the Life Centre.

 

[Pogleswoody]

As the grandstand refurb is already funded and not dependant upon any of the rest of the development, I cannot see why any Argyle fan would be in favour of the HHP development, at all, when all this could go elsewhere in the City (is additional office space even needed?), especially as it could put back the start of the refurb, either costing Argyle more or resulting in further cost reducton exercises on the scheme..

I think that if the grandstand proposal was submitted as a separate planning application then most people would support it and it would gain planning permission very quickly. James Brent would know that.

A hotel, office, retail units and even the ice rink is bound to be controversial in a parkland area. As an individual proposal it is far from certain whether the Council could support it. I certainly don't support it for all sorts of reasons.

But by combining the grandstand refurbishment with the commercial developments, James Brent is attempting to pressure the Council into approving the whole package.

So its a bit devious of him I think.

Successful Local Businessman faces shock accusation of being 'devious'!! OMG!! :shock:

I'm not very devious. I am broke tho'!! :lol:

 

[Kentishgreen]

With friends like these who needs enemies. Who makes money just out of football?

 

[Baby Face Johnson]

As the grandstand refurb is already funded and not dependant upon any of the rest of the development, I cannot see why any Argyle fan would be in favour of the HHP development, at all, when all this could go elsewhere in the City (is additional office space even needed?), especially as it could put back the start of the refurb, either costing Argyle more or resulting in further cost reducton exercises on the scheme..

I think that if the grandstand proposal was submitted as a separate planning application then most people would support it and it would gain planning permission very quickly. James Brent would know that.

A hotel, office, retail units and even the ice rink is bound to be controversial in a parkland area. As an individual proposal it is far from certain whether the Council could support it. I certainly don't support it for all sorts of reasons.

But by combining the grandstand refurbishment with the commercial developments, James Brent is attempting to pressure the Council into approving the whole package.

So its a bit devious of him I think.

The area being developed is hardly parkland, a piece of rough ground, run down portakabins and an existing kennels and building, situated between car parks and the Life Centre.

What if we reached the Premiership and could afford to double the size of the stand and thus its footprint?

{stop sniggering at the back}

 

[Stuart House]

The trust is not representative and never has been.

500 members out of 35,000 who went to Wembly?. It is the same old names and it is BORING AF to be honest. Free Chat continues to make my eyes bleed, but is amusing, by the sheer aggression and blinkered belief that some of these people have towards Brent's supposed misguided intentions.

Whilst Brent is not perfect, and I disagree with the Hyrbid planning application, the way some people go on you would think he was a Venky or an Oyston.

 

[HC Green]

As the grandstand refurb is already funded and not dependant upon any of the rest of the development, I cannot see why any Argyle fan would be in favour of the HHP development, at all, when all this could go elsewhere in the City (is additional office space even needed?), especially as it could put back the start of the refurb, either costing Argyle more or resulting in further cost reducton exercises on the scheme..

I think that if the grandstand proposal was submitted as a separate planning application then most people would support it and it would gain planning permission very quickly. James Brent would know that.

A hotel, office, retail units and even the ice rink is bound to be controversial in a parkland area. As an individual proposal it is far from certain whether the Council could support it. I certainly don't support it for all sorts of reasons.

But by combining the grandstand refurbishment with the commercial developments, James Brent is attempting to pressure the Council into approving the whole package.

So its a bit devious of him I think.

The area being developed is hardly parkland, a piece of rough ground, run down portakabins and an existing kennels and building, situated between car parks and the Life Centre.

What if we reached the Premiership and could afford to double the size of the stand and thus its footprint?

{stop sniggering at the back}

Unfortunately Argyle would never get planning permission due to people objecting on the grounds of lack of parking, increased traffic and the building being too tall.

 

[Guiri Green]

Other than a Car Park, I've not seen any suggestion of what develpment there would benefit the Club. It's private land with a planning application on it.

Depending on your point of view, you have the right to support or object via the system as you desire. It bugs me if people are objecting and trying to stop it as part of some sort of agenda / vendetta or revenge against somebody just because 'they can'. It detracts from and dilutes the opinions of genuine objectors. Nothing worse than your beliefs being used as a football in someones petty games.

I'm not sure what the ACV applies to. Is it the actual bricks and mortar or the institution that is PAFC ? Hopfully not the former as everytime I've ever been in the Grandstand it smelt of damp wood. Get rid as soon as I say.

The suggestion of the Grandstand being hemmed in makes me smile a bit as, although I'm no expert on Grandstand building, I think it would be one heck of large one to need its footprint to spread as far back as the slowly disintegrating portakabins there now. Assuming the long term plan isnt to rival the Camp Nou !

Never joined the AFT because it gives the impression of being slightly disorganised and reading these threads, a little undemocratic in it's decision on 'policy' . A vehicle for a small group of people perhaps ? Much the same as any other group claiming to represent the 'Fanbase'.

Personally, I'd rather not see the extra office accommodation if it's not being utilised by the Club, I'd rather the sporting element and lifestyle theme of the area be maintained, but, the Ice Rink probably wont pay for itself and the develpors costs will want to be recouped.