Recruitment (in January)

[Railway sleeper]

No evidence? Where is the striker we have been crying out for since the end of last season? How was Foster selected? Data analysis is only a recruitment tool like psychometric and skill assessments.

Im really not sure what data driven recruitment has got to do with us not signing a striker or appointing ian foster ??

The appointment of ian foster is evidence of why we need to use more data driven recruitment. He is proof of what happens if you swop a data driven approach for a contacts based system of recruitment.

The signings of james wilson and dan scarr are evidence of what sort of players you can unearth using a data driven approach- both very good signings for us at the time, following our first season back in the efl1 - and struggled badly to stay in the division that season

Both wilson and scarr strengthened our starting 11- having been signed using a data driven approach

Data driven works- that's been proven

I do agree that we also need to use other methods as well

An issue might well be - and perhaps this may come out in time- that targets may well have been identified to improve our 11 in the championship... which we then find we cant afford. It will be interesting to hear if this is true.And if so - perhaps this would explain why we dont seem to be using it so much.

I do think we are loaning in too many young players- and although some are very good some are also not.And few, in my opinion, are consistently up to championship standard.Thats my personal opinion.

It's my long standing opinion that we should be using a data driven approach scouting in non league. we had loads of success with this over the years unearthing the likes of dwight Marshall, craig noone, paul mariner and many, many, many more ...

This is what accrington did so successfully in signing darius charles and colby bishop

This for me is what data driven is all about.... unearthing hidden gems from unfashionable clubs.Whatever division Argyle end up in next season I do hope we will start to see more of these type of players sign for the club....

 

[Said old Green]

Im really not sure what data driven recruitment has got to do with us not signing a striker or appointing ian foster ??

The appointment of ian foster is evidence of why we need to use more data driven recruitment. He is proof of what happens if you swop a data driven approach for a contacts based system of recruitment.

The signings of james wilson and dan scarr are evidence of what sort of players you can unearth using a data driven approach- both very good signings for us at the time, following our first season back in the efl1 - and struggled badly to stay in the division that season

Both wilson and scarr strengthened our starting 11- having been signed using a data driven approach

Data driven works- that's been proven

I do agree that we also need to use other methods as well

An issue might well be - and perhaps this may come out in time- that targets may well have been identified to improve our 11 in the championship... which we then find we cant afford. It will be interesting to hear if this is true.And if so - perhaps this would explain why we dont seem to be using it so much.

I do think we are loaning in too many young players- and although some are very good some are also not.And few, in my opinion, are consistently up to championship standard.Thats my personal opinion.

It's my long standing opinion that we should be using a data driven approach scouting in non league. we had loads of success with this over the years unearthing the likes of dwight Marshall, craig noone, paul mariner and many, many, many more ...

This is what accrington did so successfully in signing darius charles and colby bishop

This for me is what data driven is all about.... unearthing hidden gems from unfashionable clubs.Whatever division Argyle end up in next season I do hope we will start to see more of these type of players sign for the club....

I agree with all this.

Having quite a few young players on loan that we have no prospect of signing permanently is like building your house on sand

 

[GreenEden]

One could argue that it’s been the price of success.

But while budget is a major issue it’s not just a coincidence that the decline started mid-season.

Nothing to do with being ‘sussed out’ as someone put it, simply down to outgoings and incomings - players and leadership. We put faith in one man - probably quite rightly - the problem was that it was the wrong man.

I guess Forshaw must be the issue here then
I don't see how Phillips Gyabi and divine would cost as much in wages as sorinola kkh Azaz and cundle add to that finance from SS leaving and fee for Macca and release of wages from butcher where has the money gone if not in Forshaws pockets

 

[Argyleloyal]

No evidence? Where is the striker we have been crying out for since the end of last season? How was Foster selected? Data analysis is only a recruitment tool like psychometric and skill assessments.

The striker is in the treatment room at Middlesbrough

 

[TimHarris]

I agree with all this.

Having quite a few young players on loan that we have no prospect of signing permanently is like building your house on sand

Andrew Parkinson was quite firm about the benefits of the loan model we use and he is correct.

The issue we created is that with Azaz and Cundle we became vulnerable to the creative heart being ripped out of the team in very short order. The lesson for me is that no one aspect of the team should be 100% reliant on loan players.

 

[oldage]

Im really not sure what data driven recruitment has got to do with us not signing a striker or appointing ian foster ??

The appointment of ian foster is evidence of why we need to use more data driven recruitment. He is proof of what happens if you swop a data driven approach for a contacts based system of recruitment.

The signings of james wilson and dan scarr are evidence of what sort of players you can unearth using a data driven approach- both very good signings for us at the time, following our first season back in the efl1 - and struggled badly to stay in the division that season

Both wilson and scarr strengthened our starting 11- having been signed using a data driven approach

Data driven works- that's been proven

I do agree that we also need to use other methods as well

An issue might well be - and perhaps this may come out in time- that targets may well have been identified to improve our 11 in the championship... which we then find we cant afford. It will be interesting to hear if this is true.And if so - perhaps this would explain why we dont seem to be using it so much.

I do think we are loaning in too many young players- and although some are very good some are also not.And few, in my opinion, are consistently up to championship standard.Thats my personal opinion.

It's my long standing opinion that we should be using a data driven approach scouting in non league. we had loads of success with this over the years unearthing the likes of dwight Marshall, craig noone, paul mariner and many, many, many more ...

This is what accrington did so successfully in signing darius charles and colby bishop

This for me is what data driven is all about.... unearthing hidden gems from unfashionable clubs.Whatever division Argyle end up in next season I do hope we will start to see more of these type of players sign for the club....

IMO if the data is not applicable to our club and it’s lack of resources what is the point? Scarr has proved to be dependable but I never really rated Wilson. What we will never know is whether traditional scouting would have reaped similar rewards. I am not against data being used but only where the information gleaned is of tangible benefit to the club. In the last two transfer windows I have my doubts.

 

[Jon with no H]

IMO if the data is not applicable to our club and it’s lack of resources what is the point? Scarr has proved to be dependable but I never really rated Wilson. What we will never know is whether traditional scouting would have reaped similar rewards. I am not against data being used but only where the information gleaned is of tangible benefit to the club. In the last two transfer windows I have my doubts.

The point is the club doesn't have the means to send dozens of scouts all over the world to try to unearth players, and technology being what it is now, they don't have to do that in any event.

It's not the data that's the issue when it's just a list of players and the various metrics against which they're measured.

The decisions made off the back of analysing that data are the issue. That would still be a problem whether the information is in the form of a scouting report or the result of more remote analysis.

At one point earlier in the season, Neil Dewsnip didn't seem to share our collective concern that only having out and out number 9 is a bit risky. I remember him saying at a press conference we only play with one striker so there wasn't necessarily a need to bring any others in.

 

[Said old Green]

The point is the club doesn't have the means to send dozens of scouts all over the world to try to unearth players, and technology being what it is now, they don't have to do that in any event.

It's not the data that's the issue when it's just a list of players and the various metrics against which they're measured.

The decisions made off the back of analysing that data are the issue. That would still be a problem whether the information is in the form of a scouting report or the result of more remote analysis.

At one point earlier in the season, Neil Dewsnip didn't seem to share our collective concern that only having out and out number 9 is a bit risky. I remember him saying at a press conference we only play with one striker so there wasn't necessarily a need to bring any others in.

So Foster wasn't his only error this season

 

[oldage]

The point is the club doesn't have the means to send dozens of scouts all over the world to try to unearth players, and technology being what it is now, they don't have to do that in any event.

It's not the data that's the issue when it's just a list of players and the various metrics against which they're measured.

The decisions made off the back of analysing that data are the issue. That would still be a problem whether the information is in the form of a scouting report or the result of more remote analysis.

At one point earlier in the season, Neil Dewsnip didn't seem to share our collective concern that only having out and out number 9 is a bit risky. I remember him saying at a press conference we only play with one striker so there wasn't necessarily a need to bring any others in.

Nobody has suggested scouts all over the world but I am not even sure if we have any? The other thing I do not understand is that if every club has a data driven approach how big an advantage is that? Surely somebody attending games and compiling reports and witnessing how players perform is advantageous. It would be interesting to know how our experts interpret the information . I am far from convinced that this approach is not just a fad and similar to VAR is over rated.

 

[Jon with no H]

Nobody has suggested scouts all over the world but I am not even sure if we have any? The other thing I do not understand is that if every club has a data driven approach how big an advantage is that? Surely somebody attending games and compiling reports and witnessing how players perform is advantageous. It would be interesting to know how our experts interpret the information . I am far from convinced that this approach is not just a fad and similar to VAR is over rated.

It's anything but a fad, it's huge business, given the resources of the people who own Brighton and Brentford who started out providing the data, to name but two.

All the games are recorded and then the information is collated by the kind of agency that Argyle retains to collect data. The club then works out what metrics it wants to focus on, and analysts sift through the information to find people who do well in whatever field it may be that the club is looking for - Dan Scarr is probably the only player where I have heard anyone say specifically what metric they looked at when they found him.

It doesn't tell you anything about the human being behind the statistics, but then again, just going to scout a match won't always tell you a great deal either. That's where you have to find out about character and the like through less technological means.

 

[Montybulldog]

Whatever way you cut it out budget was not big enough to sustain Championship football

No one's fault but it's reality.

Even more reason to invest at the right time, and knowing Argyle had a small squad the majority of which had never played at this level, it makes even more sense to divide the budget to allow argyle to strengthen along the way.

The biggest gamble we took was taking the same approach that worked in L2 and L1, this was a higher level you.needed to strengthen.

Secondly and i appreciate some fans, even possibly the majority wont agree with this statement, Argyle are better off looking at free agent players in.early 20's than Loanees. The risk is far less financially and if they.become a success all profits go to Argyle. Also less likely to move to a more established Championship club mid-season disrupting the structure of the squad.

Whatever way you cut it out budget was not big enough to sustain Championship football

No one's fault but it's reality.

 

[Montybulldog]

Nobody has suggested scouts all over the world but I am not even sure if we have any? The other thing I do not understand is that if every club has a data driven approach how big an advantage is that? Surely somebody attending games and compiling reports and witnessing how players perform is advantageous. It would be interesting to know how our experts interpret the information . I am far from convinced that this approach is not just a fad and similar to VAR is over rated.

Partly in agreement, it's why believe a club should be adopting both strategies rather than being guided solely by a singler policy.

 

[CarolinaGreen]

The point is the club doesn't have the means to send dozens of scouts all over the world to try to unearth players, and technology being what it is now, they don't have to do that in any event.

It's not the data that's the issue when it's just a list of players and the various metrics against which they're measured.

The decisions made off the back of analysing that data are the issue. That would still be a problem whether the information is in the form of a scouting report or the result of more remote analysis.

At one point earlier in the season, Neil Dewsnip didn't seem to share our collective concern that only having out and out number 9 is a bit risky. I remember him saying at a press conference we only play with one striker so there wasn't necessarily a need to bring any others in.

I remember at one meeting with fans (the infamous £1.50 admin fee complaint) SH said 'Well, I'm pretty sure we need another striker, don't we?', and turned to Dewsnip, who was giving SH dagger eyes and said nothing.

 

[pafcdje]

1. There's no such thing as a sure fire thing.

2. Purchasing any player is risky isn't it?

Purchasing a player when you don't have the money until next year (and that isn't a certainty) is too risky for an investor's risk parameters maybe?

The calculated risk is what will happen if you get relegated . With the increase in the TV money kicking in this year , the difference between being in L1 and the Championship is in the region of £10M .

If FA had been signed and we were relegated then in the summer all or any of MW , FA or MC could have been sold .

 

[Montybulldog]

Yep your right, it's pretty transparent of Shuey frustration and clearly he was seeing the long term picture