Home Park Development (PCC agenda 14th December 2pm)

[IJN]

Why's that I wonder?

 

[PlymOdi]

I'm still concerned about a lack of parking, but I understand no-one cares about that.
Is the Ice Rink big enough for a team?
Will there be Argyle run food outlet/bar running all week or is it competitors/none at all? What are the details of the supporters bar?

The grandstand is adequate for now, Phase two looks nice. We don't need 50k seats just yet, just a nice clean stadium. (Perhaps there could be some ££ left over for some tidy up work around the stadium)
Conferencing, Hospitality etc. isn't popular with fans, but it brings in money...We'd be stupid to not use it. I assume all the money from this goes to the club?

People are right to ask questions but should be open-minded about what to expect. This is an upgrade on a budget with a view to increasing income...Not a new stadium. I don't think it's wrong for people to want the build to maximise club income though, and raise questions when something such as a food outlet which competes directly with the club is mentioned.

 

[IJN]

Of course people are right to ask questions, people are also right to object, particularly those that live near and fear it could upset their way of life etc.

The big question is, why do the same (Argyle related) names appear to object to everything our Chairman tries to do? Only they can answer that, I have a feeling an awful lot of people have the same thoughts as I do though.

 

[SWTT]

Cool, but I'm still fed up with seeing the impressive stage 2 representation, while no plan actually exists to get stage 2 done.

No mention of the GT bar either? I'd have thought that's a fairly substantial bit of work.

:facepalm:

The plans include phase 2 because it avoids us having to submit more planning applications if/when we can actually fund it.

It would be dishonest to present a visual representation of the final layout without them as it wouldn't indicate the full impact upon the site or the visual impact it has on the Central Park landscape. Just because they're a positive addition for Argyle fans does not necessarily make them good additions for the wider public, they have to be allowed to judge the impact for themselves.

£50 to the academy that phase 2 won't be complete within the next 10 years Ollie? I hope I'm wrong, but it smacks to me that phase 2 has only been uttered to try and mute the capacity debate, while not actually having to deliver on it.

 

[ChepstowGreen]

Cool, but I'm still fed up with seeing the impressive stage 2 representation, while no plan actually exists to get stage 2 done.

No mention of the GT bar either? I'd have thought that's a fairly substantial bit of work.

:facepalm:

The plans include phase 2 because it avoids us having to submit more planning applications if/when we can actually fund it.

It would be dishonest to present a visual representation of the final layout without them as it wouldn't indicate the full impact upon the site or the visual impact it has on the Central Park landscape. Just because they're a positive addition for Argyle fans does not necessarily make them good additions for the wider public, they have to be allowed to judge the impact for themselves.

£50 to the academy that phase 2 won't be complete within the next 10 years Ollie? I hope I'm wrong, but it smacks to me that phase 2 has only been uttered to try and mute the capacity debate, while not actually having to deliver on it.

Why on earth would Brent genuinely not be planning / hoping for reason to increase the HP capacity. You know the riches that are available should we somehow get in the Prem. An owner of a club in a city the size of Plymouth would have to be completely crazy not to be thinking of doing all they can to help us up there, if it's financially safe to do so.

Yes it may not happen, we may kick around Leagues one and two for the next ten years and not even have a sniff, but to have no planning on the 'what if scenarios', i.e mid / top half championship and pushing for promotion in a near full / sold out HP every week, would be ludicrously short sighted.

By then he would make more money from selling a well established Championship club with a good stadium with ability to further enlarge (Lyndhurst/Devonport etc let along the GS) in a pretty huge city to some Prem hungry billionaire, than he ever could selling a load of hotel rooms and some clothing. I don't think he's stupid.

 

[SWTT]

Our fan base is larger now than it was 15 years ago, but if we were to repeat the achievements of 2004 once the build is complete we'll fit 3,500 to 4,000 less fans in the stadium than before. We turned away plenty of fans from *that* QPR game, a game that I'd suggest is a major cause for the larger core support we have today.

I really like the plans for phase 2 (when I say plans, I mean the Hallett Grandstand, not the non-Argyle nonsense that's been shoehorned on the application and delayed the process). Phase 1 looks fantastic too, a major improvement that delivers the facilities the club desperately requires. To start with Phase 1 and get those facilities in place is smart. Not having any plan to finance or timescale to aim towards for Phase 2 suggests there's no actual will to get that done. It's just a pretty picture to try and make the rest of the plan a more attractive proposition.

A bit like James Brent adding his personal business ventures onto the Hallett family's Grandstand application, putting pressure on to accept A LOT of other units in order to actually see some progress on the old Mayflower. Some see it as manipulative, some see it as a clever logistical move. So far it seems to have just caused a stir among fans and delays with the bit that we're actually bothered about.

 

[NorfolkGreen]

Cool, but I'm still fed up with seeing the impressive stage 2 representation, while no plan actually exists to get stage 2 done.

No mention of the GT bar either? I'd have thought that's a fairly substantial bit of work.

:facepalm:

The plans include phase 2 because it avoids us having to submit more planning applications if/when we can actually fund it.

It would be dishonest to present a visual representation of the final layout without them as it wouldn't indicate the full impact upon the site or the visual impact it has on the Central Park landscape. Just because they're a positive addition for Argyle fans does not necessarily make them good additions for the wider public, they have to be allowed to judge the impact for themselves.

£50 to the academy that phase 2 won't be complete within the next 10 years Ollie? I hope I'm wrong, but it smacks to me that phase 2 has only been uttered to try and mute the capacity debate, while not actually having to deliver on it.

Why on earth would Brent genuinely not be planning / hoping for reason to increase the HP capacity. You know the riches that are available should we somehow get in the Prem. An owner of a club in a city the size of Plymouth would have to be completely crazy not to be thinking of doing all they can to help us up there, if it's financially safe to do so.

Yes it may not happen, we may kick around Leagues one and two for the next ten years and not even have a sniff, but to have no planning on the 'what if scenarios', i.e mid / top half championship and pushing for promotion in a near full / sold out HP every week, would be ludicrously short sighted.

By then he would make more money from selling a well established Championship club with a good stadium with ability to further enlarge (Lyndhurst/Devonport etc let along the GS) in a pretty huge city to some Prem hungry billionaire, than he ever could selling a load of hotel rooms and some clothing. I don't think he's stupid.

This is an honest question before anyone’s leaps down my throat. Does the HHP development preclude the ability to build a bigger stand to replace the Mayflower IF we were to get to the brink of the Prem?

 

[IJN]

I’m not sure you’d want to, which doesn’t answer your question.

Surely with all the new infrastructure you wouldn’t knock that down you’d bung extra tiers on the horseshoe.

 

[Mike Greening]

I’m not sure you’d want to, which doesn’t answer your question.

Surely with all the new infrastructure you wouldn’t knock that down you’d bung extra tiers on the horseshoe.

Didn't the original plans have permission for additional tiers on the horseshoe? Are these still in force and able to be used if needed? :think:

 

[SWTT]

I thought financially the suggested horseshoe tiers worked out as ludicrously expensive and unfeasible?

I'd imagine if James Brent does get his retail vision off the ground at HHP, that Argyle will eventually move away from Home Park if there were genuine visions of the Premier League.

 

[lunarjetman]

My understanding was that the longer the delay in the grandstand works, the more it is going to cost ?

If this is the case, it would have made sense to submit the planning application for the grandstand separately. This could have been dealt with quickly and without much objection.

The cost of a separate application for the grandstand would not be significant as it would not need as much supporting evidence regarding parking and transport etc. It is more or less retaining what is already there with some relatively low key conference facilities thrown in.

There is nothing to stop the club putting in a separate application for the grandstand now. The council would then be able to reach decisions on two separate applications- one for on the grandstand development and one for the grandstand development PLUS the other proposed developments.

Such an approach would be unlikely to be expensive- the Council have all the evidence from the first application. It would only require a planning application fee which could probably be negotiated down to very little.

 

[GM Vauxhall]

Cool, but I'm still fed up with seeing the impressive stage 2 representation, while no plan actually exists to get stage 2 done.

No mention of the GT bar either? I'd have thought that's a fairly substantial bit of work.

:facepalm:

The plans include phase 2 because it avoids us having to submit more planning applications if/when we can actually fund it.

It would be dishonest to present a visual representation of the final layout without them as it wouldn't indicate the full impact upon the site or the visual impact it has on the Central Park landscape. Just because they're a positive addition for Argyle fans does not necessarily make them good additions for the wider public, they have to be allowed to judge the impact for themselves.

£50 to the academy that phase 2 won't be complete within the next 10 years Ollie? I hope I'm wrong, but it smacks to me that phase 2 has only been uttered to try and mute the capacity debate, while not actually having to deliver on it.

Why on earth would Brent genuinely not be planning / hoping for reason to increase the HP capacity. You know the riches that are available should we somehow get in the Prem. An owner of a club in a city the size of Plymouth would have to be completely crazy not to be thinking of doing all they can to help us up there, if it's financially safe to do so.

Yes it may not happen, we may kick around Leagues one and two for the next ten years and not even have a sniff, but to have no planning on the 'what if scenarios', i.e mid / top half championship and pushing for promotion in a near full / sold out HP every week, would be ludicrously short sighted.

By then he would make more money from selling a well established Championship club with a good stadium with ability to further enlarge (Lyndhurst/Devonport etc let along the GS) in a pretty huge city to some Prem hungry billionaire, than he ever could selling a load of hotel rooms and some clothing. I don't think he's stupid.

Costs a LOT of money to get there though, with no guarantee of success. Is he willing to spend? Haven't seen much evidence that he is.

 

[IJN]

Did he ever say he would? I think JB’s strategy of spending what the club can afford is well enough documented.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

I’m not sure you’d want to, which doesn’t answer your question.

Surely with all the new infrastructure you wouldn’t knock that down you’d bung extra tiers on the horseshoe.

Didn't the original plans have permission for additional tiers on the horseshoe? Are these still in force and able to be used if needed? :think:

To add an additional tier to the horseshoe, the footprint would need to be enlarged to the rear of the stands to incorporate additional concourses, toilets and staircases etc. None of that space is being encroached into by the current plans so I guess it would be possible after planning acceptance.

Of course once in the EPL you'd expect the club would want to incorporate Individual box suites which are currently priced upwards of £25,000 per year at Prem clubs. Where would they be best housed?

 

[GM Vauxhall]

Did he ever say he would? I think JB’s strategy of spending what the club can afford is well enough documented.

No, he didn't. Which is why I disagree with the suggestion that he'd be likely to put his hand in his pocket to pay for a push on the Premier League.