Let's be realistic

[pearces greens]

Many of us were on here last season saying how carp we were playing, and would love to have some entertainment only to get shouted down by the green tints saying what do you want we might be going up, but where are you now ? All of our side must be decent, you have to have something about you to be picked up by professional clubs in the first place. Adams is holding them back, I will be gutted if we go down, but id feel better if we busted a gut attacking to try and win games, rather than defending to death.

 

[Balham Green]

Ok, lets be realistic.

Let's take the results out of the debate for a min.

The football is atrocious. I have no problem with "functional" football. Sometimes passing football can be boring as Fletchers team proved. We went sideways and backways. However, just like his team, we don't play penetrating football which breaks a teams defensive back line by either pace, skill and great technique on crosses.

Adams works them hard on double training sessions and yet l often wonder why. We don't see an improvement in the way the players pass, cross or shoot the ball. We are meant to be a fit team and yet we end up retreating to the half way line in games, standing off the opposition without comitting to a tackle.

How many times have we witnessed the opposition get to the edge of our box, with no pressure on them, and able to get cross after cross into the box? Or shoot, just like Saturday on the edge of the box with nobody closing that player down. Adams talks about these things like it just happened in games and yet it happened last season and continues to do so this season.

In fact, let's be realistic. When is Adams not talking BS in his post match interviews. Often saying we deserved to win the game when for the majority of the game we can't even remember a shot on target whilst the opposition has been all over us.

Without magic goals from Carey we simply don't look like scoring. That's being realistic. That's why we are going down. If you don't score you can't win games. Let's look at the last two games. Shrewsbury were there for the taking. When we did go forward they looked shaky at the back. However, Adams decided the best form of attack is to defend. So suddenly Shrewsbury weakness at the back wasn't exploited. Just our own. Yet Adams comes out at the end of the game with how we attacked them. He is delusional at times.

Then last night. A great point but again we got battered. If we keep playing a defensive game eventually the team that attacks you will score. A great block by ATS but imagine if that went in. Suddenly, in the cold light of day people will be once again frustrated by his negative tactics. Carey's two wonder goals have masked a massive problem. We still don't look like scoring goals. You can't win games if you don't attack teams. We are always worrying about what the opposition do. Not how we are going to hurt teams.

Adams negative brand of football is just garbage to watch. He may get us out of this mess but there is more to football than just winning. Not expecting to play well every week but l do expect my team to "have a go". There are times we have lost before we have even got going simply because of our playing style.

We rarely win in style. A lot of Adams wins last year were narrow 2-1 games in which we were hanging on for dear life for the 3pts when the opposition had exposed our frailties and somehow managed not convert their dominance.

So l think l am realistic. Because l've been watching this dross for 15-18 months (from the last few months of Adams first season).

I have said give him time for two reasons.

1. Whoever comes in now can't bring in his own players

2. He got us promotion and even though l think we were very fortunate, at the end of the day he still got us up. So he deserves time to turn around the results.

However, let's be honest and realistic. He may turn around the results. Yet what he won't be doing is making us play a more positive, attacking brand of football. If we get out of this mess it will be by dour, dire negative football where we are hanging on for narrow victories. It may be the football some people want to see, but it's not for me. We can't win every week so l at least want to see my football team have a go. At the moment all l see is us giving up possession game after game whilst we wait for the opposition to score even though we have put 11 men behind the ball. Our ability to somehow not press a team when they are in our own half is one of many reasons why l find Adams tactics baffling at best. I mean how can you get the ball back if you don't press? You are relying on the opposition to make a mistake.

Like l said many times, just watch his brand of football. If you still believe in Adams then your watching a totally different game from me.

As lengthy and articulate as usual. However, at the moment I would say that there is no more to football than winning. A bit more of it and we might be able to start the easy on the eye stuff that we're craving.

You say the football is garbage (a widely held view) but then want to allow him more time ? We had all of last Season winning games unsatisfactorilly in some opinions, so we should be aware by now that as far as DA is concerned 'it ain't broke'.

The realistic view is DA is here to stay, the style won't get any more pleasing to the eye, it hopefully might become more effective and we start to win games in pretty much the same way as did to get promotion from L2.

I personally don't think he will turn it around.

However, as he got this team promotion he deserves the time to see if he can turn it around.

Just because l believe he isn't good enough, doesn't mean l wont be fair about his predicament when voicing an opinion. It's a werid view to probably have but that's why l think l'd like to think lm a reasonable fan.

Football is a cut throat business. Fairness, reasonableness etc doesn't come in to it. React too late and you are doomed. Stick with Adams(which we will) and we are going down. See you at Accrington.

 

[X Isle]

Wake up and smell the coffee mate and try and come up with something original occasionally.

Get with the programme old timer, no-one has used coffee mate since the 70's and it doesn't smell of anything anyway :roll:

...badum tish...original enough for you?

 

[oddball]

Wake up and smell the coffee mate and try and come up with something original occasionally.

Get with the programme old timer, no-one has used coffee mate since the 70's and it doesn't smell of anything anyway :roll:

...badum tish...original enough for you?

X'Y looks like you are scraping the barrel ....the greens on current form are going down ..

 

[Steve Evans]

Wake up and smell the coffee mate and try and come up with something original occasionally.

Get with the programme old timer, no-one has used coffee mate since the 70's and it doesn't smell of anything anyway :roll:

...badum tish...original enough for you?

X'Y looks like you are scraping the barrel ....the greens on current form are going down ..

current form does not represent the season form.

 

[moles40]

Let's be realistic.Unless we start scoring more goals then we will be relegated.We have only scored twice in one game and can't keep clean sheets,so we are going to have to score two or more goals to win a match.

Can't see that happening the way Adams sets us up.How many clear cut chances or shots on target do we create a game.

It's no where near enough because as MGM said we spend most the time defending and trying to stop the other team scoring.


That's been Adams tactics since he has been here,boring negative football and hardly let the players go and express themselves and play a more attacking style.


Only thing to do would be get rid of him ,but some people still think he is doing ok,including the board.

 

[Pilgrim61]

The positives from the last two games is that we scored first...and one in the first half.

The scoring first is also a negative...as we haven't been able to hold on or build on it.

This week the clubs in our predicament in the PL, Championship and L2 all won games....by scoring two goals. If Argyle could have done that in the last two games it would have been six points, not two. The only game we've won....2 goals. The one time we've done it in 14 games.

When you look at the table we've played a lot of clubs in the top half. But when you look at the bottom half...and some of the results we've had - MK Dons, Donny - it's difficult to see four clubs we're going to better.

We're as good as 7 points adrift given the goal difference. We're virtually already three games worse off than those we need to try and overhaul.

We must get at least 2 wins on the trot. Starting this Saturday. That would put us back in the frame, but AFCW have just done that and will be full of confidence.

So yes, good results the last two: Points against those teams is very respectable. It's the 9 games that we've lost already that's the problem that finds us in this predicament.

When DA says we're moving up the table! I know where he's coming from...but we've moved nowhere and the gaps getting bigger!

 

[loyal1970]

Ok, lets be realistic.

Let's take the results out of the debate for a min.

The football is atrocious. I have no problem with "functional" football. Sometimes passing football can be boring as Fletchers team proved. We went sideways and backways. However, just like his team, we don't play penetrating football which breaks a teams defensive back line by either pace, skill and great technique on crosses.

Adams works them hard on double training sessions and yet l often wonder why. We don't see an improvement in the way the players pass, cross or shoot the ball. We are meant to be a fit team and yet we end up retreating to the half way line in games, standing off the opposition without comitting to a tackle.

How many times have we witnessed the opposition get to the edge of our box, with no pressure on them, and able to get cross after cross into the box? Or shoot, just like Saturday on the edge of the box with nobody closing that player down. Adams talks about these things like it just happened in games and yet it happened last season and continues to do so this season.

In fact, let's be realistic. When is Adams not talking BS in his post match interviews. Often saying we deserved to win the game when for the majority of the game we can't even remember a shot on target whilst the opposition has been all over us.

Without magic goals from Carey we simply don't look like scoring. That's being realistic. That's why we are going down. If you don't score you can't win games. Let's look at the last two games. Shrewsbury were there for the taking. When we did go forward they looked shaky at the back. However, Adams decided the best form of attack is to defend. So suddenly Shrewsbury weakness at the back wasn't exploited. Just our own. Yet Adams comes out at the end of the game with how we attacked them. He is delusional at times.

Then last night. A great point but again we got battered. If we keep playing a defensive game eventually the team that attacks you will score. A great block by ATS but imagine if that went in. Suddenly, in the cold light of day people will be once again frustrated by his negative tactics. Carey's two wonder goals have masked a massive problem. We still don't look like scoring goals. You can't win games if you don't attack teams. We are always worrying about what the opposition do. Not how we are going to hurt teams.

Adams negative brand of football is just garbage to watch. He may get us out of this mess but there is more to football than just winning. Not expecting to play well every week but l do expect my team to "have a go". There are times we have lost before we have even got going simply because of our playing style.

We rarely win in style. A lot of Adams wins last year were narrow 2-1 games in which we were hanging on for dear life for the 3pts when the opposition had exposed our frailties and somehow managed not convert their dominance.

So l think l am realistic. Because l've been watching this dross for 15-18 months (from the last few months of Adams first season).

I have said give him time for two reasons.

1. Whoever comes in now can't bring in his own players

2. He got us promotion and even though l think we were very fortunate, at the end of the day he still got us up. So he deserves time to turn around the results.

However, let's be honest and realistic. He may turn around the results. Yet what he won't be doing is making us play a more positive, attacking brand of football. If we get out of this mess it will be by dour, dire negative football where we are hanging on for narrow victories. It may be the football some people want to see, but it's not for me. We can't win every week so l at least want to see my football team have a go. At the moment all l see is us giving up possession game after game whilst we wait for the opposition to score even though we have put 11 men behind the ball. Our ability to somehow not press a team when they are in our own half is one of many reasons why l find Adams tactics baffling at best. I mean how can you get the ball back if you don't press? You are relying on the opposition to make a mistake.

Like l said many times, just watch his brand of football. If you still believe in Adams then your watching a totally different game from me.

:clap: :clap:

 

[rsp4]

Can't be bothered to read all this thread, but I'll be realistic.
The football is woeful, it was woeful last year but we won so we put up with my it, this year we have 7 points from 14 games and it's boring to watch.
And to be really realistic, if it wasn't for 2 Carey worldies in the last 2 games we would have lost those as well, and the fact Blackburn's finishing was atrocious (25 shots on goal)
Whether the blame lies with Adams, the budget, or both, the 'reality' is the crowds will not keep on turning up to watch this borefest!

I read the OPs statement and have to say what a load of tosh. The statement above for me im afraid.

I was a tint last year and ignored the crap football because it was a means to an end. This year is woeful. Admitted that the injuries have not helped but DAs tactics and thought process are awful.
We are screaming for 2 up front but no he relies on Carey who lets face it if he hadnt scored in the last 2 games we would have lost both.

He persists with sitting back and letting the other team play. Fir christ sake we are not playing Liverpool every week!!!

Something has to change, which it wont so we are going back to where we started.

You may have guessed I dont agree with OPs statement but its only my opinion

 

[Koala Green]

One other angle on this whole debate, is the quality of the players. Adams has previously shown that he likes to change a large number of the personnel every 6-12 months. Last year he brought in Taylor, Sarcevic, Kennedy straight into the first team, moved some people on and in the summer of course he brought in a whole new team almost.

I think we can agree he has recruited a far too many good league 2 / lower league 1 quality players, but few genuine good L1 players, however the signing of Diagourga gives me hope as he is clearly a quality League 1 midfielder. I think Adams relied on his Scottish contacts too much this summer and has come unstuck. Ness, Ainsworth, Ciftci, ATS have all been largely disappointing.

I think the following are the key players he/we would keep if we are in L1 next season

GK - Luke
Defence - Edwards, Bradley, Oscar
Midfield - Carey, Diagourga, Songo, Sarcevic possibly, Ainsworth possibly (if can prove himself)
Forwards - Taylor, Fletcher (but loan him out)

So if we can survive this season, I would expect a massive clearout which might even start in Jan with those clearly off the pace for L1 going first ( e.g. Cftici, Miller, Sokolik, Te Loeke?)

I like most of you, find his tactics are good at keeping us in the game but offer little real excitement as a fan. However if he could give us a platform for L1 and then get some better quality players suited to this league I could see us doing much better next season. However as one poster said earlier if we need 1.25 to 1.4 points a game we need to work out a way to score 2 goals per game minimum as we cannot expect clean sheets every week. And at the moment I cannot see where those 2 per game goals will come from...